Fast Oxygen Depletion

[umanglass]

Whats up, I just set up my studio in my basement this past week. Today was my first day on the torch and it was awesome. The problem is, I think I ran out of oxygen and I didn't think I would use it up this quick. I'm running a bethlehem bravo, which i've heard uses a lot of oxygen, however I didn't think I'd run out of oxygen as quickly as I did. I'm using a K tank and only spent about 3 hours on the torch. I also don't know much about psi and how it affects consumption but i've been trying to run it at 2 psi for propane and 8 psi for oxygen.

[itssteve]

I'm not sure if that is unusual for a bravo or not, Did you have the outer ring on a lot?

I'd check for leaks before anything, put some soap and water anywhere that air might be able to escape between the tank and the torch, including the valves. Look for bubbles.

[Ybot]

we run a phantom and a bravo off one g tank and get 6 hours+ out of it. i say plus because when i leave there is still oxy left that my mentor keeps working on.

[Matt P]

hmmmm, burning through a k tank in a day is certainly not unheard of, but 3 hours seems pretty damn quick... even if you had the outer fire raging. Did you just recently set up your studio? I'd gor through every single fitting and connection you've made in the oxy line, you may have a leak in there somewhere between your torch and the tank.

[691175002]

Its easy to tell if you have a leak, just close the oxy tank valve (and torch valves) and see if the line pressure drops over time.

[istandalone24/7]

that is WAY too fast for one single bravo. they are known to be a very efficient torch, and a K in three hours is just silly. either you have a leak, or your tank wasn't full to begin with....or you left your outer oxy on....

[Icarus]

One leak that people sometimes forget could even be a source of a leak is the oxygen tank itself. I can never find a good cut away of the valve, but an oxy tank valve is meant to either be fully open or fully closed. If it's only partially open, the way that it's designed can allow oxygen to escape through the valve assembly itself.

A lot of times people leave their oxygen tanks partially open because someone told them that's the way to do it. That is the way for fuel gases (1. so you can shut them off quickly, 2. acetylene becomes unstable at too high of pressures or rate of flow), but oxygen should always be opened all the way up when you start, and closed all the way when you're done.

I don't think that would totally account for the little time you got on it, but it is the silent tank killer. Be sure to also soap check all your other connections as well.

[Kaizen]

Also check your tank pressures at pickup or delivery. Many times I see 300cf tanks with less than 2k psi usually they are 2,200-2,500 psi.

[talonst]

You should be able to get 3 or 4x as many hours on a Bravo unless you have the thing wide open all the time. Get some leak test solution and test all of your connections. There should be no teflon tape on any of the connectors

[funksizzle]

Ya, on a phantom with oxy bypass, using outer fire a lot, and a handtorch going most of the time I get about 5 hours. But, that;s with two torches going most of the time, and always oxy going into the outer ring whether outer fire is on or off. I've also got the right crimping tool now, and am getting to replace all my hoses without oitiker clamps. The brass ferreles are a culprit as well, I dont trust em.

This guy has good prices. Heres the website, but his ebay prices are better. 100 for 19.99
http://www.installationpartssupply.com/ which he will honor

and get one of these for a really tight clamp, they work better than any tool you got in your garage
http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-Tridon-61001V-Crimp-Clamp-Tool/dp/B001UL4ALS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1380809490&sr=8-2&keywords=hose+crimp+tool

lube up the nipples with spit without getting any inside and push into hard wall/ground/whatever

[LooseSeal Baller]

well according to the flow rates that sounds very possible bethlehem has them rated at 40 lpm oxygen consumption.

just for a comparison GTT has the mirage rated at 26 lpm oxygen consumption.

[LarryC]

well according to the flow rates that sounds very possible bethlehem has them rated at 40 lpm oxygen consumption.

just for a comparison GTT has the mirage rated at 26 lpm oxygen consumption.

If those numbers are accurate then it is indeed possible. That rate of consumption though is quite surprising. If I am working on large solid marbles with a lot of striking silver color where I use the outer fire on my Mirage a lot then I get 7-8 hours per T. He is only using a K which holds 30% less gas.

[istandalone24/7]

working style makes a big difference too. when i first had my midrange, i could go through a k tank in about 8 hours making marbles. once i got a bit better at manipulating the glass and dialing in my flames my oxy consumption went way down.

[LooseSeal Baller]

30% of 337 (t) tank cu ft is 101.1

k-tank is 275

so 337-101 is 236. Not 275, just sayin

edit/ looks like the k tanks are actually only 249 cu ft;) my bad

[khan]

Berry....
What source are you using to get the figures you used? The 249 for the K tank...ect. ect.

Khan

[Raimond]

All good points to check.
Icarus, thanks for that info, I did not know that. Rep+

If you start with a short fill you will empty the tank fast for sure, don't accept a tank under 2200 psi. However, a leak will spend your money quickly also. If you're going to torch much, look into a homefill system. More to invest in up front, but a big money saver over time.

[LooseSeal Baller]

Berry....
What source are you using to get the figures you used? The 249 for the K tank...ect. ect.

Khan

google/ praxair

not all companys use the K-tank name as a reference, even tho most suppliers will know what u mean.

[BORO]

Funk ? Am I drunk? Is that really you .... Time served , they let you out! Also , k or t or whatever , they don't seem to be standard , even tanks from the same company , some may be a inch taller or shorter , and hold different cf. , if just by a little.

[istandalone24/7]

yea but they took away his shoelaces and he's now on a high dose of Thorazine.

[umanglass]

Update. Turns out I only had a 156 cf tank. Also, the bethlehem bravo has 2 oxygen hoses and 2 propane hoses that I have connected to my propane/oxy hoses with y connectors. Using this setup, even if I don't have the outer ring firing is there still oxygen flowing through it/wasting oxygen? Just a question that arose after reading funksizzles post.

[istandalone24/7]

no. if you have your outer fire turned off, no matter if you have hoses hooked to it or not, if it's off, it's off. if it's still spewing o2 when the valve is off you have a leak.

[Icarus]

Just a question that arose after reading funksizzles post.

You'll find that you'll often come away from Funksizzle posts with more questions than answers.

[FoggyMountain]

A bravo uses more o2 then a mirage? This sounds like it can't be right. It appears so much smaller and cheaper. And the GTT torches have an extra o2 valve because it is tripple fire mix. I also thought that bethlehem was bragging about how little o2 the new bravo uses because it requires the psi to be set so low?

Ayways i have had three people torching at once on a K tank. One Carlisle CC, one Redmax and my Mirage GTT. It lasted us almost the whole day. 6 hours minimum i would have to imagine. And were were making mostly pipes with 32X4, not making jewelry with just a center flame.

If you are burning through a K tank in 3 hours all by yourself and you don't have leaks, then i would suggest getting a better torch. And i would highly question bethlehem for making such a wasteful burner.

[Greymatter Glass]

54648

[istandalone24/7]

there is no way that is right. either a leak, a partial full tank to start or the outerfire was raging o2 w/o your knowledge (like you bumped the knob).