Distributors and price break down

[BORO]

I saw talk of distributors selling your glass vs. you selling wholesale vs. you selling retail .

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?50706-Returned-home-with-a-full-case

It needs a new post ,so people can find it in the future .

THE MAIN THING IS>>>> When is it going to make you more money to use a distributor , vs selling wholesale. ( or selling retail , online , and have to deal with people , emails , shipping. )


I was looking for some one to break it down ,

I know it is easy to have everything sold , and not have to think about sales , and that is worth it's weight .
It just feels like I would have to make a lot more product , to off set the % I give up .

10 , 10$ spoons , I sell them wholesale , I get 100$ . I sell them with some one taking 30% , now I get 70$

was it worth 30$ ? how much production before it is worth the %?

If I put my 10 spoons online , I can get 18$ or more , but have to ship , and 10 spoons , I get 180$ plus shipping ( if I want ) but now I take time to pack each one/ship/email .( this is some of what I do ,I sell custom 50$ spoons, and I am back ordered . ) The down side is time to post/ship , and if no one buys them , you are broke still ..


I have friends that only use distributors . They have kids ,and blow full time. ( husband and wife ) I can not get over the production they run. She can fill a aim (9169 to the brim ,no more air space ,) kiln with full color spoons in one shift . I can not come close . Plus they are super burned out after 20 years of this work. They have no choice , no other buyer , and bills, and kids .( full color spoons for 8$! and 60 to 80 hours a week for each person.)


So what I am trying to say is........ Is it just the piece of mind , all you glass is sold , that makes it worth it ? I don't have the ability to sit down and hammer out dozens of similar product. It is not for me .

When is it worth it ? Is it as simple as ...... if I give 30% to home boy ,I need to make 30% more glass to cover the cost , and make the same in the end?

I just don't know of any production blower that could take a 30% (even 25%) hit , and make it up with more product .

( Husband and wife can do it , but they are not normal , and they are burnt out . )

Is a lathe a different story ? You can make more $ per hour , but over head is bigger, this offsets the % to the distributor ?

[Eric S]

if you can consistently sell all your glass to local shops or customers, a dist. is probably not for you. If you find yourself at times with lots of unsold glass and have to travel farther and farther to sell it... If you take a whole day trip to go and sell glass in another town (for me thats 3 hours away) then I have 60$ in gas for my truck, plus an entire day less of production. That adds up. if the sales are good, its worth it, but if I dont make good sales its not worth it, and you also have to have a large amount of glass saved up for the shops to browse through and pick what they want, and you are likely to bring 50% home with you.

One other thing to consider with distributors, is that you offer a price to your local stores that is likely to get them to buy, because you need the sale. The distro's have lots and lots of stores, in different markets, and they may well be able to sell your glass for a higher wholesale price than you get. If you sell your spoons for 10$ wholesale, you dont have to necessarily give them to the distro for 7, because they can probably find shops to pay $12, so you should be getting 8-9. still less than 10$, and you have to pack and ship vs. throwing them in a case and walking into a shop.

one of the biggest reasons I stopped dealing with a distro was the wait for getting paid. They expect net 30 days, from the time they receive the shipment, to the time they send the check. Add 3 days to get the glass from you to them, and 3 days for the check to get from them to you, and its often 35+ days between the time you have $1500 worth of glass ready to sell and the time you actually get paid for it. If you make different items for different distro's, or have stores that you ship to as well, so that you always have a few packages out on a rotating schedule its not so bad, but if you just have 1 person you ship to and they are not prompt on payment, it sucks.

[ROGUE]

I think the biggest thing that made sense to me in my thread was the fact that I wouldn't lose time getting off the torch to go sell. So it's possible that you could make up the percentage in the gained torch time. That's where I saw the major benefit.

[Eric S]

I think the biggest thing that made sense to me in my thread was the fact that I wouldn't lose time getting off the torch to go sell. So it's possible that you could make up the percentage in the gained torch time. That's where I saw the major benefit.

yah, but that still varies based on how big your Distro orders are and how much you sell at shops. it takes more time to bubble wrap and package and then ship it than it does to throw it in a case and run to a store and sell it. if you have to go all over town to sell, or to another town, then of course packing and shipping could be faster.

[BORO]

I did not even think about shipping to your distributor . That sucks. We are about 2.5 hours drive to burlington vt. , where my friends bring most of there glass. Once every 2 weeks or so..... They drive almost 5 hours to outside philly with big orders as well. Paid on the spot . Driven in a honda civic so gas is cheap. I think they are crazy. ( who a I to judge , they make more money than me )

He just told me he did ship , glass broke , then the money was late. Now they drive .

It is a fine line between working more hours for your $ , or marketing for more $ on top of your torch work .

As I get better at glass blowing , I see my glass fetching more money , more and more it's selling its self.

I would have never known this if I only sold to distro's/wholesale. Haveing to fill production all the time , I could make the worlds best spoon/or simple bub. I would never know if my skills could be doing more for me. The husband and wife team ,they are top notch , (they were in the pipe classic , she won a flame off .)
They make the glass dreams are made of , but production orders to fill .

Wholesale ,....... put my paycheck in a shop owners hand ,know they will double it. At the same time hope he had a good day ,so I can eat .good luck asking for more over time.

Distributor ,....... work 30% harder for the same pay , minus the marketing ,and wholesale.

Market yourself ,...... work harder than the other two (people on the internet are crazy ) but the sky is the limit as far as price per piece . Get feedback, and that product people want .

If you own your own retail shop , and blow glass, we all know this is the ticket. ( you know who you are )

I think a mix is the answer for most full timers. Have a few close shops , for when you are in a pinch . Have one or two things that are big $ for your time spent , and sell them to a distributor . Spend the rest of the time online , selling what you really want to make. The internet is the fastest way to get the most eyes on your work , someone somewhere wants it if it's nice .

Rouge , more torch time ,costs more $ in glass and gas. Do you feel like you spend too little time on the torch now?

[RamblezMarblez]

Your time is worth more than that...

[p.j.]

i've never sold to a distributor, and have been at it for 15 years. if you stuff is good enough and you make every piece that the stores sell, you wont have to go far to sell glass.....UNLESS you live where there are a bazillion other blowers.

[T-Rex]

You have the power to negotiate with the distributors! If you don't like their terms, tell them what terms will work for you and if they aren't cool with it, then move on.

This 30-day payment thing sounds retarded. Typically when you place an order with a company, you get charged right away. BEFORE they send it out, before it's even MADE in many cases.

How weird would it be if you were allowed to order things online, then not pay for them until 30 days after you have them? What company would put up with that? Why should you?

[ROGUE]

Rouge , more torch time ,costs more $ in glass and gas. Do you feel like you spend too little time on the torch now?

The price of the supplies is negligible if you consider a whole day lost to only sales. A full day of hollow work I will go through $30 glass and maybe $3 in gas. I only pay $9.50 for O2 and $15 for LP. If I produce a normal day, 15 spoons or 10 hammers at wholesale that's $150 - $33 in supplies = $117 - $29.25 for commission = $87.75

I know myself, if I go out and sell I won't be coming home and getting back on the torch. So if I pay a local distributor(that's the plan) commission once a week it would look like this

$585(five days of work) - $146.25(commission) = $438.75

If I do the sale myself

$468(four days of work) - $20(gas and traveling) = $438

and no I did not try to manipulate the numbers to get the to happen, that was pure coincidence lol

Now of course I could work an extra day to make up the missed day, or any number of things, but I'm trying an scenario with all things being equal.

I probably over simplified this, but it looks pretty close.

[Necoras]

Ouch, those numbers hurt. If you never take a vacation you barely hit $21k before income and self employment taxes, medicare, social security, etc. Even if it's 100% under the table cash, that's just straight up painful.

[ROGUE]

Well, I'm just starting out. I think I should be able to manage a little better in the future, I hope.

As bad as that sounds, that's more than 50% of the jobs that was sent to me by Florida veteran unemployment services.

[BORO]

+1 to rouge for the showing one option , and price break down.

When I first started , I would have jumped at the chance to make steady money .Agreed you could always go hump a 40 hour week for just as little , and not have anything to show for your time.

If it can work for you , go for it . Just don't put your self in the position where you only fill orders , and hate the work.

[ROGUE]

Just don't put your self in the position where you only fill orders , and hate the work.

That possibility already scares me. I promised myself in the beginning I would not do this for money, and here I am just a little way down the road making art for money. That doesn't thrill me.

[BORO]

Not art for money , art as a lifestyle . Its not what you are doing for money , its what you don't have to do for your money . (not work for some one ) You are getting paid to learn a skill only gained with time. If I did not need my glass to make me $ ,way more of my time would be spent doing something other than lampwork. My skills would suffer .

If you don't have to stress over "going to work today " . if you don't have to stress over "where to sell my glass" today . You are doing pretty good.

I don't know too many people that can give me a honest answer to " where the money goes." Or what will or wont let you survive on your own. That says a lot about you. ( and your ability to do this.)

Seems like everyone gets help from someone. (I could not be here if it was not for my lady ,but no one gave her a thing.) For the ones that have done it all on there own , I feel your pain. For me , it became easier over time as skills catch up to ideas.

[GlassAlias]

This 30-day payment thing sounds retarded. Typically when you place an order with a company, you get charged right away. BEFORE they send it out, before it's even MADE in many cases.

How weird would it be if you were allowed to order things online, then not pay for them until 30 days after you have them? What company would put up with that? Why should you?

This is no different than me setting up an account with my local welding shop and them sending me a monthly bill for the oxygen ive recieved between the 30 days since the previous bill.

@BoRo

How comfortable do you feel sending off your glass to a distributor and not getting paid for it immediately? This is probably the first real hurdle. If it were me I'd be nervous as hell about it. Id probably lose alot of sleep in those 30 days.

[loydb]

In the real business world, Net 30 is pretty standard. If you absolutely can't deal with the hit to cash flow, offer a 5% discount if paid within 7 days.

[BORO]

Just for the record , I have never been able to commit to a distributor . I know a few , and have been asked by others If I wanted to put a piece they saw into a catalog . or if I will send stuff to champs ect.

Only money up front from the distributors I talked to .( low $ per piece ) I never could figure out when It was worth the $ , and here we are.

Never had the guts , or commitment to have some one waiting on production .( another issue with anxiety )

For ten years , I just survived ( or less than that , thanks to my lady ,I am still here. ) She is the only reason I can make what I make . She let me go big , try and fail , make what I want. I would just Wholesale my stuff for the standard 1/2 price to shops.(or go on phish tour )

I can't run prodo all day , my mind does not work like that. If I was in a big shop ,around others , I can do more of a production thing. ( anxiety makes me work hard so I don't look like a slacker )

I begged the old lady for a year , to help market myself .( she has a marketing deg. ) She manages the local ski resort year round , and pulls 60 + hour weeks ,( and cooks good and is sexy as hell ,I am REAL lucky ). Finally we started with etsy 1.5 years ago. (I was there for operation pipe dreams , online sales?! State to state shipping? But everyone is doing it?)

Sales were slow at first , accounts were frozen for carb shots , more than once , even more than 3 times. I lost an account with 100's of sales . I was super nice to the etsy mods, and they let me open a new store. Still lost the feedback but who cares

After the first 3 month , I had people asking for stuff that was on my sold already page . So I started posting "custom work" ads. What do you want? I make stuff that looks like this.............

NO pull slides , no water , lots of reasons for not selling all that I make on that sight . If some one grabs a "custom" from etsy , I pay etsy like I should. If people ask me for stuff that is not allowed on etsy , I tell them no go. I also tell them to check me out on facebook . Because of facebook ,I have a list of emails for orders , people in line . I can pick and choose my work , I can say no to crazy ideas , or crazy people. However , people online are crazy . Most think they got robbed , then are pumped when I am done . 1/2 $ up front ,4 to 6 week wait , 1/2 at the end before shipping (after pics are sent to the buyer).I keep bringing up my prices , and people don't seem to care.

I have never had anyone not love what I made them . I tend to go overboard ( anxiety ) to make sure. This hurts my bottom line , A LOT .

The only other thing that I have to deal with now is............ My lady will place ads on etsy , sells , and take the $ , I have to get to work..........( custom spoons she can make as nice as I can .....cough ) Or she takes some crazy order , and $ for the order , and I have to push the limits of what I can do . ( only lost 3 big things this last year , I saved 80% of one , lost almost all of the other two. ) I run out of torch heat , and kiln size often. I have never made better $ , and I see a better product all the time .

[ROGUE]

Dude, make an account at Artfire.com you can even imprt your Esty account. Artfire doesn't have any of the rules etsy does.

[BORO]

Trying to keep track of all records , receipts ,what, where ,when , for taxes. I don't need any more confusion .

I feel like etsy, is like ebay . Its well known , by people everywhere . I don't know what art fire does , but the new store has been visited by just under 100,000 people in less than a year . 100% feed back rate (50% left feed back ) and over 200 sales , 40 % are sales over 125$ , the rest are the dreaded "custom spoon" . A large part of my etsy sales are not functional glass. This is a big reason to stay.(for me that is) The biggest spenders have come from etsy .

I could walk away from the etsy gig, and do facebook/word of mouth/other sight .I have all the work I can handle. But who is to say what just marketing alone on that sight will do for me. Sometimes I mark up nice stuff on etsy just to be seen. (with in reason , not $100,000)

I am here now , thanks to them. Its easy to follow the rules if you know . It has not cost me much , just my time.

I pay way more to pay-pal , they don't even want my business. I try not to use them as much as I can.

[istandalone24/7]

Boro, you've got the glassblower's dream come true!
i REALLY need to get back up there soon. not being able to drive in NY state sucks, but i think if i go north up to Rutland and just head west on rt 4 i'll be ok....it takes longer but is in VT for 98% of the drive. i'll be in touch soon....i've got a new style marble i'm working on, has gotten great reviews over on FB/marble collectors page but i want to try it on a CC!