Customer feedback for Carlisle - Please vote!

[PyroChixRock]

Carlisle, a lot of people have shown concern about the name of your torch. It’s getting negative publicity because of the name, not the design. Because we know you’d want to know this, we’re taking a poll to send you in the mail if you do not see this post. We hope you’d take into consideration what people have to say, and you never know, it may help your sales. ;)



Votes will be public for this, so they can see it’s really people voting. If you have anything to add to send them with the letter please do, I’ll print it all when I mail it.

[Greymatter Glass]

I would vote yes but the word offend bothers me. I'm not offended by the name as much as I am kinda annoyed byit I guess. It's one of those roll yer eyes and say "oh no, not again" I guess I kinda fueled the fire.

I think they should change it, but it's not offensive, not in a strict/stern way anyways.... it may be offensive to W&W, they're the only ones I could imagine getting ourtright offended.

I think it's just a bit unsportsmanlike, and I'm left to wonder why would Carlise name a torch _____cat for any purpose other than some kind of move on GTT sales. If it's purely a mistake, then I have to question how in touch Carlise is with the artist market, and why they're not doing their research before introducing a new product.

Anyways didnt mean for this to get so ranted out and blown up...

-Doug

[PyroChixRock]

I could change the poll, I didn't really know how to word it. Check in a sec.

Better?

[NUBBLET]

Carlisle , in my opinion builds them like tanks ( not saying others dont ) . They have that ruff rugged , go ahead hit it with a hammer look to them . Why not go for WW2 tank names (which I cant think of one simular to GTT names) . Hellspawn would be a cool torch name , came from fire only to create fire (assuming there is smelting or casting done not just machine work) , molten metal being formed to turn glass molten .

and yes the word offend was ify to me but I still voted , much better .

[Greymatter Glass]

Much better... and I'd be more likely to buy a CC++ if they renamed it the Panzer :P

Or a Howitzer... cannons/artillary/tanks would be perfect for Carlise... good call Nubbs

-Doug

[Greymatter Glass]

oh with a camo base and gun sights

[Islandglass Man]

So you are hosting a poll to change the name of a torch named after a world war 2 fighter plane just because the title has cat in it, just because GTT has used some cat names also. Very unprofessional!

Bear

[NUBBLET]

How professional would it be for PEPSI COLA to come out with a new formula , and then call it KOCHEH COLA ? Even color companies try to name their colors a little different , we all know Amber Purple and Double Amber Purple are the same as Purple Luster and Triple Passion , but at least they try not to tread on toes . Although colors and torches should almost reverse this scheme , I bought I don't know how much of the same color under a different name from another co. , it will get get used , while I would hate to see a torch and only be able to remember it was ____cat or just it was named from some bird, "hmm maybe the Firebird " then upon arrival realizing this is not what the guy at the fair or whoever had , which could quite easily discourage someone from continuing to learn the art . I think it is extremely professional to offer honest and well intended feedback to manufacturers and suppliers , I can think of one incident on here where feedback from independent sources and consumers caused a supplier to up the ante and stop carrying a product to be replaced by a more reliable and more safe product . Information of the market is how companies direct their R&D and product more efficiently .

[bc]

honestly, I read about this new torch but really could care less what they name it. And I don't like carlisles! I would actually say it's getting worse reviews than the name, but that's another thread. Is this really a thread?

And, if we want to talk about knocking off something(name or form), perhaps we should look at ourselves(including me.)

bear couldn't be more right!

bc

[Mike_Aurelius]

I'm going to regret this, but part of what is going on here is reaction to GTT's attack dog mentality. Say something bad about a GTT torch and not only do you get the dyed in the wool GTT users hammering on you, but you also get girlfiends and knowitalls hammering on you. Several months ago the girlfriend took offense at an innocent comment that was made by the Carlisle Guy on the WaterCloset. She hammered him with one of the most vicious attacks I've ever seen.

Is it any wonder to anyone why they named it the WildCat? I think it is to honor the girlfriend.

[PyroChixRock]

Guard dogs or not, the name offends/annoys/upsets people. It doesn't only upset people because of their loyalty to GTT, it upsets them for other reasons as mentioned. I too am one of those other reasons.

I LOVE Carlisle’s, I do really I'm not joking. I want to see the company make torches people will buy. If they had a killer torch I could afford for my kid before the lynx I'd be all over it in a heart beat. I'd hate to see people NOT buy a good torch just because of the name.

Being a loyal customer of Carlisle for 10 years (and also a guard dog ;) ), I am recommending to them that they change the name to avoid bad publicity. It’s as simple as that for me…matt on the other hand is probably a gtt guard dog! :lol

[Coffee Break]

who cares about the name?w+w are gonna be ass-out when someone develops competitive heat. worst business model,ever!

[Julian]

As far as the name of the torch, it's lame but I don't care if they change it or not. As someone pointed out, going from 'CC' and Mini CC' to all of sudden 'Wild Cat" is kind of silly. Oh well ...Carlisle makes it clear who is the target of their competition. It's a plane? Um... who knows that upon hearing it?

Mike, um, "GTT" has an 'attack dog mentality'??
The support they have is indicative of how highly the public feels about their products, as it is neither W&W nor their personal friends who feel compelled to defend them in forums. Nor is it ever mysterious anonymous individuals. It's nothing like criticizing some other vendors.

"Worst business model ever"?
Yep , patent something, and compete using the patent rather than with good prices and service. They would really have to scramble if other people could use their design.
I don't think they take unreasonable advantage of their triple mix monopoly, though. When you build a sought after handmade product, and can't keep up with demand - how many fricking torches do these guys sell?- and will not compromise quality - well, the items get backordered. Look at W&W service on their torches also - do other companies clean and refurbish for free?

Personally, I used a Mirage for 5 years, but now I use a Herbert Arnold 50 and a Lynx hand torch.

[Dog Squeez]

Willy & Wally have a great product, I have a mirage and love it. Also have a
Herbie, I only use the Mirage now.

The name of the new Carlisle no way infringes on GTT's product names,
GTT has changed thier name patern a couple of times, first cats, then
spirits (ghosts), and now snakes, (kinda cool). So now I guess, according
to those upset with Carlisle, no one can use names associated with those
themes either.

[Greymatter Glass]

I can name another company that goes to defcon 5 when threatend... (god that was a great year for that con...alas, I digress)

back on track...


For the record, I never meant for this to be a BIG deal... I just think it's rather rediculous that there's yet another _____cat torch on the market. That's all.

I own a Carlise, and I've talked to several of their reps at shows, they're great people and well intentioned.

I do not own a GTT torch, but I have met Willy (or was it wally? god I don't even know them apart) at shows and he's a great guy as well. He's also dedicated to providing a top quality product to artists.

I agree Carlise has the better business model.... So what? It's obvious that whatever GTT does is working for enough people that they get voluntary attack dogs who don't even own their torches.

GTT _IS_ the little guy in this game, as much as Aura Lens, Pacific Boro, Generations, Eugene Rain, Dichro Alchemy (everyone I left out)... are all the little guys.... there isn't really a walmart of glass yet (well, bullseye/northsra/glass alchemy/corning/schott/etc are the big guys)

How would any of you feel if someone came along and started selling a product in your market that could clearly be mis-identified as your product in name?

Just because soda/car/shoe companies do it doesn't mean we have to stoop to that level.

We let this continue in our industry and soon we'll be using made in china plastic "Aeura Lens Co" AWQ-386's on our made in Korea GGT Flamecat torch working ...oh shit... "Euromax" glass made in china, that goes into a Made in Mexico digital kiln

Eventually it'll all be sold in Wal*mart and every small time glass blower will be reduced to a hobbyist. The small guys will blow away...

Personally, that just doesn't appeal to me....

Again... I just think it's another damn ____cat torch, and I think it's lame.

If they wanted a plane name, why not Mustang, or Concorde, or spirfire...

OH! DIBS ON SPITFIRE

I'm gonna go make a Spitfire torch right now (or Carlise can buy the name from me for their Wildcat for the cost of a new CC++ muaahahahaha)

gotta run...gotta torch to make.

-Doug

[Mike_Aurelius]

Yep , patent something, and compete using the patent rather than with good prices and service. They would really have to scramble if other people could use their design.

That's interesting that you should bring that up, Julian. My patent has been available for licensing since the day it was formally issued. I have always been open to a license agreement, in fact, the day it was formally issued, my attorney extended a courtsey invitation to Phillips to apply for a license. They never responded. We've discussed licensing with several other optical companies, and one is in serious negotiations right now.

Can GTT say the same?

[WORLD FAMOUS]

Someone's sounding a little jealous...<<<sarcasm!

[Coffee Break]

julian,how many torches DO these guys sell?i have been on delta list for nearly a year...i want their product,badly...but it's not available to cats with cash.. it's bad business. i wish i could go delta,will have to go herbie,another highly demanded patented product.somehow they manufacture them at a rate to where you can buy one if you have the cash.that's good business.

[JANKYglass]

no such thing as bad publicity.
and by posting here i'm fueling the free commercial for the new carlisle torch that every glass blower with a computer will know about by monday.

[NUBBLET]

Obviously a lot of people on here have NEVER been the little dog . If nobody (artists) was stepping in on GTTs market , would there be ANY "attack dogs" , NO . Maybe we should get the EGW-286 , from ,"Aeura Lens Co" , that seems to be the mentality of people on here .

Bottom line , people need to realize how they would feel if say Kobuki or Bandhu , came to their town and filled the shops up with a product that just by the name could be mistaken for your work . Shit look at Gateson , "galaxy" , we ALL stood up when he had his toes stepped on . Look at the fuckers using YOUR pictures , did any of you appreciate that . I see ,now that it is directed at a co. that has and is striving for a high quality , top performance ,long lasting product , WHO CARES .

They started in their garage , and have a small crew , naturally if there is a high demand , they get behind , but will eventually catch up . Not to mention , even color cos. get behind , because whatever color sold better than expected . Is this bad bussiness ? I say no , it means that this product must be good , the best reviews come from watching the market as a whole .

I have pointed this out before , but I ordered my Mirage from FRANTZ , and recieved it within 3 days of the order . Then a friend ordered a Bobcat , samething within 3 days . They are one that stock GTT on shelf . Talk to JED , he will hook you up .


For any interested I will be selling 2 liters of pipsi coola for 50cents , starting august 11 , 2005 . PM with odrers .

[WORLD FAMOUS]

I've heard Jesse James has a 2 year waiting list to get one of his motorcycles right now...what do you think he would say if you called him all the time and told him you've been waiting way too long...He knows if YOU stop waiting, YOU lose out, not HIM. Plain and simple. There will be 5 new people geting on the same list that are willing to wait for a superior quality product, by the time you call to get off of it. Sorry, but supply and demand isn't always about $$$.

[NUBBLET]

Well stated Tokin , quality counts.

[Greymatter Glass]

Shit man, Harley Davidson has a waiting list.

You gotta wait for 6 months to get a prius.

[IrieGuy05]

"julian,how many torches DO these guys sell?i have been on delta list for nearly a year...i want their product,badly...but it's not available to cats with cash.. it's bad business. i wish i could go delta,will have to go herbie,another highly demanded patented product.somehow they manufacture them at a rate to where you can buy one if you have the cash.that's good business."
I can't understand how you've waited a year for a delta, if you had been on all the lists I'm sure you would have got one. Frantz and Arrow Springs kept calling me back with a phantom and Mirage for 2 weeks after it came in. The wait is not that bad. I should speak cause I couldn't wait but it was only 2-3 weeks from when I on the lists.

[Islandglass Man]

Carlisle, a lot of people have shown concern about the name of your torch. It’s getting negative publicity because of the name, not the design. Because we know you’d want to know this, we’re taking a poll to send you in the mail if you do not see this post. We hope you’d take into consideration what people have to say, and you never know, it may help your sales. ;)



Votes will be public for this, so they can see it’s really people voting. If you have anything to add to send them with the letter please do, I’ll print it all when I mail it.

Misha
I hope you will stand by your word and send this poll to Charlisle. This is by far the worst example of product bashing I have seen.

As usual a few GTT people have done more damage to the GTT reputation.
How many time to I have to hear the same dogma. Why don't you just put up a page for winning GTT owners.

Bear

[Julian]

Bear, the GTT reputation is about torches.. and the quality of the torches.
If anyone doesn't want a GTT because of how their fans act on a forum, then .... hahah ahha!
This is not 'product bashing' ... just 'naming bashing' as far as I can tell.
We're all still hoping to hear more about this torch. I'm interested in the cooling system. I'd like to try one.
I believe it was mentioned earlier that this torch lacks a good pinpoint flame, which is a severe shortcoming if that is true. If theres no good pinpoint flame, then why release it? Thats one of the key points of the Lynx.

As far as GTT vs. Herbert Arnold, "Coffee Break": you are comparing a midsize German corporation with two American brothers who build each torch by hand? If you want a mass produced torch, go ahead and get one.
Willy and Wally do their business like artists. It's not the best business model, no, its clearly a matter of personal pride for them. I certainly know how they feel - my glass has been severely backordered before, and I've had to turn down orders and make people wait. As you know, handmade items that last take time to make.

[Dale M.]

I'm going to regret this, but part of what is going on here is reaction to GTT's attack dog mentality. Say something bad about a GTT torch and not only do you get the dyed in the wool GTT users hammering on you, but you also get girlfiends and knowitalls hammering on you. Several months ago the girlfriend took offense at an innocent comment that was made by the Carlisle Guy on the WaterCloset. She hammered him with one of the most vicious attacks I've ever seen.

Is it any wonder to anyone why they named it the WildCat? I think it is to honor the girlfriend.

And Carlisle got it blown away by system admins!....

Dale

[Coffee Break]

suffice it to say,irie guy,that these torches are sold on an extremely arbitrary basis.that is how i wait over a year.everytime i call,i am given a date 6 to 12 weeks from date of call.repeat this step 4 to 6 times...it adds up.i am a "nobody" in the world of lampworking,and don't have friendly "connections" to them.i AM(was?) on the list at arrow springs and frantz and i think maybe even DA(coe 33).i am a parent,and i blow glass for a living,so i can only call and "refresh" my presence on these lists so often. i must also admit i'm not so ballin' that i could endlessly keep 2500 bucks in reserve.there were times when they could have called me and i wouldn't have had the cash.however,this has never come up...
i realize that to those of you who have had a relatively easy time acquiring your gtt's,this sounds like bitchy haterism...IT IS! i want one....can't have one,might as well be fictional.nothing personal to w+w...obviously it is not about money to them,but i'm trying to handle my biz over here.my money should be the only leverage i need to cop one.no offense to the gtt defenders...

[IrieGuy05]

Weird, I'm a nobody lampworker too...

[steven p selchow]

Funny shit..I leave for a day or two and have some drama to catch up on.

As the poll indicates, leave it named the same.

As I talked to Willy at agi last year, he is a real down to earth person who I only beleive wants to be left alone and his product not infringed upon, reasonable request.

The problem if I'm not mistaken is DESIGN, not names.

If carlisle makes a copy of the gtt design and calls it a wildcat, thats blatent...however just to call a torch the wildcat (weather named after a wwII fighter aircraft or a big game cat) has no bearing on gtt as a whole...its only a name, I don't think gtt has trademarked animals to represent their torches yet..only the design, which if mine, would defend vigorusly.

No one is going to confuse a carlisle wildcat to a future unnamed gtt torch.

Has carlisle represented this as a gtt? No.

Its all about design, not names..now I'm going to go fire up my ju 144 wolfpack..and make some serious sculpture.

[Chris Carlson]

why does everyone care so much? i wouldnt have even heard of it, if it wasnt for this thread (as said by JANKY) so props to carlisle for creating such a stir, willingly or not. i could give a shit less what its called, just what it does. i'm on a gtt list too, but i'm not fucking in love with willy & wally enough to defend their animal named torches. the carlisle sounds more like a fighter plane than a cheetah or bobcat anyway. meh. oh yeah, and jesse james is a dork.

[Chris Carlson]

i guess steven elchow pretty much said the same thing as me, sorry. i shoulda read it all. who knows what kind of torch nomad uses. fuck all the cool name torches. i want what he has. the nomad by gtt. i'm first on the list.

[WORLD FAMOUS]

I'm tired of everyone assuming ALL GTT owners are assholes. What's 'very unprofessional' is lumping all the GTT owners into one category of 'jerks' simply because of the product they choose to defend. I know there are extremists, but there always are, and for nearly every product. Look at CC just 3 years ago, before GTT really came up. Everyone would get PISSED if you even mentioned getting another torch. This is NOT one-sided bashing at all, it takes two to Tango my GTT bashing friends.

And Bear, chill out! - you're gonna have a stroke or something...it's not the end of the world. You can have your CC+ and I promise not to look down on you for it...sheesh. I got loads and loads of respect for you and your skills (just from watching you at agi last year), and I'll buy you a drink at this AGI if you can stand sitting at the same table as me before getting to know me. I don't judge people by the torch they use, I promise! You'll see we're not all one-track/torch minded individuals. Ask Ron Jr. - He and I go back and forth on a weekly basis, but I'm not about to tell him that his torch sucks - he rocks it. He can't tell me my torch sucks either, because I rock it! There is a torch for everyone, and it may or may NOT be a GTT. Surprise!

And the Jesse James thing was a just reference for perspective. I could have used any celebrity chopper builder's name...

[Chris Carlson]

nate!! what up, you still comin out? i was just bashin jesse james a little cuz everyone is so on his jock. i live 10 min. from his shop and have been around his stuff WAY before it was cool and popular, so it just drives me crazy what a sellout dork he is. i wish he still built bikes, hes amazing at that. he sucks in autozone commercials. PS. i cant wait to get my gtt!!! i got to use art's to pull ONE point, and i was convinced. AWESOME TORCH. hopefully i get the D.MAG. its gonna be fun. if anything, the cat reference is only saluting what a fine torch the GTT is.

[NUBBLET]

I am too a nobody lampworker . I dont even have a GP or GA page yet . I did get a small run around , then I asked for JED , I had spoke to him before . I told him about the other girl working there , giving half ass answers and "I think there may be one the customer didnt pick up yet " , He said "What , they have no clue what they are saying , I have two on the shelf one I think is spoken for , just waitng to hear back , as we left a message it was in "

Call me a GTT attack dog if you all want , I have a father who started out just like W&W , so I have seen what a quality controlled bussiness has to offer . He now sponsors a whole series of drag racing , after starting in his garage with ONE buddy (Larry the Leprachaun) , and building it into a worldwide quality controlled bussiness . It does take time , he has had to put in 25- 30 years of HARD ass work 5am - 10pm 5-6 days a week some even 7 days, and every big established company just trying to knock him out daily . He has like W&W innovated the industry , has his own gear system out and axles , has built numerous worldrecord holding cars , and done work for numerous top name racers both drag and track including Shirley Muldowney, Earnhardt Sr .... and after all this he still is a hard ass about quality .

I guess I may take it a little harder , for that reason , having seen what LARGE already established well known bussinesses try to do to the little and HOT newcomers , like my dad or W&W .

I dont hate ANY manufacturer , just think the game should be fair . I dont care for Wale , after the blatent firebird rip-off , but still dont hate .

[WORLD FAMOUS]

Just to point out also...'Innovation' is usually spawned from 'imitation'...improving on something is to be expected and very respectable. Blatently ripping it off in a deliberate attempt to cop sales is not (not referring to the wildcat).

Is Carlisle going to be making some bigger torches with this new port design? With other cool fighter jet names - The Top Gun? The Maverick? I don't know my war planes obviously. How about including some pin-up chicks and other war plane style decals or maybe have it come with a bomber jacket...yea! Could be interesting to see what they do, especially if they improve the centerfire over what was reported.

[NUBBLET]

the design is innovative , the name is not. go with "the Warthog" or some new STYLE name . Why not start in on mythology names of Gods or heroes , or as I mentioned WW2 tanks ( they are built like them) .

One person had mentioned the reviews for it are not so good , is it then a possibility by remembering , "that torch I saw , with the CAT name sucks " - " it looks like GTT is the one or main one that has CAT names , it must have been a GTT " - "Yeah I think I will go with _____ instead "

Or buying a torch ,you just saw at a shop or fair or ...(which the guy was on a Cheetah or Pheonix "What was the name , something like a CAT or BIRD " - "oh here , the FireBIRD" - "damn this seems way smaller than the one he had" or "Oh here it is , the WildCAT " - "hey this doesnt even look like the one I saw "

This is an example of what COULD happen , and reasons , I think it should be changed .

[Lacross]

If they don't want to change the name ,they don't have to. To change the name just 'cause a few people are "annoyed" is ridiculous.What a bunch of whiners. If the name was somehow illegal to use,that would be another story,but it's not. Get over it.

[bizzy]

Exactly... most of the people (if not all) whining about it probably don't have a Carlisle torch too. Why would Carlisle care what a bunch of ppl think who (probably) don't even use their products?!?!

[Grandflush]

They should call it the "Terradactal", Carlisles are dinosaurs from the prehistoric lampwork age. Will they go extinct at any time soon? I doubt it the way they are built.

[Harry Paratesteez]

Carlisle........... Just Rename the new torch "Crotch Rocket" and stop this craaaaap!


Piece,
MAtt



"Let the streets run with the blood of non belivers"

[kbinkster]

I'm going to regret this, but part of what is going on here is reaction to GTT's attack dog mentality. Say something bad about a GTT torch and not only do you get the dyed in the wool GTT users hammering on you, but you also get girlfiends and knowitalls hammering on you. Several months ago the girlfriend took offense at an innocent comment that was made by the Carlisle Guy on the WaterCloset. She hammered him with one of the most vicious attacks I've ever seen.

Is it any wonder to anyone why they named it the WildCat? I think it is to honor the girlfriend.

Since I was dragged into this, I’m going to have to say something here… You leave me no choice.

What, precisely, is your problem, Sparky? Are you having a slow day? I haven't said one word regarding the torch name in question and you get your panties in a knot and drag me into this. What do you care what I said in defense to a personal attack by the Carlisle rep (which was very shocking to me considering that I have met this man in person and he was very cordial to my face)? It's funny how you know so much about what goes on in a forum where you have been banned and claim to dislike so much. The same thing goes for your friend, Dale, too. It’s funny that the only comment he has made on this thread thus far is about me and that post, not about the name of a torch. Wow, on the other forums he has always been billed as a reliable source for important information. I would hardly think that something I posted (that was subsequently pulled – unless you are referring to another response to a personal attack) would be deemed as important enough for his commentary. Who would have thunk it?

You know, I think that you set the stage for drama. You are just stirring the pot. You are a pot stirrer. You come on here and announce to the world the arrival of a torch that you, a lampworking supply vendor, don’t even carry. You then make a snide remark concerning the name and the GTT connection and take a stab at GTT (one of your favorite hobbies, it would appear). Then, you wait and let the situation fester. You wait a little more, while the comments are coming in, and then take a stab at me. And for what reason? I have done nothing to you. Perhaps this is just part of the natural ebb and flow of your personality. You extend the olive branch with one hand while the other is behind your back with your fingers crossed. Well, you can clearly see all of my fingers because the gloves are off, Chatty Cathy.

Anyway… regarding the rest this thread…

I think it’s funny how a few people voice their opinions about the name of a torch and they get labeled as “unprofessional” and “attack dogs.” When Misha posted this poll, she made very clear her intentions. The poll was posted in good will. Her intentions were to be helpful. And, further, there have been no attacks on here. No one has attacked Carlisle or their products. It sure seems like every time some people express their loyalty to a product or a company, the jealous types creep out of the wood work and start calling names. Oh well, that’s how it goes, I suppose.

Personally, I don’t care that Carlisle named its torch Wildcat. Heck, that’s what I named my first bicycle over 30 years ago and you don’t see me up in arms about it. I can see the concern people have regarding product confusion based on the name. That may be well-placed concern. But beyond that, it doesn’t affect me one way or the other (heh, and here I am, reported by some to be the biggest GTT attack dog on this forum).

Oh, and all the talk about a bad business model… FAILING TO PAY YOUR BILLS FOR THREE MONTHS RUNNING is a bad business model. GOING ON-LINE TO BASH THE COMPANY YOU COULD NOT PAY AFTER THEY CUT YOU OFF is just bad. But, I guess that’s what bad business people do. Bad business people tend to be dishonest about things. Bad business people also tend to have big mouths that bite off more than they can chew and then run and cry to their lawyers when someone stands up against them. Bad business people call other people who know things that they don’t want them to know “know-it-alls.” So, how is it that a bad business person could comment on someone else’s business? Maybe they are just jealous. But I digress.

[Greymatter Glass]

http://www.laurinmanning.com/blog/pics/bb.gif

[NUBBLET]

Take A Friggin Bow , Kbinkster

[skip]

Why does anyone here think that this poll is appropriate? Last I checked no one from Carlisle is an active paticicpant here. I think someone got a wild hair up their ass to even post this shit. Oh well I think the votes show that now...... Is this a board for lampworkers or a high pressure lobbyist group?

[Greymatter Glass]

there's a difference?

lol..... I hope there's some other people that aare laughing at what this thread's become, I know I am.

It's every bit of restraint I have not to post some wild ass shit to fuel the fire.... I don't even wanna post this but I am an addict.

[Greymatter Glass]

lol I think Mike and Binkster are long lost brother and sister, any one else?

-Doug

(can't...resist....urge...to....make....wisecracks .......)

[WORLD FAMOUS]

This thread has taken more turns than a Tour De France rider.
http://z.about.com/d/gofrance/1/0/J/4/tourdefrancemap.jpg

[Greymatter Glass]

http://lelombrik5.free.fr/Images/roller.gif

[steven p selchow]

I'm strongly against any threads getting the ax in the name of free speech.....but this one is overcooked.

The more this goes, the more I hope people see how hurtful it is or has become to everyone, not just a few.

Lets have a poll to end this one.

[bc]

I'll vote on that steve.

in my best simpsons comic book character voice: "Stupidest thread ever!"

bc

[Greymatter Glass]

hurtful?

omfg if you let yourself get emotionally beat up over a thread about a torch you've got bigger problems than a wild hair thread.



....

-Doug

[kbinkster]

I'm strongly against any threads getting the ax in the name of free speech.....but this one is overcooked.

The more this goes, the more I hope people see how hurtful it is or has become to everyone, not just a few.

Lets have a poll to end this one.

Oh, so, it has only become hurtful on page three where I make a post and it wasn't hurtful on page one where Mike took a swing at me? Gee, that's fair.

Look, guys, I didn't come on here looking to start a fight, but I'm not going to sit back and take the insults hurled at me. That just isn't fair.

I'm not the one to take a situation and twist it into a personal attack. I come on here after being out for a few days and find this poll. I read it and lo and behold there's Mike, up to his usual tricks, insulting me. What did I do to deserve that? I've been playing nice on the new forum and everything. There were several digs I could have made at Mike over the last few weeks but didn't. So what should I do now that I am directly attacked, just let him insult me over and over again?

PS Even though I am not upset about the torch name thing, I don't see the harm in taking a poll about it. It's not like anyone is being forced to vote - just like no one is being forced to read or respond to this thread in general.

[steven p selchow]

I care about other people doug, this shit shouldn't even have taken the twists and turns that it did.
Thats what I'm talking about, its not about a torch anymore.

I don't get emotional, I think you took it the wrong way

My post was a generalization...not speaking to anyone..k or mike.

[Satori]

Who cares about these people's drama anyway?

So anyone hear about the glass bridge over the grand canyon?

[T Lewis Glass]

Oh My Bink ,,,,

I love it when you get fired up .



I dont know why I even read all this , I didnt even vote .


It's just a fuckin name of a product WTF . Who cares.


What about heavy wall tubing , that shit pisses me off . And apples , bannanas , frickin carpet too , tweezers , kitchen knives , Yoyo's , sushi , oh yeah paper is the worst .

I stopped eating butter a long time ago , because every single time I eat it I think of marshmellows .

Granny smith apples give me the shits !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



~Todd

[kbinkster]

:rollin

Hey, Todd! You really did have me laughing out loud. So, what do you have against marshmallows?

[Greymatter Glass]

Binkster and Mike, sittin' in a tree...

K
I
S
S
I
N
G

First comes love, then come marriage, then comes the baby in a baby carriage.



wooooooooo-ooooooooo


I've seen some pretty weird love triangles on-line, but this is one of the more entertaining ones.

...

Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend! Mike has a girlfriend!



Naw, I don't have anything against either of you personally, I just can't help but comment on the drama and everything.....

can't you just kiss and make up?

[kbinkster]

Well, damn, Doug, what fun would that be? Seriously, though, Mike's attorney sent me a very nice letter asking if we could just all get along. He said that they were extending the olive branch of peace. Well, I never said one way or the other about accepting a truce, BUT my actions speak louder than words and I have been nice, lately. I've got enough real-life drama (mostly good stuff) going on that I don't have to stir things up on-line. So, there I am going along playing nice and WHAMM-O! I get slapped in the face. Now, that isn't very nice, is it? I guess if I had pig-tails they'd be dipped in ink. :ohwell:

[Glassy79]

Kbinkster, The only thing lower then whale crap is wale piss! This guy is lower then that!

And I will forever be his worst nightmare. "Glassy79"

[PyroChixRock]

Since this thread has gone astray and I know that the next post by mike will be in response to Kim’s post...I'm closing it. You each posted once to each other, so that's even and fair I think. I should just pull this thread and you guys know that but I'm going to try this to see if it works. I tried to just clean it up but it's pretty much impossible without editing people's post and I'm just not down. Anyway, sorry to those of you who want to continue this conversation, I don't really have a better solution this time...

Thanks to those of you who gave good feedback, I'm glad a name isn't all that stands behind a design, Carlisle will appreciate knowing this too I’m sure. :)