Looking for info on Nortel Major versus Red Max torch...

[Peej Glassworks]

So I'm in the market for my first torch after having used my brothers Red Rocket for a while now and I can't decide between the Major and the Red Max. The only real difference I can see is that the Major is a square configuration versus the circular on the Red Max and the Red Max comes ready for a foot pedal where the Major needs a little tweaking and 2 more needle valves for a foot pedal...

Does anybody have any input? Oh and I would be getting the pre-mix of either and using it for boro. Any other info you need just let me know.

[Jiggy Boro]

I would advise against the premix. The advantage to the premix is the detachable heads, But its so loud. I can barley hear my music with an oxidizing flame. I would have gotten a surface mix top torch if I had the choice. I would get the red max. I got a used one about a year ago and shes been capable of doing anything I want it to do. But it gets kinda old. I think it would get especially old with you pretty fast because youve worked on a torch with a center and outer fire. Witch is what I am looking for here soon.

[2wheeler]

Get a midrange instead of the major if you go the cheaper route. I've owned all 3. I use my redmax handtorch a lot on the lathe. Puts out a lot more fire power than one would think. You should be able to find a nice used redmax for 350-375.. I would suggest a wtb thread in the glassifieds if your serious.

[RioGlass]

As a former red max user I recommend over major. Something with the square head just didn't do me right. I also have used both pre-mix and surface. Prefer surface. If it comes down to deciding between max and mid+ I would take +.

Happy torching.

[kbinkster]

Just about every person I've seen post about going from a Major to a Red Max posts that they prefer the Red Max. There must be a reason why Nortel made a conversion kit available. :)

[istandalone24/7]

As a former red max user I recommend over major. Something with the square head just didn't do me right. I also have used both pre-mix and surface. Prefer surface. If it comes down to deciding between max and mid+ I would take +.

Happy torching.

I 100% agree with this statement. the redmax is decent, but it sucks oxy and still produces way too much radiant heat ime.
i can do the same things with the midrange, which takes a little longer but it's easier on the oxygen. also a pinpoint flame isn't easy to achieve with the redmax, but i can get a decent pinner flame on a midrange.

[truedef]

I have a major and I can barely hear my music when i've got it ripped wide open. If I could have I would have bought the redmax instead of the major, but it does everything I need it to for a beginner.

[chillrelaxglass]

buy the redmax its not much more and after a week of owning a midrange you will kick your self for not droping the extra on a redmax.

[istandalone24/7]

^ i don't agree with that. you should be able to do all the same things on a midrange as on a redmax. and if oxy is a pain in the ass to get (don't know where the OP is from) or you have to use concentrators, the midrange is the better choice.

though i must say, if you can afford to get a two stage torch (inner, outer fire), get that. think bravo or similar. you can get nicer colors with a two stage, as you have more options for oxidizing flames (you can run your centerfire with the outer oxy on, or run the outerfire with the inner oxy on) that some boro colors really need.

[chillrelaxglass]

Or just buy a redmax save up some more cash and mount a lynx on top ;)

[TlkQ]

Outerfire with inner oxy on?? You should never run just the outers on any concentric torch design. That's the fast way to melting your innerfire shut.

Get the Redmax with the surface topper. It doesn't put off as much radiant heat as the square thing, thus more heat going into your glass.

Or say fuck it and get a Phantom. Whichever.

[istandalone24/7]

ok by bad.....i thought it was ok to do that. i know someone who works on cc who does just that (but of course that doesn't make it good for the torch), but i doubt for very long. insert foot in mouth.

[gypsea]

There is a mountain of collected info in the torch room:

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?44-Torch-Room

[Eric S]

Outerfire with inner oxy on?? You should never run just the outers on any concentric torch design. That's the fast way to melting your innerfire shut.



I could see outer fire only being bad for the innerfire, but if you're running oxy through the center that should cool the inner ports, and push the heat away from it. The only time I can see this being practical would be on a CC or CC+, because the outer is all surface and the inner is premix. I used to use a CC and was shown this flame setting by a very experienced blower, and I used it without incident for years before I upgraded to delta. It's the best way to get good colors out of AP and other strike colors for blowins etc.(when using a carlisle or knight or sargeant)

[BORO]

I look at it like this......

You have run the rocket...... If you can work with the minor center fire , and it can do the detail you need it to , get the surface top . ( minor ) If you need a smaller detail flame than the minor ( rider pre mix on the rocket? ) get the pre mix top , I can't do as much with a all surface mix , as I can with a pre mix top . I can get way tighter line work done with the pre mix .Just more range .

The mid range........ it is very hot. I am going to say that , for its size , it is super hot . If the three in question , all had the same size head , the mid range hands down is the hottest . ( That is not the case , the max and major make up the heat with size)
I have some skill , and going back to these torches ,I prefer the mid range for these reasons .
1. It has a way sharper shoulder. ( the edge of the flame ) So much in glass blowing is all about getting a area hot so it can change shape. At the same time , you have to keep the other part of the glass cool so it will stay the same as it was. If you have a good shoulder , than it is easy to heat only what you want . The major and max have a much more bushy flame ,softer shoulder , This make it harder to get the heat where you want ,and shapes crispy.
2. It is the best on gas , not a big deal to me , it is the deal breaker to some . The time it takes to make a piece is about the same , gas use is much better . The trade off in heat is worth it .
3. I had a mid range next to my cc not too long ago , and was amazed how hot it was .

The major/minor.... major pre-mix , I own this torch . The bottom major flame has two options , one is for a full set of ports on the square head. The other is for a "gas saver" block in the center , only has ports around the out side of the square . I have the gas saver . I have run the non gas saver as well , just not as much as the one I own . I saw a little more heat from the full flame major , but hardly noticeable. The big thing with the gas save option is...... the way the torch heats the glass. The torch will heat the tube in two spots one on each side of the saver block , this means you have to move the tube back and forth a inch or so to get a perfect heat base , and not two hot spots . This is not a big deal ,but can be to some one new .

I don't know what torch sucks more gas ,the major or red max ? I think you tend to push the red max harder , and it can make a longer flame before it distorts , and turns to fluff . The major will fluff out faster than the max . The major ( I think ) has the better crisper shoulder , only cuz it's square. The shoulder is vertical , not the edge of a circle . I think this is the only advantage the square head has over a round one .

The red max........ This is a very common , if not the most common torch out there . Lots of people do great things on this torch . When I only had the major ,and my shop mate had the max , I was way envious . The max looked so nice. It looked like the bigger brand torches , like a cc . I thought it was way hotter and all around better( of course its better , its anodized red!) .........I don't think this is the case any more. After I got better , and ran other brand torches. I had a max next to a cc not too long ago, We were let down by the lack of heat the max had. Even if it looked like the cc in size and shape .Don't get me wrong the max is great for what it is ,and what it costs . I just don't think it is hands down the best of the three, I can do any thing on a major , or a max , or a mid range , in about the same amount of time . The only thing you can do better on the max is the biggest bubble you could blow will be bigger on a max , and the biggest marble will be bigger on a max over the other two . It has the most heat. ( mid range is a hotter/more penetrating flame , just small and lazer like. )

All I can say is the price is about right . A red max is about a 100$ better than the major. The mid range costs more for less ,but is a more refined torch . It is going to give you a chance for the best product , most control of how the glass is heated .
I used to think a max is better than a major ,but I would buy the one I got the best deal on. ( a 200$ major minor is better than a 450$ max ) Then save my money for a "inner ,outer , flame" torch like the rocket is .

I know some one just starting , they have use of a max/minor , a major pre mix, a mini cc , and a bobcat . He was on the max to start. Now more and more ,he will use the bob cat for everything detail .Fumes with the pre mix . Then he likes to melt in with the major . He claims that the soft flame makes a more even heat base. I see his glass is nicer on this combo. (A.K.A. Only you can tell what is best for you.)

[istandalone24/7]

yup, Boro is the guy with the cc i was referring to ;)

[dplaza]

nice post ^

im new been working on my redmax premix for a couple weeks pretty steady finally. i have to say i watched a vid of a dude makin pipes on a midrange and i thought "wow that looks like a nice flame" has a lot more range down low than the max. would be sick to have a triple stack max, midrange, then premix top the tower of power! ha

[D. dino i ninjah]

I could see outer fire only being bad for the innerfire, but if you're running oxy through the center that should cool the inner ports, and push the heat away from it. The only time I can see this being practical would be on a CC or CC+, because the outer is all surface and the inner is premix. I used to use a CC and was shown this flame setting by a very experienced blower, and I used it without incident for years before I upgraded to delta. It's the best way to get good colors out of AP and other strike colors for blowins etc.(when using a carlisle or knight or sargeant)

I run my knight like this also no propane on in the center just oxy.. I was also shown how to do this by a guy I believed was really knowledgeable about flame working. I also had some one else a Beth user tell me that this would destroy my torch ... well i have done it for like 7 years and the torch is still working ... It is a good flame for dicro and also for crayon collars ...
for the OP I worked on a red max and expected it to be a shit torch ... it was not. the thing is hot. much hotter than I expected ..