Kiln striking

[krispysglass]

Hey y'all
Up until now I've gotten away with not having to kiln strike my honeycombs or my i/o frits, but I got an order for some deep purple honeycombs and told that they used to be done primarily in the kiln. Just curious to how others are getting the nice colors. I've been doing my honeys seperate and attaching them, this helped me achieve the effect in the past but these need to be the marble style honeys. Anyways, I will scan the forum more later, I hate to double post questions, I'm just terrible at searching these forums. Thanks for the help!

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

i've never had luck using my "striking" kiln cycle to get color out of combs (but it works great for rubyk, the amber purples etc)....with honeycombs i flame strike and if all else fails, i'll leave the piece in the kiln for a few full normal cycles.

[Paul-C]

my shop mate was constantly having to leave his reds an extra day to get em to strike right

[Skipjack]

Maybe looking at what the glass fusers do will help. The principles should be the same and only the temperatures should be different (these guides are for COE 90).

Effects of temperature on color:
http://www.bullseyeglass.com/methods-ideas/what-to-expect-from-bullseye-glass.html

Striking gold bearing glasses:
http://www.bullseyeglass.com/methods-ideas/gold-bearing-pink-tints.html

[gomilobster]

There are some kiln timings and examples of multiple strikes both encased and watered down various degrees and unencased in glassline. I wonder if it wouldn't be some kind of vague and underhanded blow to post the temps for various strikes that were used in said articles since the actual nice pictures and descriptions of various colors would be left out. I just don't wanna step on toes in one way or another. I also might have to get into some packed up boxes to find the articles temps...

[krispysglass]

Not trying to step on anyone... just got a request for some deep purple honeycombs with a different method then I generally use. I cold pot color, dot and implode, this guy wants more of a marble appeared e with a thick lense. So I am trying to use frit and just can't get the purples like I do when I coil or what he's looking for.

I've tried two striking programs so far, the more intense one was 1150 for 30 min -> 975 for 30 mins -> 1125 for 30 mins and crash... but didn't do squat... nervous to slump but today is going to be strike or bust, running at 1175 for an hour -> 975 for 30 mins -> 1150 for an hour and crash.... we shall see, just hope I don't slump anything, I read as high as 1250 on northstar ' s striking guide, but these are pipes not marbles :eek:

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

it's hard to get the a/p type colors to get good color under encasement. the brand of clear you use matters, whether any sort of reduction flame touched the frit matters, your flame chemistry while condensing/imploding matters (even though it's under clear, i've been told again and again that flame chemistry does matter, even under encasement).
so many factors when striking a silver color.
but if all else fails, put it in the back of the kiln for a few cycles. it should make the color pop more.

[Swim]

Not trying to step on anyone... just got a request for some deep purple honeycombs with a different method then I generally use. I cold pot color, dot and implode, this guy wants more of a marble appeared e with a thick lense. So I am trying to use frit and just can't get the purples like I do when I coil or what he's looking for.

I've tried two striking programs so far, the more intense one was 1150 for 30 min -> 975 for 30 mins -> 1125 for 30 mins and crash... but didn't do squat... nervous to slump but today is going to be strike or bust, running at 1175 for an hour -> 975 for 30 mins -> 1150 for an hour and crash.... we shall see, just hope I don't slump anything, I read as high as 1250 on northstar ' s striking guide, but these are pipes not marbles :eek:

www.kaglass.com

post a picture homie

[Nomad]

I strike my colors with the kiln. 20 minutes at 1200 degrees . Then aneal them at 1050 for 30 minutes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nomad]

Makes nice ruby red .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[krispysglass]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/13/29b4f14d1b76633ca28397d79bea52af.jpg77359

Customer wants something more like these 77360

I've been doing combs since I started and have wanted to learn these for a while just worked out that I could get an order too... guess the previous dude got sick of making them and gave the go ahead for something to cover the line... but ya thanks for the convo everyone that's posted

www.kaglass.com

[krispysglass]

These are my normal ones77361

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

have you tried purple luster frit?

[krispysglass]

Nah I haven't just amber and double amber

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

i don't think you'll be able to get that dark a purple out of ap or dap.
do you by any chance know what was used by way of color on the combs that you're looking to achieve?

[krispysglass]

Told double amber but on simax, I'm using chinease cuz it's all I happen to have for this sizing and I also generally use schott so tomorrow I get my simax and simax rods, I will post the difference if it's as dramatic as people are saying

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

That's just it, if you are used to fuming on schott or Asian clear, the first few simax fume sessions might not come out great. Needs to be treated a bit different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Swim]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/13/29b4f14d1b76633ca28397d79bea52af.jpg77359

Customer wants something more like these 77360

I've been doing combs since I started and have wanted to learn these for a while just worked out that I could get an order too... guess the previous dude got sick of making them and gave the go ahead for something to cover the line... but ya thanks for the convo everyone that's posted

www.kaglass.com

its not a silver strike, that was what I was wondering. i have tried to do that alot. there is a stickered thread about silver striking. if you can pull that shit off, it will probably be more appealing than this frit comb that is pictured

[Swim]

These are my normal ones77361

www.kaglass.com

this is honestly the most appealling of the three. I missed the one on top in the other picture, and that one looks pretty wack, its got the look of a mixture of yellow and orange maybe??

[krispysglass]

Ya that first picture was an attempt with 5mm schott rod for dots, has a nice pattern but not easily seen... hoping this schott switch makes a difference, I mean the combs are on point pattern wise as can be seen in the rod comb that pops, and I did blow the frit paper thin, some bench striking attempts that got some purple barely coming out, but after the kiln everyone is bland and yellow. I'll be blown away if schott makes that much of a difference, it will open up my mind a bunch as to the chemistry of everything. I did scope out that fume tech thread and learned a lot, just not super applicable here imo just cuz the idea is the flow from the piece as one whole piece rather then a cap... idk I'll post some pics saturday of the strike from the schott combs and tomorrow of these ones I have currently after an intense cycle

www.kaglass.com

[Swim]

There is a thread on here that is stickied, and its about striking silver into combs and other things. You should read it if you havent. that is really where I got the technique from. I cannot pull off the silver striking, yet

[istandalone24/7]

this is the darkest i've been able to kiln strike a/p frit. i have no dap frit though...need to get some and try it out.
77362

[istandalone24/7]

actually that may be the wrong pic..let me dig around and see what i can find. i have a pic of a decently purple honeycomb made from a/p frit, somewhere.

[krispysglass]

Anychance you'd be willing to share your kiln schedule

www.kaglass.com

[istandalone24/7]

I garage at 1000f, ramp up full power to 1125 and hold for 20 minutes, ramp down to 1050 for ? (For big marbles could be a few hours, pipes 45 minutes), ramp down slow (125f an hour) to 980 and hold for 30 minutes, ramp down slow (100f hour) to 400f then off and don't open until room temp.

Take this schedule with a grain of salt, it was in the controller when I bought the kiln and was told it was a decent striking and annealing schedule for boro.

I have yet to play with going slowly above and below 1100f (the magic # when silver crystals grow iirc, I may be wrong about that temp) to do a multiple strike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[istandalone24/7]

And I can't for the life of me find the pic I want. That may be it, but a/p rod coil potted instead of blown out frit. Probably in my old phone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mattholimeau]

I strike my colors with the kiln. 20 minutes at 1200 degrees . Then aneal them at 1050 for 30 minutes.

Saying "anneal at 1050" means you don't know what the word anneal means. From google: anneal (verb):"heat (metal or glass) and allow it to cool slowly, in order to remove internal stresses and toughen it." You can't anneal at a specific temperature - anneal is the process of cooling it, you have to anneal at a range. I anneal from 1050 to 930. (Sorry that this gripe of mine is a bit off topic.) Maybe the word you're looking for is that you soak them at 1050 for 30 minutes. (And then what, let it crash? Bad mojo there.)


I garage at 1000f, ramp up full power to 1125 and hold for 20 minutes, ramp down to 1050 for ? (For big marbles could be a few hours, pipes 45 minutes), ramp down slow (125f an hour) to 980 and hold for 30 minutes, ramp down slow (100f hour) to 400f then off and don't open until room temp.
istandalone - not sure if I'm reading this right, do you slowly ramp from 1125 to 1050 over a few hours to 45 min, or do you crash it from 1125 to 1050 and then hold it at 1050 for a few ours to 45min? Based on what I've read, it would be a waste of electricity to slowly go from 1125 to 1050, as you're still above the temp at which internal stresses are relieved. (But if you're saying to crash then hold at 1050 for a while, that makes sense.)

Also, seems it might be an electricity waste to slow cool all the way down to 400 - I've read that once you're lower than 930, the glass has hardened to the point where cooling fast(er) isn't going to cause any additional stress. I slow cool from 1050 to 930 then crash it. The closed some coal plants, so electricity isn't all that cheap! You could potentially save a bit of money if you take the half hour to learn how to reprogram your controller. (It's really not all that complicated, even if it seems a little daunting at first.... and when I say it's daunting, I mean it was daunting to me at first, so I put it off for a few days after first getting my kiln... but after sitting down and picking up the manual, about 20 minutes later I was all "oh, this is freaking simple".

(Disclaimer: everything I'm saying is based on my understanding of Bandhu's charts - if you think I'm wrong, please let me know!)

[istandalone24/7]

Full power ramp down between 1125 and 1050. Either I typed it wrong or you misunderstood. Either way the amt of time spent at 1050f is dictated by the thickness. 2" marble I'll soak for 2 hours at 1050. Pipes, maybe 20 or 30 minutes.

Have had nothing but good luck using this program, any cracking is user error at least so far.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[istandalone24/7]

I know exactly how to program a sentry express, I have no need to because this works fine.
Nor do I intend to debate whether it's a legit annealing schedule or not, like i said it works for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[krispysglass]

Alright guys, OP here, million ways to skin a cat...

As for me I crash from 1050 for most prodo other then i/os with greens I soak at 975 for 20 mins on its way down, I keep the kiln closed obviously and it's insulated just fine to the point that it's still over 100 in the morning when I get in and haven't hadn't any problems either... I am having problems with striking lol, all that I was trying to ask about... but either way now my day shifter and I can't run too hot tonight, some thinner stuff will be in there so I'll post saturday or Sunday whenever I get around to having the space to run 1200 don't trust it with simple fumies too thin, anyways

www.kaglass.com

[krispysglass]

Alright no pictures even worth taking, got some slight green hues to come out had the cycle got to 1200 for 30 down to 975 for 15 then back to 1200 for 30... going to just go all out Sunday night as I won't be working on anything else and will try a 1250 for an hour with a couple pieces, if they slump oh well if they strike sweet deal... simax arrives end of day today so I'll mess with those tomorrow as well and will have a side by side comparison of China vs simax really hope it's a bug of a difference as everyone is saying

www.kaglass.com

[Nomad]

They taught me at the studio in the corning museum of glass to soak the glass at 1050 for about 30 minutes. Which in the equation is for up to 1/4 of an inch of glass thickness. I strike the color at 1200 in the kiln just as northstar color guide says to do for there colors. To be more specific.

[BORO]

Mattholimeau Your not totally correct, not totally wrong either.

There is a second stress point in the mid 400's. ( I'm too busy to find it. )

First you say you can't anneal at a certain temp, then you say its a waste to hold above 1050, because your still reliving stress. (annealing )

You DO anneal at 1050.imo.

" You could anneal at 975, but it would take a very very long time." -brads quote.

You know what I'm spittin...... you have to get, and keep the glass hot enough, so it will relieve the stress. Coefficient needs to be in a expanded state . You can't really anneal at 900* but that google quote implies you could as long as you slow cool.

Just because the kiln says 900* the glass can be much hotter, or much cooler. Hard to say what the temp of your glass is. The kiln air may read 900* the piece may be at 1100* if Its in a kiln that just got turned off.

Just because you did a slower cool from 1050, and another crashes it, the glass still walks down through the same temps. (hell I pull hot shit out and bench cool, if it soaked at 1050 for a good amount of time, I have not seen a difference under the scope. ) thickness has more to do with it than anything. Imo.


Kiln crashing , is prefered for certain colors. (see that t.a.g. Sticky in the color room)


I'm not trying to be a dick, and I'm not right or wrong either. Unfortunately just a lot more to think about than "kiln temp cycle "

There is some reading in the higher learning room. (coefficient stuff)

[brads]

Mattholimeau Your not totally correct. Sorry.

There is a second stress point in the mid 400's. ( I'm too busy to find it. )

As much as I respect your opinion and knowledge BoRo, I'm going to have to dispute this particular statement - at least in regard to clear boro. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of ceramics, not glass. Specifically the inversion temperature of cristobalite, which takes place in the mid-400F temperature range you mentioned. This doesn't (shouldn't?) happen with glass we are likely to use, with the possible exception of a phase-separated glass, either one that has spent far too much time in the annealer, or maybe some colors. If your clear glass has converted to cristobalite, you've likely screwed things up tremendously. Some colors may phase separate naturally, although I can't point to any where one might need to worry about cristobalite inversion. However, they may possibly exist.

On the other hand, those who like to encase opal in their work would need to think about this, as opal frequently does contain cristobalite.

Regarding annealing and cooling time, your statement "thickness has more to do with it than anything" is dead on the money.

[Dom]

Silver fume, flame strike..

[piedpiper608]

Not trying to step on anyone... just got a request for some deep purple honeycombs with a different method then I generally use. I cold pot color, dot and implode, this guy wants more of a marble appeared e with a thick lense. So I am trying to use frit and just can't get the purples like I do when I coil or what he's looking for.



www.kaglass.com
I've been use purple luster frit for my honeycombs, give a really nice range on blue green and purple
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/15/468dc792fe7185981166c914a029bc77.jpg

[krispysglass]

Those are some color

www.kaglass.com

[BORO]

I was hesitant to post at all ( thread jack drama )

I imagine Brads is correct. Like everyone , I'm still learning.

I DO KNOW for sure I read in a few places , about a stress point in the 400's ... I will totally do my part and link some old comments... I have a long car ride today, I just might find them.

[LooseSeal Baller]

the plot thickens...:chilling:

i was told there is another stress point also, i'm interested to see what the outcome of this debate is.

it would make a good thread for the "higher learning", since random posters cant come in and detour the subject, if that's what you're worried about.

[330G]

krispy. if you havent found the link. this is the best honeycomb thread on here. http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?39816-The-Evolution-of-Honeycombs-quot-The-Quest-of-The-Perfect-Color-quot&highlight=honeycomb

i think the ones your customer is wanting is tube implosion honeycomb not so much on the surface like the one you pictured. Hope you figure it out. best of luck.

[Swim]

the fuck is higher learning? learning while high?? I can do that

[krispysglass]

330G interesting thought, I would get a chance to look at one first hand on Thursday so will definetly be looking for that. And ya the pattern just doesn't match up to how I do them, thanks a bunch.

I did see that thread, it's super dope for sure, but it's all fume based, very similar yet quite different too, but ya picked up a few things from it, will mess around with those down the road when I get some time, feast of famine as they say and right now I'm over booked out the ass... good problem to have for sure...

Thanks ya all for taking the time to have this convo always nice to have threads go for more then a few comments

www.kaglass.com

[Nomad]

Being booked is good. Same as me I presume ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nomad]

I have to find time for a gallery and a skate shop that sells pipes locally . As well as the same distributor as you. It is hectic and a very hot time of the year. Good luck buddy! Nice to hear you are doing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[krispysglass]

Pics to come tomorrow, but so far it looks like simax was the cure, hopefully not getting ahead of myself but there are some rich purples growing right off the torch even with out intentially torch striking them... I'll post pics first thing tomorrow

www.kaglass.com

[krispysglass]

Well nevermind, got a bit ahead of myself, no difference, still the same... think I will be passing on these for now

www.kaglass.com