Never too late to start...

[Sabu]

Greetings, all. I have a total of 3 hours of experience shaping glass, and I'm already hooked. So far, I've only worked with a furnace in a local studio (Blue Sage Studios in Oklahoma City - wonderful place!), but I've been fascinated by some examples I've seen from Milon Townsend, Janis Miltenberger, Sally Prasch, and Shane Fero. I've done some reading (lurking here and some other places) to learn that the kinds of glass-work that I would like to learn will not be easily accomplished with gathers from a furnace or soft glass - so it looks like I'll need to learn how to play with borosilicate.

I'm obviously a complete newbie...so if anyone wants to offer up some advice, I'll take everything I can get.

Thanks!

[Ybot]

read heaps on these boards and use the search function. search youtube for vids of techs and pay someone local for a few lessons. There is threads for newbs here right from what torch to buy through to how to price your work.

stick with clear till your nailing it and have super fun.. boro will take your soul.. worth it but. :)

have nice day. :)

[PyroChixRock]

Welcome!

We all have bad days at the torch. When you're at it long enough to have a bad day, remember that I said this and don't let it discourage you!

Practice practice practice.

Ask questions! Someone will answer with good info. Ybot already gave you lots. :D

Where you at?

[KLAW]

So What Exactly Are The Types of Pieces You Are Wanting to Make? Pipes?...Sculptural? (thick? or thin/fine detailed?)...Pendants/Marbles?...Bowls?...Sheet or Other Fused Pieces?...Large Paper Weights? ...Pics of Things Similar To What You Want To Accomplish Would Help A Lot Too...

So Then Based Off That The People On Here Can Basically Help You Decide What Exact Type of Glass Working You Are You Wanting To Get Into...Lamp/Flame Working, Furnace Glass Blowing, or Fusing...From There Everyone Can Help You With Which Type Setup You Are Looking For & What Order To Buy The Equipment You Will Need To Get Started With It & Not Be Buying Things You Shouldn't Be Until You Wont Be Wasting Money Taking To Long Getting To The Point You Can Properly Use Whatever It May Be...

If Your Wanting To Get Into Boro Lamp/Flame Working You Really Need To Take Ybot's Advice & Stay With Clear For A Good Amount Of Time (Unless You Have The Money To Blow...Then Go For It) It Can Be An Extremely Expensive Hobby To Learn...Especially If You Jump In And Waste Money On Things That Don't Return Money To Your Venture...But Once Things Are Going It Can Be A Hobby That Pays For Its Self And Eventually A Career Depending On How Things Go For You...

So Yeah Let Us Know What Your Hoping To Make(Pics Help A Lot) & Then Everyone Can Give You Their Suggestions On The Order of Operations To Achieve Your Goals of Getting Into That Aspect Of The Glass World, & In A Way That Will Help You Save Money By Spending It On The Right Things In The Right Order & Advancing Your Skills In An Optimized Way Too...Glad To Hear You Want To Get Into The Glass Arts Though!!...Its An Amazing Adventure That's Almost Impossible To Not Enjoy!! Your Already Off To A Great Start By Finding This Community To Help Guide You...Good Luck!!

[Sabu]

I'm in Oklahoma City (Yukon, actually, but close enough) and I've taken the first of a 2-part class at a local studio. I plan on asking about people that do benchwork with a torch during the next class - maybe see if I can get some private lessons. But first, I have to YouTube the hell out of some basics; try to acclimate myself.

Here are some pieces that I really like - for various reasons...

54563

54564

54565

54566

54567

I'm reading through and supplementing my own research right now with what torch I should buy, what kiln, how to set up ventilation, what tools to get, etc. I really wish I had more money to throw at this - but maybe it'll help build character to have to start with lower end torches...I guess we'll see!

[Sabu]

Baah - not sure why that posted twice...my apologies for mini-spam...

[glassdocnc]

Welcome Sabu. You have picked some nice inspiration pieces there.

[KLAW]

Yeah Those Are Beautiful Pieces...Deff Helps Show What Your Looking To Get Into...

What Your Wanting To Do Is Whats Called "Flameworking" Pretty Much... Eventually With The Things Like The Ones You Posted It Will Really Help To Have A Hand Torch...One Of The Things I Had Wished I Did Was Just Buy A Hand Torch Model Of My Torch And Mount For My Bench That Way I Had Both...That Might Be A Good Idea(But Depending On The Torch Could Cost A Lot More Though...One Of The Things To Decide Once You Know You Can Afford All The Basics Before Purchasing) Pretty Much It All Depends On How Much Money Your Willing To Spend Up Front To Decide What To Get...I Think Most People Would Agree To Start With A Small Torch (Any 7 port...Nortel Is A Good Priced Company For What You Get For Your Money Or If You Have The Extra Money To Spend Get A Triple Mix 7 Port (GTT Lynx) And Some Tools...You Can Use A Crock Pot With Vermiculite &/or Fiber Blankets To Cool Your Pieces Slowly In The Beginning To Save Money...Or Get A Small Kiln (Doesn't Need To Be Super Big...Most Likely Deff Not Over 12" cubed...Id Usually Suggest Under 8" Cubed But Seems Like You Want to Do Bigger Sculptural Stuff Eventually So Might Want To Wait Until You Can Afford It And Go 12") Once Again Its All About The Amount Of Money You Want To Spend on The Investment...

Looks Like You Are Deff Wanting To Go Boro...If You Have An Estimate Of How Much You Want To Spend on Investment(That You Might Not Get Back Except For In Enjoyment Because You Will Get That Eitherway:)It Will Help A Lot...$300?...$500?...$1K?...$1.5K?...$2K?...$2.5K ?...$3K?...+?... Thats Sort Of The Diff "Levels" Of Money For Start Up That Are Needed...I Mean I Don't Know Anyone That Couldnt Spend $10K On Any Day If They Had It Extra But People Can Help You Choose The Right Stuff & Order To Get Them In Once We Know How Much Your Wanting To Invest...Its Addicting..."Functional" (Able To Smoke Out Of) Art Unfortunately Does Sell Way Easier So Let Us Know If Your Open To That Type Stuff Too(& Are Over 18)...Otherwise Id Start With Pendants & Marbles, They Are The Next Easiest To Sell...Good Luck...Hope We Can Help You...

[Sabu]

I think you're right on the money with your assessment, klaw. I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about with the hand torch model of your torch and mount. Are you saying get 2 torches and leave one mounted - or get something that's hand-held but can be mounted to the bench?

I'm going to have about 2.5k, total, to invest in my start-up. If I can find someone locally (oklahoma city) with whom I can apprentice on the cheap, I'd prefer to do that. In the meantime, I've been gathering information for everything I'll need to setup a shop in my outside shed (10' x 7.5')...so far as I can tell, this will have to include a torch, a kiln, a tool kit, lots of clear glass on which to begin practice, glasses (eye protection), and a ventilation hood. I've educated myself on what I think I need (and to hear you advise a 7 port to start with REALLY confirms that I'm on the right track, since that's what I'd already decided) in terms of a torch and now a kiln (again, thanks for the info - which matches up with what I was already thinking...specifically, something like a paragon f-130 or an aim 99ls/d). I've started reading through the posts about how many CFMs of air I need to push through the shop to change out the air and safely ventilate the place. These forum posts have been a god-send for helping me educate myself.

So a little more about my background in case it'll help...I'm 39, moderately successful contract programmer, 3 boys (all live with me, but my 18 year old is in the process of going off into the navy to study nuclear engineering), divorced, wicked smart (in a Boston accent), with a clever - though often irreverent - creative streak. I did a bunch of drugs when I was young, and I'm not a prude or a stranger around, let's call it, subculture. I've been impressed with some of the incredibly intricate and creative pipes I've seen - and I'm not opposed to helping pay for this hobby with such an activity. It's just that my drive is more around ideas that give me an artistic outlet.

[KLAW]

Well thats awesome to here...Looks like we can get you pointed in the right direction now...

As for the hand torch thing i mentioned...Your second guess is what i had meant(A Hand Torch Version & With Either A Pre-Made Bench Mount(if you can find) or An Easy Way To Due It Would Get Your Hand Torch With The Optional "Hanging Hook" (i suggest anyways) And Just Mount A Pipe Vertically On The Edge of Your Bench To Hang It On The Tip of...or mount a Magnet on a pipe or a "eye loop" screw on a verticle 2"x2" attatched to the front of the bench or something)... I would personally get a GTT Lynx Hand Torch (this might not be possible right away due to availability/wait times but you might be able to find a used Lynx Hand Torch...they hold their value so are worth full price without any clogged ports...or since the triple mix GTTs hold their value & sell instantly used you might want to order the hand torch version from GTT and buy a used regular bench Lynx one on here since this is the option that will get you going quickest(GTT Might Say A Month Or Two Or "2 more weeks" For up to 7months like the did with me and do with many people, so i suggest just order a new one and buy a used bench one (they sell again so quick that you should be fine) to sell when new one is ready...unless you can come across a used/new hand torch version in the first place... The Lynx is a bit small and you will probably want to upgrade later but it should last you a VERY long time...My Friend has made HUGE things on his and my centerfire is a lynx and i can do most anything on it...

As For Your Kiln...I Have The Paragon F-13 (F-130) ...& I Love It!!!! The Hinged Lift Front Wall Door Is a Must For When You Have Your Hands Full And A Small Punty Door Is A Must No Matter What....& The Digital Control Makes It Fool Proof...I Cant Say Much About AIMS because i dont have one but have heard only good things... I Will Guarentee You Will Love The F-13 Though...Ive Never Had A Single Problem Or Crack Or Anything & Its Size Will Last You A Long Time Before You Need More Space...

Then you want to get propane & oxygen regulators & Lines...figure out if your going to buy an oxygen tank or rent...The Attic Fans At Home Depot for $70-90 are plenty fan and if you make your bench walls shaped like a triangle you will have plenty of venilation...the fan/bench can be put right up against a window or ducted to wherever you want(if you need to duct it you might want to put the fan at the exit source instead of bench so any holes/gaps in ducting suck air in instead of push contaminated air out...use fire proof "hardy backer" from home depot for the walls & roof & table top(unless you have a metel topped work bench like i happen to have then just build around it like i did) of the work bench station...Ill post a pic of my bench to show you what i mean by all this... Then after that you should have just enough for basic tools..and enough clear to get you going...Its actually about what i had spent for the exact setup in the beginning except i had a Nortel RedMax w/MegaMinor on Top w/torch mounted marver (still have with 4-5hr on Redmax & under 70hrs on MegaMinor that am selling soon cuz got GTT Phantom...& wud actually suggest if you cant get triple mix gtt hand torch & think theres no way you will be able to upgrade to a $1200+ torch in a year or two)

The Bills Pile Up Quick Thats Why if Your Willing To Do Pipes It Might Be Worth It For At least the first year...Im in the same boat...dont want to make pipes necessarily...but love their beauty and respect them & have pre-cancer so was told to use cannabis but havnt much since i was younger & did socially occasionally too... Hope Im Giving You Some Good Ideas & Helping Gettin' You Goin Down The Right Path... :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h-a4VNwV8RA/Uj-E4Cg3IkI/AAAAAAAAASw/or1Ahpd6mEg/w793-h595-no/13+-+2

P.S. If you get that stool ^----^ from harbor freight for like $25 it will need to have the staples on the bottom holding the vinyal "fabric" removed and extra padding added and re stapled (very easy to do...just need staple gun) because they come with no padding and is like sitting on wood...i knew this when buying it and planned to re upholster and when i did could not believe how easy it was to do....But most of the time its easiest on the back to stand (preferably on a cushy mat) and rotate to sitting occasionally....

[Sabu]

Wow - that's a great setup you have. I like the idea of putting it in the corner. I'll have to start posting pictures when I get to the part where I'm setting everything up.

I'm not sure about buying or renting an oxygen tank. I think it makes the most sense to rent at first - then see about buying and going with a refilling system. Or maybe oxygen generators. I think that can be a problem for future-Jeff. I'm just hoping I can get reasonable prices for renting and refills.

Are the companies that sell kits of tools all the same, pretty much? Or are some better than others? Will the pipe maker kits come with the stuff i'll need to do the other stuff I want to do? I'd really like to learn small human figures - 3 or 4 inches high. Any advice on extra tools that I might need to pick up?

That stool is badass. Have you tried one with a back - or would that get in your way of mostly standing with occasional sit down breaks?

[KLAW]

Yeah it works real good to have your side walls angled...

Since its like being inside of a hood its nice to have your intake air(Deff need intake...especially if in garage w/gas water heater...Ive blown out my pilot light by not opening my garage door for air to come in before i had turned on my exhaust fan) directly behind you so it doesn't pull your flame to one side a bit...Currently mine isn't and its not too bad though even with the more powerful attic fan from home depot i have(Prob would of been ok/better with the smaller of the two they had at HD)

Mine isn't in a corner its up against the wall where a window is(If "Ductable" In Your/Anyone's Situation Putting A Bench Like Mine In A Corner Would Be A Good Use Of Space...Eventually I Will Add A 2nd Bench Like My First For Visiting Friends To Use & Have Thought About Putting It In A Corner To Save Space In My Studio) ...Then i put a board over the rest of window and sealed it all up except a little slit so i can grab the widow and slide it open or shut and lock it still...Then i have a wood flap on hinges that i put down over that slit after opening so no air comes back it inside.

The tool kits from different companies can very a lot in quality...I mean any brand will last you until your able to afford better stuff though. For the most part a pipe maker kit will have the main tools you will want, sometimes they will let you mix and match(especially if buying in person)..As tools go your probably going to want to get these in this order:

-2"x3" Graphite Paddle w/angled tip front edge & min one side edge flat (& other side rounded preferably)
-12"x12"x1/4"+ Graphite Plate(can get away with 6"x6" for awhile)
-Pliers(Larger Non-Pointed thick w/o much taper & w/rounded tip...Silver one on top row 3rd from back on my bench wall in pic)
-Tungsten Straight Pick
-Marble Mold w/varying sizes in one (Bench or Handled whichever is cheapest)
-Small Octagonal Reamer (abt 2mm-20mm taper)
-Rakes & Picks Set
-Tweezers Set
-Sm, Md & Lg Carbon Rods (1/8"-1/4", 3/8"& 5/8")(preferably copper coated handled)
-Glass Shears (just economy cheap version...they can get way more expensive then one might think)
-Sm Reg Claw Grabber
-5/8" Bowl Push (eventually will want but if cant afford just round one end of the 5/8" carbon rod)
-A Torch or Base Mounted "L" Marver (eventually will want but if cant afford right away use graphite paddle on pad @90* angle)

Well That's The Basics...Dont know how much will fit in your budget... Save room for as much clear as you can(5mm rod & 25mm medium wall is a good start) maybe pick up a .999 or .9999 silver dollar for spot price around town(think $25-30 right now but will last a min of your first year) for fuming to play with color to begin with...Try to buy as local as possible(Harbor Freight has the Rakes/Picks & Tweezers Sets & I believe the type of Pliers... (anything metal should not be put in the flame directly...tungsten can a bit and can be sharpened again later by hand decently or by tungsten sharpening chemical dip perfectly) ....Get/Ask for package deals (call & mix n' match if possible)...

Yeah I've always wanted to have a back on my stool but a quality bar stool/one with a back is way more expensive than one might think (Like $100+ new easy) which is why i decided to just undo the staples on and add padding to a cheap one...I'm waiting until i can afford a tall padded drafting chair (Like $250 + easy)...Well that's about all i got for now...hopefully someone else can chime in and add to/change around the order of the tool list too...But Hopefully I've Been Able To Help...If You Have Any Questions & I Loose Track of Replying on This Thread Feel Free To PM Me...Good Luck... :)

[veraflows]

So is the whole area above your flame an exhaust hood?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[KLAW]

So is the whole area above your flame an exhaust hood?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Sorry forgot abt this thread...Yep pretty much my whole work bench is inside an exhaust hood, that's what I love abt it...and being evenly balanced (same angles, fan centered & walls at a strong enough angle/a deep enough cabinet) it clears all the air out great from everywhere.

[mbashaw]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-h-a4VNwV8RA/Uj-E4Cg3IkI/AAAAAAAAASw/or1Ahpd6mEg/w793-h595-no/13+-+2



Is this one of the attic fans that has a thermometer attached to it? I purchased this attic fan (http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Attic-CX1500-Power-Ventilator/dp/B000LNII4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405535145&sr=8-1&keywords=gable+fan#productDetails) from amazon and I'm not sure how I'm going to keep it running with the thermometer controlling the on and off?

[KLAW]

Is this one of the attic fans that has a thermometer attached to it? I purchased this attic fan (http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Attic-CX1500-Power-Ventilator/dp/B000LNII4Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405535145&sr=8-1&keywords=gable+fan#productDetails) from amazon and I'm not sure how I'm going to keep it running with the thermometer controlling the on and off?

Yeah that was a pic before my first winter...its real easy to cut the thermo off (didn't have anyone to learn from to tell me I shouldn't of left it on at the time) just pull the metal jacket hose out of the box (might take a bit of strength but don't worry your going to get rid of the box anyways...so could cut also) and cut wires off (or un do twist nuts if has those) then wire on a cord and plug with butt splices...do same guage wire cord/plug (or rest of cord that came on it) and use smaller heat shrink tube on each wire and then over all of them together with larger heat shrink tube...but remember in order to slip that last larger heat shrink tube on over all of them it has to already be on the cord when you start the individual wires cuz you can't get the right size over a plug. Deff use heat shrink over your butt splices though. Oh and you can wire in a switch too for easy on off...or just plug into a surge protector/multi plug power bar with switch if you don't feel comfortable adding the switch in the middle.

Actually I was real sick in the winter and its still on there and when I did torch I would just put a heater on my bench for a bit before starting and then the torch would keep it going...but yeah abt to cut mine off before the first cold day I regret it. Its above 75* here every night so just been lazy. :^) I made sure to cut it off the 2nd bench I had recently made for Misha.

If you need a full walk through with pics I can do mine here in the next couple days to show you, just let me know...cuz otherwise I'm feeling lazy until its a bit cooler out:D