Which would you choose given the option: 3 oxycons or a home fill tank system?

[W1ck3d574r]

Hey there. Looking to upgrade my setup again and was looking for advice/suggestions from this fine assemblage of people who also share the passion of the flame.

Currently I'm running a Bravo on a single 20psi/10lpm oxycon which runs the inner flame fine but barely can run the outer flame. I'm considering buying 2 additional oxycons at $570 a pop which from what I've researched can run a Bravo at full flame potential.

Or I was considering going with home fill system which is roughly the same cost as the 2 oxycons and then I can just use my current Oxycon to fill the tank and run off the tank when I work.

Just some background, this is currently a hobby right now for me that I'm looking to expand on and hopefully create some unique glass items worthy of displaying and selling, but first need to get my equipment up to par.

What would you choose in my situation?

[Snow Diesel]

I always read that no oxy cons can compare to tank oxy.
I'm glad I didn't invest in multiple oxycons and didn't get the full potential out of my torch. I went with a homefill and I'm happy. I started on a lynx, went to a bravo and now I'm on a champion and my homefill sure does its job. You choose to upgrade your torch you'll be thinking about more oxycons.
One homefill takes 2 days to fill empty k tank, that's from 0 to 2000psi, I usually don't let my tank go below 500psi and I stop filling at 1500psi, easily achived in a 24hr period.
You could easily get a homefill, and a whip for the price of 2 oxycons. Get a tank of craigslist in a good condition and up to date on hydro test. Look for Homefills on craigslist too!!! I just scored one with 17hrs and oxycon for 200.
Anyways my 2cents. Its only a hobby for me as well.

[W1ck3d574r]

Thanks for the input man. What size tank are you using? Is a K tank a specific size or a range of sizes? I will keep my eyes open on craigslist. I'm assuming since you can just snag it anywhere that you can find it with a good price there is no difference between the home-fill systems they sell for medical patients and the ones used for lamp working? Since it sounds like you have been using this setup for a while is there anything in particular you can advise in terms of setup/maintenance for it?

[Nomad]

get the 3 oxy cons. They last longer and you can run them 24/7.

[Joe Userton]

How much do you plan to run the torch?

With one oxycon filling up one or more tanks, there is still a cap on how much oxygen can be produced in a 24 hour period. If you are using the torch infrequently enough that the tank can charge up between uses, this should work great and allow you to run the torch at full capacity when you use it. 3 concentrators chained together are going to have a fixed maximum pressure and volume depending on what kind you get, this may or may not be enough to fully utilize your torch.

If you do expand later on and find yourself wanting to run a large flame on a daily basis, you might find that one concentrator won't keep up and you'll need to add a second or third anyway to keep the tank charged up.

[Nomad]

I run a bravo. I noticed my foot pedal saves me a lot of oxygen also. It is hooked up to my outer fire. I am going to get 3 oxy cons myself.
Right now I use K tanks and they are a 251 SCF 133 lbs. You can only rent the tanks around here that size. So if they are on craigslist.org they might be stolen.

[Nomad]

Try Available Oxygen on this site. They might offer you a better deal on 3. Plus you can ship them together and save a lot of money as well.

[Deez]

the homefill will fail...they arent meant to be on filliing a tank the size that we use. Get one more oxycon and build a small high volume low pressure setup. search the forum here for info plenty of it!

[Ray]

I have a homefill that runs my torch for about 4-6 hours a day.
I want to work more than that. I'm now getting oxycon's so I can run it at will.

[Mr.P0rn]

In short, probably get the oxycons. In long....

When I had this exact same question, I just calculated the cost of the electricity to fill the K tank to 1500 PSI in 24 hours (people seem to consistently get this rate), and i calculated in maintenance, because I know that you have to have the homefill and concentrator each rebuilt every so often, plus shipping to have it rebuilt, and downtime while you don't have oxygen (or buy a K tank..but for me, that was $40, and they were coming half full).

With the concentrators, i just calculate the electricity that they are using, and add in the same costs for maintenance. In my case, I found that the homefill would give me about 8 hours of work time, and cost about $12 for that 8 hours. I found by buying a single, fancier concentrator, that i could reduce electricity cost (one concentrator vs multiple concentrators, or a homefill and concentrator), work on demand (turn the concentrator on, turn the torch on. no waiting), and it would cost significantly less. This was partially due to the fact that i put 24 hours on the homefill and concentrator respectively for every 8 hours on the torch, but with a nicer fancier concentrator, i only put 8 hours on it for 8 hours of torch time. The nicer concentrator also had a larger window of time between maintenance, which reduced that cost. Extra consideration came from the fact that the nicer concentrator has less moving parts, doesn't breathe while producing oxygen due to more seive beds, and doesn't mind back pressure from the torch. All in all, i bought the really nice concentrator....but all of these things (and probably other things) are considerations you might want to make before deciding. There are a lot of options out there, and a lot of variance to what is right. Also, Beth torches usually run well on concentrators, so this should be considered too.

[LooseSeal Baller]

while i agree the oxycons are probably a better overall choice...

http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/204.htm

most places in the U.S.A only pay 10 cents/kilowatt. the homefill uses less than 1000 watts...

48 hours to fill 250 cu/ft tank @ 10 cents per hour is 4.80$...

yes it will break, they can be fixed, rather easy as well.

if you need more lead time than 24 hr fill can provide(1/2 K tank), solution is to get more tanks.

but yeah, the on demand scenario is better, and will last longer/less headaches, but more upfront cost.

[W1ck3d574r]

I'd say on a normal basis I would like to run it at least 5 days a week for about 4 hours. I would do more but that is difficult with a full-time job to contend with.

I have my current concentrator that is running at 20psi/10lpm, I planned on 2 more with the same stats if I go that way. From what I have seen in specific relation to the Bravo, 3 of these should be enough to run the torch on or close to maximum flame.

It sounds like if I plan to eventually make this a full time gig the concentrators would be the better way to go.

[istandalone24/7]

Sounds to me a homefill would be perfect. Oxycons are great, but the lack of pressure definitely is noticeable. With a bravo, oxycons will work better then say a gtt due to size of ports (Bethlehem is low pressure torches).
But it's nice to have a homefill as you can run any torch you want, as you have tanked oxy. If you do get s homefill, get two tanks and keep one full.


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[W1ck3d574r]

Deez ~

Is there another name for the setup you are referring to? Can't seem to find anything specific using small high volume low pressure setup. Would you mind giving me an idea of the components and composition for this sort of setup? Would help me narrow down what I'm looking for.

[istandalone24/7]

the homefill will fail...they arent meant to be on filliing a tank the size that we use. Get one more oxycon and build a small high volume low pressure setup. search the forum here for info plenty of it!

and they are fully rebuildable. i have about 5k hours on mine....new seal put in the high pressure piston a few months back. yeah, it's noisy. yeah, i fill every night, but having free tanked oxygen is the shit. the high volume systems are great...if you have the electricity to run a kiln, vent, lights, radio, and a huge honking oxygen generating system.

the simple fact that we have options other then airgass makes me grin :)

[W1ck3d574r]

With a home fill system when the tank has been filled is there a release valve for the concentrator to keep it from being damaged from the pressure buildup?

[Nomad]

I work as much as possible. But I think I only get about 30 hours a week out of tanks. It takes me time to exchange them. Plus they are expensive.
So I am working on running the bravo on 3 10 lpm oxy cons. It should be fine.

[istandalone24/7]

on some....the newer ones (and when used with the oxycon it was designed for) do i do believe.

two ways to get around this....one is to install a check valve, two would be to keep the output spout on the oxycon cracked....i do this frequently " just in case " the homefill still gets all the oxy it needs, but if for some reason it stops filling my oxycon doesn't suffer.

likely you won't be filling your tank to full. for one thing, it'll take 48+ hours to fill a tank (most homefill users fill to 1500psi, it's quicker and less stress on compressor) to full and for two, it's major stress on the compressor. better off having a few tanks and keeping them as full as possible. fill while your not working...even if i know i won't be working the next day, i'll still fill overnight that night. i've been told that the more often you use your homefill, the longer it lasts. idk if this is true, but it seems to be. 3 years and 5k hours and still pumping over here :)

[W1ck3d574r]

I've been looking up these HVLP systems and that sounds pretty awesome aside from the compressor noise. I did see one thing on a post that mentioned these compressor pressure switches have a combustible diaphragm when they come in contact with oxygen. Then again the person saying this is also trying to sell his own system so it could just be that. Anyone heard anything about this before?

In term of of a DYI setup does anyone have a link to a parts list and a step by step instruction? Looking at this oxygenfrog site in consideration, but if I can cut costs by building it myself as well as learning the ins and outs I would prefer to do so.

[CrassGlass]

I can't imagine trying to work with three concentrators running. I switched to a Homefill because I couldn't even tolerate the noise produced by just one.. I bought a bunch of stuff to go the low pressure storage system route, but decided I didn't want to mess with it. It's a lot of work and not cheap enough to make sense to me (for my needs) compared to the Homefill.

[Snow Diesel]

I'm still amazed people saying oxycons over tanked (or any other system). Dude is on a bravo right now, talking about hooking up 3 oxycons just to make a bravo work "hopefully" to its full potential. Its just matter of time till he wants to upgrade that torch, THAN WHAT?
Right now this is what I've been working off happily!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/10/67203c7547e3a4cb7fa1263559b33370.jpg
I'm just waiting to justify spending more money right now, but next step is tee'ing these two together.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/10/1d7a181c9f54ae953176413b7a93d933.jpg
Oh wait there's more, two older tanks sitting in the garage waiting to be taken into a gas company to be exchanged for some FRESH hydro test dates.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/10/4df7547fbfc1cd035331df21da9cb639.jpg
So 2 homefills daisy chained to 4 tanks to run this big gas hog (next step up from a bravo). Don't think I'm going to worry about running out of oxygen any time soon, or upgrading to something bigger, or hooking up yet another torch.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/10/053fc2da99d57c963e9602b138302fb7.jpg
I had a bravo and believe it's recomended at 8psi, I loved running mine at 12 to 15. Champion is recommended at 20, well guess what if I want to turn it up to 30, "I CAN"
And I don't know where this electrical math is coming from, I got couple 1000w in veg room running 24 hrs a day, 2 Homefills running 24 hrs a day is little bit less than that. Now add few more 1000w in bloom, and my utility bill is close to someone's estimate of a single homefill running 24 hrs a day.

Sorry guys if I stir up some feathers, but REALLY OXYCONS OVER TANKED?

And craigslist is your FRIEND!!! Seriously!!
BE PATIENT!! Good deals go QUICK.
2 H.F. & 2 Oxycons $450
4 K tanks $320
Brand new parts for whip build, roughly $300

[PhantomGlassGuy808]

I was in the same position, I chose to go the three concentrator route for a few reasons.
I live in Hawaii and nobody fixes anything here so it has to be mailed back to the mainland every time anything goes haywire. Another reason is I already have two, an m-10 and an m-15 but just ordered a 1020 from salt city glass.
I do have a 125 tank as a backup if I need an extra push but it costs me $68 for a fill.
I pay more for shipping than the glass costs me.... Although it is paradise and 82 degrees everyday.
I'm running a Red Max and Scorpion. I'm looking forward to the third to arrive so I can get the most out of my red max.

In the future the plan is a compressed system that I will build.

[Kovacs Glass]

I too would advise the Homefill option. Having tanked O2 gives you a hell of a lot more consistency than just running off of concentrators. It will also allow you to add a hand torch or 2nd burner to the mix.

To the people saying that a Homefill breaks down - sure, it does and will, but fixing one isn't rocket science and shouldn't be treated as such.

If you can go the hvlp route, the go with that. HVLP > Homefill > oxy cons

[LooseSeal Baller]

four o2 generators(concentrators), into an oil-less gast compressor, 80 gallon holding tank, with pressure switch to keep holding tank >50psi.

homefills, fill at a rate of about 2 LPM...(non-modified)

the above mentioned system produces 32 LPM, roughly 16 times the speed of a homefill. A homefill(un-modified) will fill a 250cuft(k-tank) in about 48 hrs.

@~32LPM the o2 system (concentrators and oil-less compressor) can produce 250 cuft (k-tank) in about 3.69 hours...

and the concentrators have readily available parts...don't get me wrong i just rebuilt a homefill from the ground up, but it takes some time to get all the parts lined up.(kovacs knows that)

i had three homefills break on me in one year, all with under 1000hrs. I did fix them, but it was a pain in the ass. My concentrators came with a 3 year warranty.

the homefill i rebuilt last week already has 120 hrs...my boosted concentrators have 39hrs, after about a month or 2 of use...

as for a parts list...

you need enough generators(concentrators) to supply your torch or torches consumption rate. If your torch uses 30 lpm than you would want 30 lpm. 1 CFM=30 LPM, match that number with your free-air requirements of the oil-less compressor. add a holding tank, pressure switch, and relay box.

[dustyg]

you need enough generators(concentrators) to supply your torch or torches consumption rate. If your torch uses 30 lpm than you would want 30 lpm. 1 CFM=30 LPM, match that number with your free-air requirements of the oil-less compressor. add a holding tank, pressure switch, and relay box.

Good info. I'd add, if you use a foot pedal and don't rage your outer fire for hour-long periods, you can get away with 2/3 or 1/2 of the lpm your torch uses at full-flame.

[jr23]

Yep I would go with any method you can afford . You have three cons already so a low volume looks the best route.

But I wish you luck any way you go.

68 bucks a fill is a thing of the past for you .

I wonder if the downturn in oxygen use will cause the stores to get right. There is absolutely no reason why some folks get 15 dollar k tanks and others get above 50.

[Snow Diesel]

By the way just want to clear this up, by no way am I saying Homefills are the best options or best systems or that they are bullet proof.
I was just replying to the op's question of buying 2 more oxycons or a homefill unit ""Roughly the same price""




Currently I'm running a Bravo on a single 20psi/10lpm oxycon which runs the inner flame fine but barely can run the outer flame. I'm considering buying 2 additional oxycons at $570 a pop which from what I've researched can run a Bravo at full flame potential.

Or I was considering going with home fill system which is roughly the same cost as the 2 oxycons and then I can just use my current Oxycon to fill the tank and run off the tank when I work.

What would you choose in my situation?