Looking to get in the game.

[BigJon]

To introduce myself, people call me Big Jon. I have a degree in architecture and a love for the arts. Through school I have taken quite a chunk of art classes and always found myself drawn to the sculpting side. I like to work with my hands, to this point I have tried a lot of medias wood and clay being the two main ones. I've got the patients to learn the craft I just need some advise about the proper gear to have. Bare in mind I'm not rich and start up is going to be slow and advice on cost efficient gear and techniques would be much appreciated.

My thoughts are to make Pendants and Pipes starting out. Bigger stuff as a i progress. As far as business i would like to make enough to pay for the habit at first and if I'm decent at it (not saying that I will be) maybe make some extra cash on the side.

I am aware that first and for most I need a solid torch but I cant splurge for a carlile quite yet.
- So this is my initial thought : GTT Bobcat - http://www.mountainglass.com/GTT-Bobcat.html

Kiln Next: Open to suggestions: Try to keep it economical.

Tools: Suggestions on the basic tools ill need to craft the above

Glass: best place to get it or maybe better said that most reliable.

Marketing of what i make. There are a few places where i am from (West Virginia) but im sure the internet: via etsy and such could help in the aspect. A few strategies would be nice if you have any to spare.

I apologize, I am sure you get these post all the time but its better to ask then guess. I appreciate your help and thanks in advance.

[hellawacked]

Just start reading you'll find out everything you need.

[Amorphous]

Safety first! There is a high potential for injury and damage if you don't understand and mitigate lampworking safety concerns, even though it may cost more. You only get 1 set of eyes and lungs (well, I guess you could get transplants, but who wants to do that??) and you probably don't want to have your shop/home go kaboom, especially with you or anyone else inside it.

minimum safety list
eye protection
ventilation (lung protection)
fire proof work surfaces (counters, wall in front of torch, floors)
fire extinguisher
propane storage outside of work room

where are you geographically? It might be beneficial to take a class, even if it's in soft glass (like bead making). In a class you can usually see and try different torches, tools, kilns, etc. Also, the instructors and probably other students will be able to give you some advice on getting started, equipment, etc.

[Greymatter Glass]

we need a wizard for our weekly game....


oh... damn I should really read posts before i respond to the subject/title....

[Mecha]

Nobody wants to go through the early levels as a wizard. They are hard to keep alive and don't get all that useful until much later in any series of campaigns.

Now psionics, that's where it's at. Pretty bad ass right out of the gate.

[BigJon]

Safety first! There is a high potential for injury and damage if you don't understand and mitigate lampworking safety concerns, even though it may cost more. You only get 1 set of eyes and lungs (well, I guess you could get transplants, but who wants to do that??) and you probably don't want to have your shop/home go kaboom, especially with you or anyone else inside it.

minimum safety list
eye protection
ventilation (lung protection)
fire proof work surfaces (counters, wall in front of torch, floors)
fire extinguisher
propane storage outside of work room

where are you geographically? It might be beneficial to take a class, even if it's in soft glass (like bead making). In a class you can usually see and try different torches, tools, kilns, etc. Also, the instructors and probably other students will be able to give you some advice on getting started, equipment, etc.

Geographically. East Coast, West Virginia. Although we do have some of the bigger old style glass blowing like blinko, there as far as i can tell not a lot of oppourtunity for bench torching. Of course safety first. My space will be in my garage with and fan venting out of the window. Eye wear is handled my uncle has a set of welding glasses that he is going to give. Tank storage will be chained to the outside wall with over hang to prevent initial weathering. Table is wood but im going to invest into a steel sheet to lay beneath it.

I have watched a substantial amount of videos, and ready many many how top's but from experience there is no better learning tool then doing it yourself.

[Amorphous]

have you melted any glass yet? Please don't invest until you get a chance to actually melt some glass first. Trust me, you WILL learn a lot from taking even 1 class.

[BigJon]

have you melted any glass yet? Please don't invest until you get a chance to actually melt some glass first. Trust me, you WILL learn a lot from taking even 1 class.

Nothing thus far. I guess i could buy some soft glass and just use a basic blow torch. i have one that has hosed attachments.

[Amorphous]

Good luck and have fun. I look forward to seeing your work on this site someday.

[Greymatter Glass]

Yeah, our cleric initially wanted to be a psionisist... but we weren't going anywhere without a cleric... a 3 player campaign is hard enough, and damn near impossible without a healer.

As for low level, that's not a huge deal, we usually start somewhere around lvl 7 or so, which gives everyone more options.

Also, we roll 3.5, not 4... fuck 4.

[istandalone24/7]

no dude....welding glasses won't cut the soda glare. you need dydi's minimum. for boro, shade 3 w/dydi is preferred.

[Mecha]

Yeah, a cleric is definitely useful.

Never understood the edged weapon rule with them. I guess smashing someone's head open with a war hammer is somehow holier than running them through. Go figure.

Everyone in our party wanted to be a psionisist when the handbook came out in 2E back in the day.

[PyroChixRock]

Natural born cleric, at your service. :D

[Bo Diddles]

Fuck I wish I had geekier friends while I was growing up.

[Greymatter Glass]

we should get a glass blower campaign started on one of the d20 sites, anyone a good GM?

lol

[Bo Diddles]

Can I be the dude who has no idea what's going on and keeps fucking shit up but eventually unwittingly wins the game by accident? I really feel I could nail that role.

[BigJon]

Yeah, our cleric initially wanted to be a psionisist... but we weren't going anywhere without a cleric... a 3 player campaign is hard enough, and damn near impossible without a healer.

As for low level, that's not a huge deal, we usually start somewhere around lvl 7 or so, which gives everyone more options.

Also, we roll 3.5, not 4... fuck 4.

Be cool if you helped rather then spamming my post with this non-sense?

[Joemess]

okay, I'll help.

1. Take a class
2. Take another class or rent torch time
3. Read about what you need on this and other site
4. Pick up Contemporary Lampworking 1&2 Volume 3 is good but you really need 1&2
5. Develop more focused questions. The initial question you asked is tantamount to saying "tell me everything you have learned over the years so I do not have to go through that process"
6. Get a subscription to Glassline or The Flow and read even more.

Also... This is an expensive hobby. The "find somewhere to rent time even if you have to drive" is great advice. Watching a youtube viddy of someone torching is deceptive. It looks easy. It looks natural.... Its not. What you do not see when someone makes a video what you do not see are the hours of learning, misshapen product, and scrap in the glass bucket that did not turn out the way you wanted.

Finally, if you are dead set on getting started, do not buy color (except maybe a cobalt) Fume is your friend. It does really cool things and clear is realatively cheap. You are going to make a ton of crap before you start turning out things you want your name on. If you are truley serious about this, I would advise against selling items that are sub-par. But its your name...

The guys above are just bustin your chops a little and having fun. Your post is a recurring theme on this forum and through careful searched you can find the answers to most of them.

[TlkQ]

Be cool if you helped rather then spamming my post with this non-sense?

Be cool if you used the search function and didn't ask the exact same questions every noob on the planet asks.

Search function.

Search Function.

SEARCH MOTHER FUCKING FUNCTION!!!!!!!!!

There are easily 90 billion threads identical to yours. Go look at some of those and see what happens around here when people beg us to hold their hand. This is incredibly mild actually. Would you like a sammich?




I apologize, I am sure you get these post all the time but its better to ask then guess. I appreciate your help and thanks in advance.


Yep. We sure do. And no, it's better to search and do your own damn research than expect us to hand it all to you.

[misled youth]

Be cool if you helped rather then spamming my post with this non-sense?

would be cool if you did a little research...

[LooseSeal Baller]

D&D non-sense? glass master 20 sided die. watch out this grey matter dude will cast a spell on your ass

[BigJon]

okay, I'll help.

1. Take a class
2. Take another class or rent torch time
3. Read about what you need on this and other site
4. Pick up Contemporary Lampworking 1&2 Volume 3 is good but you really need 1&2
5. Develop more focused questions. The initial question you asked is tantamount to saying "tell me everything you have learned over the years so I do not have to go through that process"
6. Get a subscription to Glassline or The Flow and read even more.

Also... This is an expensive hobby. The "find somewhere to rent time even if you have to drive" is great advice. Watching a youtube viddy of someone torching is deceptive. It looks easy. It looks natural.... Its not. What you do not see when someone makes a video what you do not see are the hours of learning, misshapen product, and scrap in the glass bucket that did not turn out the way you wanted.

Finally, if you are dead set on getting started, do not buy color (except maybe a cobalt) Fume is your friend. It does really cool things and clear is realatively cheap. You are going to make a ton of crap before you start turning out things you want your name on. If you are truley serious about this, I would advise against selling items that are sub-par. But its your name...

The guys above are just bustin your chops a little and having fun. Your post is a recurring theme on this forum and through careful searched you can find the answers to most of them.

thanks for some actual advise, that appreciated. I maybe misstated my initial post it wasn't meant to skip the process. So i am sorry that it "offended" others. I was looking for advice on the actual product to buy being on a budget. Ive done a fair amount of research on what i need i am just not positive where i can ( and i hate to say this like its going to sound but i dont know how really else to) save or not spend some money intially. Not easy coming up with 2500 bucks for a decent setup. thanks again ill figure the rest out on my own.

[TlkQ]

There are a million threads on this forum from people just like you asking the exact same question.

If you're going to cheap out anywhere make sure it's not on ventilation. Being a tightwad with tools will just make it that much harder to learn. Being a tightwad with safety will kill you.

[yinzer]

this grey matter dude...
This.

[hellawacked]

thanks for some actual advise, that appreciated. I maybe misstated my initial post it wasn't meant to skip the process. So i am sorry that it "offended" others. I was looking for advice on the actual product to buy being on a budget. Ive done a fair amount of research on what i need i am just not positive where i can ( and i hate to say this like its going to sound but i dont know how really else to) save or not spend some money intially. Not easy coming up with 2500 bucks for a decent setup. thanks again ill figure the rest out on my own.

The first tech you must learn is to use the search function. It's everyone here's favorite tech. You'll see the irony once you start using it.

[BigJon]

The first tech you must learn is to use the search function. It's everyone here's favorite tech. You'll see the irony once you start using it.

now that it was brought to my attention, Ive been galloping through a pleather of knowledge. I honestly don't use forums that often and didn't even see the search until i looked for it. My bad good sir's and madam's. I am a youtube whore, so i think im on the brink of exhausting the videos, i think im to the point of doing just don't quite have enough saved up to pull the trigger. Unfortunately i haven't met any blowers in my area so i don't know where to even begin looking. I would love to give it a try b4 i dip right into it but i dont see that happening.

[LooseSeal Baller]

. I would love to give it a try b4 i dip right into it.

very important. keep looking find some lessons

[BigJon]

Just to show im not completely full of shit. (I know its not glass =( ) This is my first attempt at a wooden spoon. with a carved recess on the side. Recess isnt finished yet and the piece as a whole is far from done. This is 2x2 stock Red Oak.

- i have a lot more adjusting and carving to do, I'm not the first to do it, but around here its the first I've seen that goes with the contemporary style.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f235/pieze/IMG_1873.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/pieze/media/IMG_1873.jpg.html)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f235/pieze/IMG_1874.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/pieze/media/IMG_1874.jpg.html)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f235/pieze/IMG_1875.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/pieze/media/IMG_1875.jpg.html)

[yinzer]

Pleather...its like leather but its not.

[Greymatter Glass]

Damnit, now all I can think about in Na in a pleather cat suit....



So anyways... to answer the OP question:

A GTT Bobcat is a great starting torch, but if you want to save some money a Nortel Minor will melt glass just as well for several bucks cheaper.

Welding goggles will not really help you much... it will protect your eyes but it does not filter out sodium flare.

Ventilation is critical, no one here will give you any useful advice on the subject, you just have to know what you're doing. You probably don't, and learning is all but impossible. You'll do it wrong. You have to have it right or you will die a horrible death. Not really, or not probably, but suffice to say, the search function will help you immensely. ventilation is important, don't under think it, but don't over think it.

buy some glass, buy some color, hell it doesn't matter the first $100 you spend on materials will go in the trash (or in your mothers collection of amazingly beautiful things her very talented son made).

in fact, to get an idea of how frustrating and expensive glass blowing is in the beginning go ahead and whip out about $100 in cash and burn it. Just set 5 20's on fire in your drive way and walk away like you don't give a fuck.

I'm 100% serious. If you can't afford to set a $100 bill on fire you can't afford to blow glass.
Ok don't really burn money, but you have to accept that you will waste hundreds of dollars before you start to make any of it back.

unless you think you're a bad ass and can teach everyone you know how to blow glass 3 days after starting like SOME people do.... don't take lessons from those people, they will only rip you off.


As for "general" question like "what (insert company/tool/item here) is best?" you have to consider that's like going on a general automotive forum and asking what car is best.... there is no BEST, just several opinions backed more often by sentiment or lack of comparison than anything objective like broad experience or numbers....

That said, AIM and Paragon both make decent entry level kilns that you will hate in a year or two but be stuck with forever... ABR, GlassCraft, Mountain Glass Art, ArtCo, Arrow Springs, Wale Apparatus, Frantz, and Sundance are all established suppliers that have over-all good reputations in the lampworking industry. Pick one close to you, probably MGA, shipping glass is a bitch. Beginners tools... Some of the suppliers sell "kits" full of tools you'll mostly never use... I would buy a pair of 10 or 12" tweezers, a 2x3 or bigger graphite paddle, a 6x6 graphite pad, a small octagonal reamer (brass or graphite), a graphite pencil reamer, a 5/8" bowl push if you want to make pipes, a tungsten pick, and a 1x12" graphite rod. Buy cheap tools, you'll break them or burn them before you know how to use them so no sense in blowing big money on nicer tools until you know you need them and know how to treat them - graphite is fragile and it burns, brass melts, they all get warped and worn out.

If you have extra cash you might consider a pair of claw holders, flat mashers, a torch mounted L marver, and anything else that looks fun.

If you want to make marbles get a cheap marble mold, usually the cheap ones have like a 3/4 and 1" mold on one side and a few smaller ones on the otehr side... that will work fine for now.

Go to Kmart and get a large pair of stainless steel kitchen tongs.

And be glad I typed all this out...

You REALLY don't wanna see what happens when I spam a post.



....


now back to Na in a pleather cat suit... no wait....

So yeah, anyone wanna play online D&D? :P

[misled youth]

a wooden buttplug? splinters...
nah, just kidding. carving is fun. be sure to post the finished product.


you got quite lucky with doug's post.

i dont remember if it was mentioned but probably the most important thing about glass is PATIENCE and TIME

[LooseSeal Baller]

mmm, I can taste that nice wood taste just thinking about it.......
...
.
.
.
...
.....then it will take a big shit on you right before school.....

[dnug42]

well, cant ad much to whut doug said...he is know as "bigdoug" round these parts...
vapor pens are now taking over the world anyhow, so you might want to reconsider your choice of medium...
but that said- look for used equipment, glass sales and stuff like that, this site has many levels of benefits...you can buy stuff from member and venders hear about sales deals and events...and their is the people connection- someone might be in your area- and can help ya get going. good luck and have fun!

[BigJon]

Damnit, now all I can think about in Na in a pleather cat suit....



So anyways... to answer the OP question:

A GTT Bobcat is a great starting torch, but if you want to save some money a Nortel Minor will melt glass just as well for several bucks cheaper.

Welding goggles will not really help you much... it will protect your eyes but it does not filter out sodium flare.

Ventilation is critical, no one here will give you any useful advice on the subject, you just have to know what you're doing. You probably don't, and learning is all but impossible. You'll do it wrong. You have to have it right or you will die a horrible death. Not really, or not probably, but suffice to say, the search function will help you immensely. ventilation is important, don't under think it, but don't over think it.

buy some glass, buy some color, hell it doesn't matter the first $100 you spend on materials will go in the trash (or in your mothers collection of amazingly beautiful things her very talented son made).

in fact, to get an idea of how frustrating and expensive glass blowing is in the beginning go ahead and whip out about $100 in cash and burn it. Just set 5 20's on fire in your drive way and walk away like you don't give a fuck.

I'm 100% serious. If you can't afford to set a $100 bill on fire you can't afford to blow glass.
Ok don't really burn money, but you have to accept that you will waste hundreds of dollars before you start to make any of it back.

unless you think you're a bad ass and can teach everyone you know how to blow glass 3 days after starting like SOME people do.... don't take lessons from those people, they will only rip you off.


As for "general" question like "what (insert company/tool/item here) is best?" you have to consider that's like going on a general automotive forum and asking what car is best.... there is no BEST, just several opinions backed more often by sentiment or lack of comparison than anything objective like broad experience or numbers....

That said, AIM and Paragon both make decent entry level kilns that you will hate in a year or two but be stuck with forever... ABR, GlassCraft, Mountain Glass Art, ArtCo, Arrow Springs, Wale Apparatus, Frantz, and Sundance are all established suppliers that have over-all good reputations in the lampworking industry. Pick one close to you, probably MGA, shipping glass is a bitch. Beginners tools... Some of the suppliers sell "kits" full of tools you'll mostly never use... I would buy a pair of 10 or 12" tweezers, a 2x3 or bigger graphite paddle, a 6x6 graphite pad, a small octagonal reamer (brass or graphite), a graphite pencil reamer, a 5/8" bowl push if you want to make pipes, a tungsten pick, and a 1x12" graphite rod. Buy cheap tools, you'll break them or burn them before you know how to use them so no sense in blowing big money on nicer tools until you know you need them and know how to treat them - graphite is fragile and it burns, brass melts, they all get warped and worn out.

If you have extra cash you might consider a pair of claw holders, flat mashers, a torch mounted L marver, and anything else that looks fun.

If you want to make marbles get a cheap marble mold, usually the cheap ones have like a 3/4 and 1" mold on one side and a few smaller ones on the otehr side... that will work fine for now.

Go to Kmart and get a large pair of stainless steel kitchen tongs.

And be glad I typed all this out...

You REALLY don't wanna see what happens when I spam a post.



....


now back to Na in a pleather cat suit... no wait....

So yeah, anyone wanna play online D&D? :P

thanks, was a lot of help. Purchasing Torch, Glasses and some practice glass this pay day and hopefully a kiln and some tools next payday. I got a sweat hookup on some regs from a friend i work with that used to run a welding company. Just a curious question can you use acetylene reg with propane if not ill have to buy a propane reg but i am getting oxygen reg super cheap, as well as good amount of hose. As for now ventilation is going to be a high speed fan blowing out the window in the garage as well as the the garage door opened. Im hoping that will be sufficient for now.



a wooden buttplug? splinters...
nah, just kidding. carving is fun. be sure to post the finished product.


you got quite lucky with doug's post.

i dont remember if it was mentioned but probably the most important thing about glass is PATIENCE and TIME

i posted up some updated pictures on another topic of the wood piece. its not wonderful but work in progress.


well, cant ad much to whut doug said...he is know as "bigdoug" round these parts...
vapor pens are now taking over the world anyhow, so you might want to reconsider your choice of medium...
but that said- look for used equipment, glass sales and stuff like that, this site has many levels of benefits...you can buy stuff from member and venders hear about sales deals and events...and their is the people connection- someone might be in your area- and can help ya get going. good luck and have fun!

thanks for the advice. Currently looking to pick up a GTT bobcat as my starter torch and i figure its better to just purchase the tools new since graphite wears down but if you know anyone around the area (close enough that shipping wouldn't cost a small fortune) that has some scrap glass for practice i can pick up for a decent price, i would be down to get that.