View Full Version : Why are lathes so pricey?
lukem5
10-15-2013, 03:17 AM
I mean, its a motor, that spins... with a clamp...... I mean 10k for a lathe really I can buy a new car for that.
Also lathe thread, what do you guys think about using a cordless drill as a lathe?
Icarus
10-15-2013, 04:11 AM
What kind of new car can you get for $10k?
As for the drill idea, give it a shot and see what you think. Watch out for flying hot glass though.
Time and experience will actually answer both of these questions for you.
Mecha
10-15-2013, 04:41 AM
What kind of new car can you get for $10k?
A really, really awesome one.
With rims.
gmarv54
10-15-2013, 05:16 AM
supply and demand, demand outruns supply.
Icarus
10-15-2013, 05:24 AM
supply and demand, demand outruns supply.
Well, that and it's slightly more than "a motor, that spins... with a clamp......"
Making simple tube's on a lathe is pretty easy stuff. There are thousands of people doing it and thousands more that want to do it.
Coupled with the fact that a brand new industry standard Litton lathes start out at 12-13.5 thousand for there low end art lathe. For the machines that they are known for try 20,000 or more new.
There are only so many used quality machines. That's why the new small company's are jumping in.
I can't wait tell these company's make a table top the size of a beth gl100 with reg chucks.
That's all I want a nice small machine that fits in my small shop and chucks up to 75mm.
lukem5
10-15-2013, 06:17 AM
Well, that and it's slightly more than "a motor, that spins... with a clamp......"
but only slightly.
jw721
10-15-2013, 06:22 AM
but only slightly.
lol, not really though. Think about all the precision involved in it. Try building one, you will find it is a lot more work than you think.
lukem5
10-15-2013, 06:22 AM
Making simple tube's on a lathe is pretty easy stuff. There are thousands of people doing it and thousands more that want to do it.
Coupled with the fact that a brand new industry standard Litton lathes start out at 12-13.5 thousand for there low end art lathe. For the machines that they are known for try 20,000 or more new.
There are only so many used quality machines. That's why the new small company's are jumping in.
I can't wait tell these company's make a table top the size of a beth gl100 with reg chucks.
That's all I want a nice small machine that fits in my small shop and chucks up to 75mm.
wellp i've got a few 100k laying around maybe ill dial up good ol' china and have em pump a few out for me hehe I am pretty sure I could get a batch of good quality lathes from a reputable factory for less than 5k a unit. I have over 3 decades of experience doing Chinese imports mostly industrial machines/raw materials, seems a part list for a lathe couldn't possibly amount to as much as they are charging for these things, and believe me once you have the parts/plans, putting them together isn't a problem, esp in china ; ) (ofc dialing in a lathe to spin true would be a totally different story).
jw721
10-15-2013, 06:29 AM
If you have a few hundred thousand lying around, why are you complaining about the price of a lathe? :P
lukem5
10-15-2013, 06:29 AM
What kind of new car can you get for $10k?
As for the drill idea, give it a shot and see what you think. Watch out for flying hot glass though.
Haha ok makes sense, but I mean, if you keep the drill spinning at a low speed like a lath would be... then I can't see how there would be hot flying glass.
Any other reasons this idea wouldn't work?
Icarus
10-15-2013, 06:32 AM
Then what are you complaining about? Get a cheap chinese knockoff and and go to town.
Congratulations on that three decades of importing crap from China. You're helping to keep the American dream alive.
lukem5
10-15-2013, 06:32 AM
If you have a few hundred thousand lying around, why are you complaining about the price of a lathe? :P
This was money accumulated over my life, its part of my investment fund, this is my job. I need this stack of money to keep "making money." I still don't make anymore than an average teachers salary though, I am and have been an entrepreneur of sorts my whole life.
Then what are you complaining about? Get a cheap chinese knockoff and and go to town.
Congratulations on that three decades of importing crap from China. You're helping to keep the American dream alive.
Many of my clients are American Manufacturers whom I import machinery and raw materials for so they can make things to sell to us and others. I certaintly do think I am helping keep the american dream alive. You know we can't get everything on our own soil. Why rape our own land for natural resources and cheap labor when we can rape china?
believe me guys America is winning here, for now. About to shift to china's side though.
samoth890
10-15-2013, 06:35 AM
I'm no expert but I've gotta think they're calibrated very precisely, not to mention all the precision machined metal parts that make up the clamps and spinning pieces and all that? :o
10k doesn't seem so bad for one that looks sexy and works perfectly. I'd rather get a lathe than a dolled up Mitsubishi mini truck for 10.
But that's just me. I've never touched one, so maybe I'm full of it. :P
jw721
10-15-2013, 06:36 AM
This was money accumulated over my life, its part of my investment fund, this is my job. I need this stack of money to keep "making money." I still don't make anymore than an average teachers salary though, I am and have been an entrepreneur of sorts my whole life.
From what I am told, a lathe is an investment that will pay it's self off pretty quickly.
lukem5
10-15-2013, 06:38 AM
From what I am told, a lathe is an investment that will pay it's self off pretty quickly.
ahh? You try going around selling your glass ware, even its its perfect... see how hard it is to get a decent price.
And remember you gotta move volume to pay off a 10k lathe, do you have enough clientele?
You might, but from what I have sen it varies according to locality, some areas seem to have a glut of glass and others starved for it.
Icarus
10-15-2013, 06:48 AM
ahh? You try going around selling your glass ware, even its its perfect... see how hard it is to get a decent price.
From what I've been told, that was a lot easier to do before a crap ton of cheap janky chinese imports hit our markets....
jw721
10-15-2013, 07:00 AM
From what I've been told, that was a lot easier to do before a crap ton of cheap janky chinese imports hit our markets....
Yeah I hear a lot of industries/fields are having that problem right now....
gmarv54
10-15-2013, 08:07 AM
i remember a time (when i bought my hsa ) the hsa lathes were going for around 3 to 4 grand for a good used
hsa lathes, now i would not take 7 grand for mine 20 years later. what does this mean inflation i guess,
also litton makes a d#$n fine machine. anyway what do i know i still think 10,000.00 for a new car or truck
is a fair price. i am always surpurised at the sticker price.
Lmwfy
10-15-2013, 08:16 AM
http://www.genmay.com/images/smilies/locked.gif
Jimi The Don
10-15-2013, 08:21 AM
i Work On a Lathe 40 Hours a Week And i Promise You, They Are Much More Than a Motor And a Clamp. a Lathe That Is Made By Someone Who Cares About The End Result Is Well Worth 10k. a Cheaply Made Lathe, a Poorly Assembled lathe, Or a Cheaply Made Poorly Assembled Lathe Is a Frustrating Waste Of Time. Also, Lathes Need To Spin Fast As Well As Slow, Using a Drill Is a Horrible Idea.
Trevor
10-15-2013, 08:28 AM
drill=lathe same fucking thing, its a great idea. you couldn't possibly have anything go wrong or hurt yourself. trust me I've got tons of experience with this
just chuck up the biggest fucking tube you can and let er rip. if you can lay a drill press on its side that work even better
you will need a zip tie or excessive duct tape to hold the trigger down to its fastest position. lots of super glue works equally well
(please don't do this)
jw721
10-15-2013, 08:39 AM
drill=lathe same fucking thing, its a great idea. you couldn't possibly have anything go wrong or hurt yourself. trust me I've got tons of experience with this
just chuck up the biggest fucking tube you can and let er rip. if you can lay a drill press on its side that work even better
you will need a zip tie or excessive duct tape to hold the trigger down to its fastest position. lots of super glue works equally well
(please don't do this)
Might work better/be safer than whatever he pays china to develop and manufacture.
DIMBW
10-15-2013, 09:01 AM
Wow, u guys are fucking ruthless.....
lol
Wow, u guys are fucking ruthless.....
lol
Welcome to the Melting Pot.
Lmwfy
10-15-2013, 09:10 AM
http://www.genmay.com/images/smilies/locked.gif
gmarv54
10-15-2013, 09:44 AM
good grief you guys act like if he chucks a piece of glass up in a drill
and lets it spin hes gonna die or something. seems to me the worse
that could happen is he might fling a piece of hot glass across his
shop. now tell me have you not done something like that, if not you ain,t
been trying.
DIMBW
10-15-2013, 10:00 AM
Flinging molten glass across the shop is always the highlight of my night. Or maybe it's the hiss it makes when I pour beer on it.
The reason is economics. If you make a product the first thing you have to recover is your machine setup cost. That means like paying for that tool or jig that you cant get from Harbor Freight ...nope..... it has to be made special for you because it does one thing over and over but it does it very well. So anyway you have to recover all that tooling cost that was put in just to make the product...(the lathe) worthwhile to make. So if you are going to sell 40,000 of the lathes you can recover your cost by making only say a 10 or 15% return on each one you sell..BUT... and this is where the rub is.... but if your gonna only sell say.... 500 units. You can see that you are gonna have to make a much better percentage return on each unit you sell to cover all that setup cost... So, now rather than making a 10% profit on each one you have to make a 50 or even 75% profit on each unit (lathe) you sell.
Litton lathes (and most of the top of the line lathes) use a cast iron base... nice and heavy so it doesnt move around while your working... and the headstock and tailstock are both again... cast iron casings. Notice on the new cheaper lathes they are sheet metal welded together. Well that cast iron had to be poured into a sand mold. All that equipment they have to make sand molds and heat the metal and pour it not once but in a production situation. They have to recover all that cost before they make even one dime on their lathes. Which one would you rather have??? a cast iron base that once you place it will NOT move until you are ready to move it or do you want to put your lathe on a home made 2 X 4 table that you put together in a hurry to hold your new lathe.??? i know what i would rather have.
Look at their chucks... the damn things are so well made that ppl are still buying them for several thousand dollars 20 years after they are put into service. See if anything you get at Lowes is even still around in 20 years.
Those expensive lathes you see were made to hold up in a production glass working situation not for me to put in my little shed and play around with. They are HEAVY DUTY SHIT>>>!!!
Thats why they are so pricey...
Khan
Your not gonna hurt yourself putting some glass in your drill... shit...do it and have fun.
Khan
Jimi The Don
10-15-2013, 10:17 AM
i Love Flinging Hot Substances
A lathe , or tube shop , is much more than just a 10k+ machine . ( yes the same machines were 5 or 6 k tops in 2004 ish , the market price is at a peak is my guess . As more options come available , it should settle down ) If you just lamp work at a bench , you can stretch supplies , a few hundred $ and you have glass to work with, a small kiln , and your set .................................................. ...................................... If you did aquire a lathe , now you can eat whole cases of 44 mm or what ever size you like, in just one sitting .( This is assuming you can make a saleable product , and the supplys are not wasted on learning curve .) You need a very large kiln , and electricity for it , the lathe ,saw , and the extra lathe vents . You will need a saw , no matter slits or not , you need a saw to cut sections for prep .You make all the small parts you need , in a timely manner , and clean enough to sell . All of this adds up quickly. Then you must make sales , but not a few sales to your local shops.( like bench work ) You need to sell a product that demands big money orders for just a few pieces . This means you need more outlets . Most shops won't carry 10 of each lathe product.The price range you must operate in , to be succefull with a lathe every day , reflects in the cost of all the equipment , and supplys you need . Rightfully so . If you can make it work , the profits can be proportionately larger . ( so everyone wants a lathe , they see $$$ , truth is , it's just not that simple . )
byron3
10-15-2013, 11:53 AM
Here dude :
I Love Mad Scientist ..........
http://www.cartertools.com/
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Links.htm#mp
http://imajeenyus.com/workshop/20110125_glass_lathe/index.shtml
http://pw2.netcom.com/~sjnoll/glasslathe.html Check this link out!!
Damn the doubters, keep up the good fight, and above all keep me informed!!
Much love
B3
byron3
10-15-2013, 12:04 PM
Mind you these are all small lathes, but using a Taig milling machine to fabricate parts, well I think you can make the connection. There is a whole world of hobby lathes, and just with oxygen technology, us mad scientist and closet inventors will take what we need from other industries and convert it over to our versions of glass lathes ..............................
The components exist in one form or another and simple machining can yield larger components. Understanding how precision bearings and zero tolerance nuts on simple machine such as the Taig series will translate over to knowledge that will scale up. No I do not think these small hobby lathes would serve as industrial work horses for every day prodo use, but the knowledge may prove to be invaluable latter on down the road. You have to be able to crawl before you can walk!!
byron3
10-15-2013, 12:19 PM
Here this fine fellow was kind enough to provide you all the mechanical drawings, blueprints for a home made glass lathe!! cira 2000
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/gwl/
Riley
10-15-2013, 12:47 PM
You know we can't get everything on our own soil. Why rape our own land for natural resources and cheap labor when we can rape china?
believe me guys America is winning here, for now. About to shift to china's side though.
Score one for the heartless dreamer. Usually raping anything isn't a good thing, not even China. This thread is but another worthless turd to stir up angst. Cheaper American lathes are on their way to market from several reliable sources. Ones I can call up on the phone right now. You should save your teacher's pension and ideas of rape and conquest and go find another forum to troll.
And yes, you can make a one headed lathe from a drill. Holds less than 10mm of glass, wobbles, and is only practical in the smallest applications, but I don't need tell you that, your a dreamer. Rape on dude.
julian floro
10-15-2013, 01:15 PM
^^^
gmarv54
10-15-2013, 02:38 PM
yeah whats wrong with flinging hot glass just watch where it lands and if it ain,t
touching flammable material just carry on, theres always the next time.
but all foolishness aside how many of you have never dropped or had a hot piece
of glass hit the floor and go skittering away. i dare say only you who ain,t trying.
lukem5
10-16-2013, 10:55 PM
From what I've been told, that was a lot easier to do before a crap ton of cheap janky chinese imports hit our markets....
them Chinese sure an pump out any object in existence fast and in high quantity (make sure you read QUANTITY not QUALITY), but they sure as hell can't do art from what i've seen.
lukem5
10-17-2013, 12:40 AM
drill=lathe same fucking thing, its a great idea. you couldn't possibly have anything go wrong or hurt yourself. trust me I've got tons of experience with this
just chuck up the biggest fucking tube you can and let er rip. if you can lay a drill press on its side that work even better
you will need a zip tie or excessive duct tape to hold the trigger down to its fastest position. lots of super glue works equally well
(please don't do this)
ahah funny trevor, love the passive aggressive sort of insult at the very end there.
But what if you just spun the drill slowly or modified the trigger to make it spin slower so you don't accidentally press the speed trigger all the way down when you have a giant gob of molten glass on it?
Sounds safe as hell to me actually.
And yes, you can make a one headed lathe from a drill. Holds less than 10mm of glass, wobbles, and is only practical in the smallest applications, but I don't need tell you that, your a dreamer. Rape on dude.
Wobbles? Hm cus last time I had a bit in my screwdriver it spun straight... you know like 99% of them do? I am pretty sure a round glass rod would behave much like a round bit but with less strength.
10mm, that one hell of a thick rod, I think that will hold quite a bit.
WOW I JSUT HAD A GREAT IDEA WHY CANT WE JUST MAKE AN ATTACHMENT FOR THE DRILL, THAT HAS CHUCKS ON IT!?!??!?!?!? would have a 5 mm standard bit end, attached to a fucking CHUCK to put any size tube you want. Somebody tell me this is a bad idea? Maybe I should erase this....
lukem5
10-17-2013, 02:54 AM
WOW I JSUT HAD A GREAT IDEA WHY CANT WE JUST MAKE AN ATTACHMENT FOR THE DRILL, THAT HAS CHUCKS ON IT!?!??!?!?!? would have a 5 mm standard bit end, attached to a fucking CHUCK to put any size tube you want. Somebody tell me this is a bad idea? Maybe I should erase this....
Ahhh just got off the phone wit the patent office, sounds like this ones gonna be a winner.
Def making prototype and will let you guys know how it is. I can see these babies being pumped out to the tune of 15$ a pop at retail.
Imagine that, a 15$ lathe? Well half one anyway.
Will keep you all updated
istandalone24/7
10-17-2013, 03:00 AM
so how will you mount the drill so it doesn't fall over when it's got a length of 75mm in it? and you're really going to adjust the speed of this "lathe" with the drill trigger?
between this idea and your garbage of a thread about "marbles being a waste if they're not on a pipe" you make me wonder about your bath salt intake.
lukem5
10-17-2013, 03:06 AM
so how will you mount the drill so it doesn't fall over when it's got a length of 75mm in it? and you're really going to adjust the speed of this "lathe" with the drill trigger?
is this a serious concern or are you just trying to throw shit at me again? Two extremely easy to solve problems.
Bath salts must make me a genius.
istandalone24/7
10-17-2013, 03:20 AM
both. waking up and the first thing i see if your asinine marble post, makes me wonder if your 14 years old and/or handicapped.
jw721
10-17-2013, 05:32 AM
lol, let us know how this works out for you.
Jimi The Don
10-17-2013, 05:49 AM
You're Right, a 15 Inch rod Will Spin As True As a 3 Inch Bit, No Problem, Especially With 5lbs Or More Hanging Off The End of It..
Ironheart
10-17-2013, 05:50 AM
A Lathe Drill just sounds like a bad idea to me. But hey man if you can get it to actually work then more power to you. But I can already think of some major problems you are going to have with it. When it come to equipment you usually get what you pay for, just saying...
jw721
10-17-2013, 05:55 AM
You're Right, a 15 Inch rod Will Spin As True As a 3 Inch Bit, No Problem, Especially With 5lbs Or More Hanging Off The End of It..
Of course it will, especially when the whole setup is made in China :P
Jimi The Don
10-17-2013, 05:58 AM
^^ truth!
lukem5
10-17-2013, 08:12 AM
You're Right, a 15 Inch rod Will Spin As True As a 3 Inch Bit, No Problem, Especially With 5lbs Or More Hanging Off The End of It..
totally understandable concern and its the only thing that I think might hold this idea back but it depends highly on the bit itself and the drill, some spin more true than others. I am already ordering parts for a prototype, I actually think this is gonna work.
WORST CASE SCENARIO is I'll have to make a custom bit for a specific make/model of drill and you will have to use it on that.
Of course it will, especially when the whole setup is made in China :P
Don't be such presumptuous bastards, I just ordered hundreds of dollars in parts from american suppliers, if everything works out alright I might just mass produce it here since its such a simple item. Don't even talk I have done more good for this country as a veteran entrepreneur supporting US manufacturing than any of you probably have. I have definitely helped create my fair share of American jobs, and have produced goods at a lower price so consumers like you don't have to pay out of their ass for things like relatively simple machinery like lathes.
Another thing i'm getting on is the foot pedal, how can these fucking jews charge 800$ for a fucking foot pedal?!?!? yeah you heard me FUCKING JEWS!!! Jewery at its best right here! No offense to non money-grubbin jews.
If you're not a total retard you can make a foot pedal for $200 in parts.
Icarus
10-17-2013, 08:24 AM
Another thing i'm getting on is the foot pedal, how can these fucking jews charge 800$ for a fucking foot pedal?!?!? yeah you heard me FUCKING JEWS!!! Jewery at its best right here! No offense to non money-grubbin jews.
Oh fuck no!
See you in a few days man. Hopefully you come correct with a different attitude.
lukem5
10-17-2013, 08:25 AM
If you're not a total retard you can make a foot pedal for $200 in parts.
coul've sworn i jsut saw a post where a guy made one for $60, and even he got jewed by home depot "low prices"
I can tell you right now an apparatus as simple as a foot pedal could be made at literally 5-10$ ppu and retailed for 20$
EDIT: that's being a little optimistic.... on the small scale however, a smaller batch could easily be done 10-15$ in parts/labor/shipping a unit.
PyroChixRock
10-17-2013, 08:29 AM
totally understandable concern and its the only thing that I think might hold this idea back but it depends highly on the bit itself and the drill, some spin more true than others. I am already ordering parts for a prototype, I actually think this is gonna work.
WORST CASE SCENARIO is I'll have to make a custom bit for a specific make/model of drill and you will have to use it on that.
Don't be such presumptuous bastards, I just ordered hundreds of dollars in parts from american suppliers, if everything works out alright I might just mass produce it here since its such a simple item. Don't even talk I have done more good for this country as a veteran entrepreneur supporting US manufacturing than any of you probably have. I have definitely helped create my fair share of American jobs, and have produced goods at a lower price so consumers like you don't have to pay out of their ass for things like relatively simple machinery like lathes.
Another thing i'm getting on is the foot pedal, how can these fucking jews charge 800$ for a fucking foot pedal?!?!? yeah you heard me FUCKING JEWS!!! Jewery at its best right here! No offense to non money-grubbin jews.
Seriously?! :wes:
Funny trolling threads are one thing, this is bs. I agree with Icky on the banstick.
I'd LOVE to see the solenoids you find for $2.50 each. Also, T-grade hose is not cheap.
In fact, prove it. Put together a parts list and a schematic for a $10 foot pedal.
You get a crazy sammich. IN SPPPPAAAAACCCEEE!!
http://31.media.tumblr.com/ad25e9fa25fbcd8e22ba8af5c0b32e8c/tumblr_mr3id9Mdly1s3jd4co1_500.gif
Icarus
10-17-2013, 08:32 AM
I'd LOVE to see the solenoids you find for $2.50 each. Also, T-grade hose is not cheap.
In fact, prove it. Put together a parts list and a schematic for a $10 foot pedal.
You're going to have to wait 72 hours for a response Quinn. Lukem5's taking a little "time out" right now to calm down and collect himself.
Damn! Then he is missing my epic sammich in space.
PyroChixRock
10-17-2013, 08:34 AM
Looking at his posts overall, it seems he set out to see sammich flooding or banstick. If he really was interested in these questions he's been asking, then I hope he finds his manners and returns.
harpentuan
10-17-2013, 08:40 AM
It's a very heavy precision machine with mechanical parts. Enough said.
jw721
10-17-2013, 09:14 AM
You would think someone who is as much of a businessman as he claims he was would have a better idea of how to conduct themselves in public.
Jimi The Don
10-17-2013, 09:35 AM
Kitty!!!!!!
Jimi The Don
10-17-2013, 09:37 AM
also, That Is a Galactic Pussy Sammich..
Jeffs Pieces
10-17-2013, 09:55 AM
is got to be the same dude as the one looking for onies right? there cant be 2....
byron3
10-17-2013, 10:36 AM
Talk about a shit storm of hypocrisy ................... He had a "Top of the Line Vaporizer" that he was looking for some one to make 50 cent bats as a component!! Yeah right, some snot nosed noobs wonky 50 cent bats have got to make that one classy unit!!
Do not worry, he was quite confused anyway, looking for a process engineer that had experience in automated high speed equipment and a background in glass with the ability to combine the 2. I knew he was in for trouble when I spotted that super cooled liquid in a metal lathe ................ just a wee bit confused ....................... if only he had met my demands, I had a solution for him .....................................
you must spread some reputation around before giving it to tlkq again
I swear I posted these pics. In this thread , when this ksa-p was delivered. Someday I will find that thread? Or it got lost to the ages....
Looked like this when it was bought and delivered .
94200
94201
94202
Here is its current state below. I cut it down to a more reasonable 6 foot chuck to chuck. Used a grinder. A torch may have been too much heat and warped the bed. Litton lathes are modular, so it had ribs every few inches with holes already in place for the legs to bolt up.
94203
Built in 1980. Tag says litton ksa-p. Its basicly a standard ksa now. Found it on a industral surplus websight.
Offered them 1k as a joke. I think the list said 6k. They took it. Cost another 1k to deliver it to my friends place. It was 3600 pounds. (Probably part of why it was so cheap, and cost so much to ship. )
This was only a few 4 or 5 years ago. 2017? Honestly I have seen a few great deals on used lathes lately. As far as used equipment in genral I have to admin I don't search the used like I used to.
I know the color market can be a crap shoot lately, anyone have opinions on the prices or availibility of used equipment these days?
I paid about twice what the ksa came for. It did have a service recently and runs nice. Comes with spare bits/ fire carrage, he saved it all.
Do deals exist still? I feel like this one was a good deal. (I just bought it last month, it was in storage the last 2 years.) Yes it came from a friend , but he had it for sale for quite a while as well.
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