cups and goblets

[Swim]

I made my first tall beer glass last night, and I was hella stoked at how well it came out, but one large problem I had was that i did not have a large enough round tool to make the lip perfectly round, and my glass would be perfect otherwise. What do you guys do or what tool. Any advice would be great.

[BORO]

Just need to make sure the hole you pop on the end of the cup is on point perfectly.

As you flare the hole, the lip stays perfect, if the hole was perfect.

If your hole is off, or your lip has a extra bit, clip it off with scissors. (some peeps hate scissors, I like them. Ymmv)

If you see the lip is off, the faster you can correct the issue the better.

Say its got a thick spot. The faster you can cut that away, or correct it, the better. If you wait, and keep making it a bigger lip, it exponetial. The "offness" grows, gets harder to correct. <that's a fair rule to live by in glass, not just cup lips. The faster you correct a small error, the easier it is to be "perfect" and "on point".


PICKS HELP. POST PICS.

Also, watch emilo santini on YouTube. Watch the beginning of "glass pilgrim" video with cesear tofilo (sp?)

[Swim]

I am gonna heat it back up and try to round the botton back out and repress it first, and I will try to post a pic afterward. The lip was not janky in any way accept that I could not get it perfectly round.... like if I had a 4 inch wide octal reamer I could have made it perfect. but I will at least send you a FB pic later when I have the phone.

[FifDeez]

If you ever need a giant reamer for glasses like this again skuzz, go get yourself a cork that will work as your reamer, you can get large corks from glass supplier. Wet the cork with each ream( dunk in water so its soaked good, then sling off excess) and keep glass hot enough you don't rapid cool as you ream, you'll get 3 good glasses outta a cork before you have to sand the cork to reuse for smaller glasses next time. To make the reamer drill a small hole in center of cork and insert a wooden dowel rod or anything as a handle inside for a snug fit( wetting cork during use expands cork and makes it fit even tighter) and viola ghetto giant reamer, I use this every time I make glasses.

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[Super Phunk]

I would be trying to find a large round piece of graphite if that is what you are wanting to accomplish. A pint glass shaped graphite tool would be sweet. Kind of like a huge gong graphite tool... Does anyone make a 50 mil female gong holder???

[FifDeez]

Do you know how much my ghetto reamer costs? 3$ that's is. I'd love to see a quote on a reamer that size from one of the forums graphite guys. I bet its mighty high. You'd have to justify a tool like that bye busting out a huge batch to not have tool buyers remorse

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[Super Phunk]

I don't... I feel like one fully worked 500 dollar pint glass would more than cover it.

[somewhere]

I think you will find in time you won't need more then a small piece of graphite heat and centrifugal force.

This will be one of those threads you will look back on and chuckle. I'm not saying my cups are anything to get excited over but flare out 100 and look at the progression. It just keeps getting better the more you make.

The giant reamer although a logical idea may not be the answer. Mickelsen uses an egg shaped piece of graphite to move the glass with little heat. I don't find this to be the norm but his cups are top of the heap. So hey Mickelsen uses an egg no reason you can't use a giant reamer or a cork.

[Swim]

word, thanx for the advice guys, i heated the bottom back round and pressed it again, because it had a dope ass bottom section that was a tad crooked on the first press, and I nailed it!!! then it fell out of my grabber on the way to the kiln, and shattered. I will make another soon. this one was pretty dope and all coil potted sections so it was a heart breaker

[FifDeez]

Well good luck selling a 500$ drinking glass to your average Jo. I live in Midwest and make stuff for real people with average incomes, not spoiled dab kids spending mom and dads trust fund. So I'd have to make a dozen to make that much and people bitch about dropping a 50$ no matter how much they love something. The point is if u plan to make a lot of something and want it to be excellent, buy pro made tools. But if its a random order for a glass only pops up a few times a year why the hell would I invest in a tool I won't see a return on my money for years. Its a simple business decision for anyone worth their salt that's actually trying to profit at this and not just be a hobbyist.

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[BORO]

1. Tweezer jacks and bees wax.

2. I press the bottom of my pint glasses. Then I pop a hole in the middle of that flat bottom , add a blow tube back to the cup bottom . When I finish my lip , still on that blow tube(on axis) . I melt off that blow tube off last, and I have very little shaping to create that perfect pint bottom.

[FifDeez]

Doesn't always work if the bottom has an implosion or wig pattern u don't want tampered with. There are alot of ways to accomplish any goal in glass, just make sure you profit doing it .

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[Swim]

I dont have anu big jacks, but I could see them working well for this. I cant wait til I have time to make another, but this time i am gonna make sections out of 44x4 instead of coild potting the whole thing and honeycombing and dot stacking. It was a good experience though. I mostly did it how you described though BoRo. I have gotten in the habit off switching ends with my blow tube several times a piece. more to come in this thread, i wanna make my own beer glasses. also my mom want me to make bird feeders.

[hashmasta-kut]

still loving my buttplug on a stick (Mickelsen Egg)

[bombheadster]

I prefer a pair of jacks for that, but have been using a dinky graphite reamer recently. Considering a Mickelson egg, but my next big purchase will be jacks and proper shears.

Speaking of finishing cups though, how do y'all tend to hold on to the bottoms while finishing the lip?
I do a standard hot shop style order of operations and finish the bottom first. Then, I punti up to the bottom while I finish the lip. It's a pain because if I'm not super careful with flashing and keeping everything hot, they crack from the punti. I really like the idea of re-popping the hole in the bottom and blowtubing up, but I usually have wig wag sections down there that would be altered. I've considered claw grabbers, but centeredness is a bit too crucial at that point for grabbers IMO. I like the punti method the most, just wondering what everybody else does?

[Nomad]

I use my diamond shears to cut the point off even. Then I add a lip wrap with a piece of cane like Cesare' does in his video. Then I heat the lip and spin fast with the heat going towards the bottom. This should open up your lip from the heat inside the vessel. I use my lacks to help open it up more. If I want to be fancy I have graphite jacks that I can finish the piece with. The last heat and jacking is done with them so there is no tool marks.
It might be easier to demonstrate then talk about?

[Nomad]

Maybe I will post a video from my phone next week? I have to make a set of 6 with dichro stems. I sold them last night.

[unfunraygun]

Do it right and you dont need any tool

[Nomad]

true but you have to work really hot then and have a large flame that is really hot.


Do it right and you dont need any tool

[menty666]

Jacks come in handy, but Boro's right about doing the hole right the first time (or at the very least fixing it before you flare).

FifDeez is describing a steam stick. If you want a premade one, I can wholeheartedly recommend this guy (and his name is Guy) on both quality and price: http://www.hotblocktools.com/SteamStick.html

Plus he's pretty quick.

If you want to be fancy, a sophietta might come in handy if you needed to blow out the inside or something while getting into fancy folded lips and stuff. However, the steamstick will effectively do the same thing.

[hashmasta-kut]

1. Tweezer jacks and bees wax.

2. I press the bottom of my pint glasses. Then I pop a hole in the middle of that flat bottom , add a blow tube back to the cup bottom . When I finish my lip , still on that blow tube(on axis) . I melt off that blow tube off last, and I have very little shaping to create that perfect pint bottom.


why not just attach a rod handle on the bottom? I dont see the advantage to making a hole, and sometimes i make super thick bottoms,then it would be tricky to make it look nice if you popped a hole in it..

[BORO]

Any time I use a Rod , I tend to get more shock/breaks on the rod connection.

I use the blow tube to puff/shape the top of the pint, I use it to blow out the actual hole for the flared lip to start from.

I for sure, 100% shape and press that bottom first. I only make the smallest cleanest hole I can for the 12mm blow tube. In the end it only takes a second to clean it up and melt it in almost perfect. (almost)

I guess if I had a rod on the bottom , and a blow tube on the top, I could some how disconnect that blow tube nice and clean, on point ,and even? That's beyond me tho.

I use my way , just to try to get the most perfect wall thickness and shape, just before the lip flare. Its easier to pop a hole on point for me.

...................

I KNOW you can do it either way. I just recently got a pair of jim moore small diamond sheers (my lady won them from shelbo, shamless plug for "NYPaige" )

As I get better with the diamond sheers , and or a v blade , yes your way could work for me too. (H.M.- Kut)

[Swim]

the blowtube on the bottom is what i prefer, its just what i taught myself and it works for me, especially because i can always wind Up in a situation where i want to pressurize the piece. I love how some people get hella angry or dickish instead of just giving their opinion. BoRo is a guy I listen to though, he puts alot of thought and passion into what he is saying, and he has helped me with a million things, and I consider him a true friend even though its only through the web. BTW BoRo, I totally used the "dogbone" method you told me about the first time we were on the phone, and this also helped me tremendously with shaping my bubbler cans. thanx for everything bro, your classact.

[hashmasta-kut]

I guess if I had a rod on the bottom , and a blow tube on the top, I could some how disconnect that blow tube nice and clean, on point ,and even? That's beyond me tho.

I use my way , just to try to get the most perfect wall thickness and shape, just before the lip flare. Its easier to pop a hole on point for me.

...................

I KNOW you can do it either way. I just recently got a pair of jim moore small diamond sheers (my lady won them from shelbo, shamless plug for "NYPaige" )

As I get better with the diamond sheers , and or a v blade , yes your way could work for me too. (H.M.- Kut)

yes i have always done it that way, and no thermal shocks or breaks ever at that connection. i hold it with the rod on the bottom after the bottom is finished, then puff the shaping on the mug, then disconnect the top with D shears, kinda like Emilio Santini, and flare out. grab with grabbers and take of the rod handle. I usually let it sit in the kiln awhile first before disconnecting the rod handle. I have had diamond shears since i started, so just over 6 years now, so I am pretty good with them.

[hashmasta-kut]

I love how some people get hella angry or dickish instead of just giving their opinion.


Are you talking about me? If so, you got the wrong impression.

and it doesnt matter if the blowtube is on the top or bottom, you still have a blowtube to blow. putting a hole in the bottom just seems like a waste of time and counterproductive, and as I mentioned i sometimes make a very thick bottom, so there would be an odd spot in the middle doing it that way. Also with linework bottoms it would be a problem often.

[unfunraygun]

Goblet pimps only use diamond shears, and that is only to slow down and align the glass. Cesare tech is what you really want, and sizelove. Boro goblet wizards. Labrie, on this forum is also one of the best ever.

[Swim]

Are you talking about me? If so, you got the wrong impression.

and it doesnt matter if the blowtube is on the top or bottom, you still have a blowtube to blow. putting a hole in the bottom just seems like a waste of time and counterproductive, and as I mentioned i sometimes make a very thick bottom, so there would be an odd spot in the middle doing it that way. Also with linework bottoms it would be a problem often.

nope, talking about people in general, pertaining to many different threads today

[hashmasta-kut]

Your timing and thread placement were extremely misleading then.

[Swim]

ok

[BORO]

Im not trying to say either way is correct.

I was refering to pint glasses for sure.

I do my goblet tops with some type of "v" they are too thin to close up the bottom clean. (rod on the bottom)

Emilo was the first "real" glassblower I met. Was on my second or third day of torching. I thought it was a gag/joke when I had his cups in my hands. So thin/perfect I thought they were off of some type of machine.

Edit..... I also do the r.a.m. style on my goblet tops.... I super heat the handle, rod on the bottom. I pull the handle about 6" longer as I blow (medium puff?) the handle becomes super thin in the stretched area.
If I had a clean ring of heat on that stem , I can just let the thin edge cool , then heat/tear in one motion.... (think it was the old salem r.a.m. video from youtube? Ram did grail work on a cc+? the kid in the front row with no glases lol )

[Swim]

ahhhhh, the V paddle. Someone stole mine. this would have been perfect. I will make myself another. thanx bro

[BORO]

Don't thank me, thank H.M.K.

I would have not even mentioned it, if not for him asking "why not" when he eluded to that method with a rod on the bottom....

[Swim]

I missed it somehow. I would have thought of it myself if mine had not come up missing off my bench forever ago, but its for sure a solid affordable solution. At the time that I had one, I was not at a point where it would come in handy for anything

[Nomad]

I will try a video of me opening up a cup in a minute....
I made this cup today.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/03153bd6e7f8676325f25498a49e9655.jpg
I used both sets of jacks.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/db223c9bd3e701e9c97a686f05772048.jpg
I have to make another stem too first.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/8d424e7b1047f17d6de9a991c5fb175c.jpg


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[Nomad]

I am not that good at it really but I will try to give it shot today.


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[Nomad]

https://vimeo.com/158073046


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[Nomad]

This is the goblet before going in the kiln.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/4576bd19c9f94fda7ba851c7690513d5.jpg


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[nate dubbs]

I'm having a problem when I am making a tumbler or pint glass style cup. Whenever I flatten the bottom 1st before jacking open the cup, the bottom cracks where the punty is. But if I leave the bottom slightly rounded then punty up and open the cup , I get no cracks at the base. But then I have to flatten the base by using claw grabbers after removing punty. Flattening with claw grabbers is not nearly as perfect shape as pressing the bottom 1st . Does anyone have experience making boro tumblers?

[lsspam]

Here are a few tips to help out.

Flame form your flat bottom instead of using graphite if you can. The contact area (shape) and heat of your punty will dictate how much heat and stress you have on the bottom of the glass. Flash the bottom punty connection in the flame every 30-40 seconds for a duration of 2-3 seconds to keep everything warm.

[nate dubbs]

THanks! I've found that I can flame form the base to almost flat and then punty up. It helps to keep the base a little thicker ,I think. Then after I open the cup and snap the punty off I can then finish off the flat press on graphite. I with there was a video of cesare or emilio doing this technique.

[hashmasta-kut]

I'm having a problem when I am making a tumbler or pint glass style cup. Whenever I flatten the bottom 1st before jacking open the cup, the bottom cracks where the punty is. But if I leave the bottom slightly rounded then punty up and open the cup , I get no cracks at the base. But then I have to flatten the base by using claw grabbers after removing punty. Flattening with claw grabbers is not nearly as perfect shape as pressing the bottom 1st . Does anyone have experience making boro tumblers?

When i make stuff like this, when i punty up to the bottom, its an excellent join, in no ways a cold seal at all. i very rarely get cracks in my bases, and sometimes they are very thick. maybe thats the problem?

[nate dubbs]

So you are melting off the punty after its flattened? Instead of snapping off a cold seal? That method isn't possible with how thin my cups are. I'm thinking the only way to do it at this point is to flatten last holding with the claw or using my hand to hold the cup after its cool to flatten on graphite.

[DaveK]

Just took the Parramore class. His trick is to make a cone (not a flat junction) on both the foot and cup and stick the stem hotter than either when assembling. He uses a National hand torch to flame anneal after each piece. I am still trying to master his ambidextrous, one hand down, one hand up, rod/tube handling technique.


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[bombheadster]

I think punti to the bottom while finishing the lip makes a lot of sense still, and the trick as best I can tell is to flash that cup like a mother, hot and often. Skip a flash and it cracks. I'm intrigued to try making my cups with a blowtube punti to the bottom, and also a hot seal punti, but like nate dubbs I'm concerned about the punti clean up once the lip is done. Perhaps the right punti shape though and melting off won't be too bad. Definitely adds extra time and an extra step though.

[nate dubbs]

Two examples of my pressing last with claw grabbers method. The smaller one is 5 inch x 3 inch 2.3 oz. to give idea how thin.
8610686107

[nate dubbs]

Man, I don't know why this uploader is turning my pics around like this. Wtf?

[PyroChixRock]

I don't see them as sideways on my end

[menty666]

first one for me is upside down, second is sideways. Maybe he's(?) on a space station?

[bombheadster]

I see the same as menty, first one upside down and second in sideways. Still looks nice

[taylorm]

For lips, I flame cut, occasionally a touch with the octagon reamer to move the lip out a bit on some shapes. For finishing beer glass bottoms with the lip in my claw grabbers, rather than squashing the bottom on graphite, I pluck some excess material off the end of the bubble (as needed) until it is closer to flat and use heat, rotation, and gravity to condense and pull the glass bottom in to the disc shape. I am not spinning the side walls out centrifugally, the diameter is already set up by blowing the form, just condensing the bottom of the bubble in with heat and gravity if that makes any sense. Invert the cup at this point while the bottom is hot and you can create a "champagne" bottom (i.e. really sucked in dome shape) but by gravity rather than sucking, which I wouldn't want aesthetically on a beer glass, just making a point about technique. And when flattening a cylinder/disc like with a graphite paddle/marver it can be easier to have a slight concavity in the bottom and then just heat and flatten the "ring" around the edge where it makes contact, rather than having it be flat and hitting the full surface area and getting chill marks etc. I hope some part of that is helpful, it is late and I probably make no sense.

[glassmax]

Here some shapes of goblets.
All boro,some colored w oxydes and salts.

86296

86297

86298

86299

got questions ? Just ask