glass alchemy changes

[Jackass Glass]

curious what everyones take on the glass alchemy new rewards program and direct to consumer model. apologies if this has been chatted already, ive been away.

two things:

1. thoughts on the 5000 point membership... that ill never get to. so i guess im at the end of the list for getting hype colors. i suppose thats the biggest complaint? any other complaints or loves?

2. they are officially dicking the distributors.... aka glasscraft, MGA, ABR etc etc etc. Frankly this one really isn't a discussion point as it just a fact of direct to consumer pricing. just more curious to hear if anyone actually seems to care or if buying direct works.


should state this isnt a bashing GA thread if you love the new programs i want to hear also! im just not enough of a player in the glass world....

[Foxy999]

In my opinion it would be great if there was a color company that charged a decent price reflected upon what it costs to make and not demand. Wait! There is! It's Northstar and they will shut down the game in time. And when those colors are added to the palette (no longer experimental) you can rest assured that distributors will get them and you won't have to worry about played-out memberships that require you to drop 5k.

[lost nebula]

Northstar for life. Northstar makes color for the masses while GA makes color for the classes.

[Kovacs Glass]

The new Glass Alchemy reward programme has made it extremely easy for me to spend my money with Northstar.

[snoopdog6502]

Anything GA I want is sold out anyway. I dont think anyone likes what they have done.

Northstar has the good people and great colors, its a no brainer to buy from them.

[Mike_Aurelius]

It's been interesting over the last couple of months to watch this dynamic play itself out. Hopefully, I'll be firing the torch back up in a couple of months (the first time in nearly 5 years), and my shelves will be stocked with Northstar glass.

[lhelber]

I am not a fan of what GA has done to the distributors. I prefer not having to shop at a bunch of different stores for my glass supplies. It is much easier to combine my clear, tools and colors into one shipping box. Which I still do as long as I don't purchase GA colors.

I also don't like having to compete with the big guys for my color palette either. I'm just a little guy in the glass world, I suspect they don't care


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jackass Glass]

looks like the masses have spoken.

Mike looking fwd to seeing what you create.

As far as im concerned - it sucks what they did to the distributors, i used to be a national sales rep for a major corp and if they went around me i would have sued them to protect my territory. but i imagine that the glass stores dont have contract agreements.

blows but what can you do. thanks guys.

[Oneiros]

Fwiw, I got into a conversation with the folks at MGA two weeks ago and they said none of their customers have had positive things to say about the new scheme. Most are frustrated they can't actually see colors (especially new ones) in-person before buying. They also said that folks who like to lay out their color fades in-store, or check the rod diameters to make sure everything will fit in their vac-stacks according to plan have been especially vocal about their displeasure with GA's new approach.

I don't know if NS intended their adumentary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdo2yvMRsqg) to coincide with GA shooting themselves in the foot, but it certainly seems like NS is well-positioned to improve its market share at the moment.

[Jackass Glass]

i wouldnt be surprised to see an industry blacklisting of GA via distributors. meaning the distribs wont carry it. dont blame them.

There will always be a few colors you will want tho i imagine. at least i do.

[istandalone24/7]

yeah i'm not too thrilled about it either. i don't use much GA anyhow, but there are a few of their colors i'll miss.
Northstar all the way for me (and TAG if i'm feeling rich).

[justadudeandshit]

Seems like GA really needs help business decision wise. I went to their cadmium release party and they had a special price that was more then the 30% off you would usually get. I guess they bought into their own hype. I miss when it was a rush to grab the hype glass. At least then every one had a fair chance. Oh well. Northstar it is.

[istandalone24/7]

have you tried the "new formula" cads that GA has? been wondering what the differences are.

[justadudeandshit]

Yea, truth be told I don't have too much experience with the old formula but I've noticed they are definitely easier to work with and look great when worked correctly. I havent tried the new northstar yet so I cant compare them. They still aren't easy to work with though.

[yinzer]

There's only a handful of colors that I can't replace. That being said, after strictly using GA for many years and sticking my neck out for them quite a few times, I'm pretty irritated. I don't really care about hype colors, every now and then there's one that I want to grab, but having my access limited over a purchase amount makes it hurt where my heart should be. I sometimes spend enough on color to fit the bill, but I wouldn't spend it all on one company. Especially, a company that seems to have regressed as far as quality is concerned. Also, it seems, from the explanation I have read, that some colors that were a staple of the pallet will now fall in the hype category, which is pretty annoying.

I'm also not very happy about the slap in the face to the distributors. I don't want to order from all the way across the country, when I can order from a few states away. Even with free shipping, it's a difference of DAYS. It sometimes takes a week to get stuff from the west coast, but I've got a couple dist that can get my order to me in a day or so. If I had the ability to walk into a dist and hand pick my colors, I would likely be furious, but I have never had that opportunity so I'm just kind of meh about it.

I can see why they did it, from a business point of view, but I don't think it was a very smart move for the long run. Maybe in a larger industry, but even with the growth over the past few years, we are still a fairly small group. It's not just big names they're drawing in with this, but also the types of people that spend 5 grand on a torch before they can even push a mushroom. Eventually, the hype around flameworking will fizzle out again, as it always does, the herd will be thinned and they will be left with a customer base consisting of a bunch of people they pissed off. Like a shitty boy/girlfriend that tries to come back to you when nobody else wants to put up with their crap anymore. I would like to try the new cads, but I doubt I will be spending much money on GA anymore. I expect to see another surge of new basement color companies popping up soon.

[Jackass Glass]

There's only a handful of colors that I can't replace. That being said, after strictly using GA for many years and sticking my neck out for them quite a few times, I'm pretty irritated. I don't really care about hype colors, every now and then there's one that I want to grab, but having my access limited over a purchase amount makes it hurt where my heart should be. I sometimes spend enough on color to fit the bill, but I wouldn't spend it all on one company. Especially, a company that seems to have regressed as far as quality is concerned. Also, it seems, from the explanation I have read, that some colors that were a staple of the pallet will now fall in the hype category, which is pretty annoying.

I'm also not very happy about the slap in the face to the distributors. I don't want to order from all the way across the country, when I can order from a few states away. Even with free shipping, it's a difference of DAYS. It sometimes takes a week to get stuff from the west coast, but I've got a couple dist that can get my order to me in a day or so. If I had the ability to walk into a dist and hand pick my colors, I would likely be furious, but I have never had that opportunity so I'm just kind of meh about it.

I can see why they did it, from a business point of view, but I don't think it was a very smart move for the long run. Maybe in a larger industry, but even with the growth over the past few years, we are still a fairly small group. It's not just big names they're drawing in with this, but also the types of people that spend 5 grand on a torch before they can even push a mushroom. Eventually, the hype around flameworking will fizzle out again, as it always does, the herd will be thinned and they will be left with a customer base consisting of a bunch of people they pissed off. Like a shitty boy/girlfriend that tries to come back to you when nobody else wants to put up with their crap anymore. I would like to try the new cads, but I doubt I will be spending much money on GA anymore. I expect to see another surge of new basement color companies popping up soon.

amazingly well written in my not so humble opinion... also "where my heart should be" i died at my desk hahahahah

[Mr.P0rn]

Maybe I'm not clear on exactly what they have done....let me put out there what my understanding was, and maybe someone could correct me where i am wrong. I was under the impression that they pulled hype colors from distributors, but not most of their colors. I don't think this is terrible if they keep order limits and make sure everyone gets some like they did with serum. With a lot of hype colors, you have non-glassblowers buying them to resell, or to have pieces made, which makes it harder for the rest of us to get some. Also, there's no reason why someone couldn't go to a distributor and pick up 20 lbs of a hype color, when the rest of us are fighting online to try to get 1/4 lbs. This being said, I've never been able to walk into a distributor to buy glass (but have bought in person at a few shows..), so this may be part of my perspective. I can understand if people who like to lay linework out in the store are frustrated, but couldn't they take their single pound of hype color to the store and still do it? I know this is maybe a little bit more trouble...but if the overall effect is more people having more access to the hype colors, i think it could be a positive thing.

I know you have to get 5000 points to make it into the club thing, but your points never reset, and it's not like you have to do it in a year....i rarely order from GA, and I've already racked up around 600 points just on sale items (and with them having weekly sales....1/3 of that isn't from the customer sale.) Normally the only time i order from GA direct is during their sale, as shipping couldn't be any further (usually about 7 days), and I have to pay for it...that being said, my last order of Jackpot came out to around $21 a pound, and the glass was nearly firsts (I've had good luck with Jackpot OK batches). I used to buy the OK quality when it was $28 a pound, but since it went up, i usually buy northstar odds. The weekly sales have made certain colors as cheap as during their sale, and i love that, especially when a color i love comes up. I have access to the hype colors, and have at LEAST since i had 120 points. Also, I hated the price GA charged once the prices rose from $28. It bothered me enough to never buy outside of the sale, and now the 30% off makes it worth it again, and I don't have to pay $100 a year to get the discount like i would with a color club at a distributor. Being as i only ordered from the sales, I wouldn't have been very into this if they wern't doing weekly sales and the 30% off. Because of these two things, i am likely to order at other times, and i think i will be able to get 5000 points in a fairly reasonable amount of time, so long as they keep having sales and discounts. If i had to rack up 5K points from sales alone, i wouldn't like it nearly as much.

Overall, I would say I like the changes, is there anything here that I'm not quite understanding?

[yinzer]

I was of the understanding that the points reset yearly and that some of the staple colors, that I would consider not so hype, have been moved to the list of colors that the distributors can't get. I see that nobody has cads. That's pretty huge. Sure, all the stuff that happened happened, but why would I bother spending that much to even get access to them, when I'm not even sure of the quality, when other companies have comparable colors and i can support my distributor for pulling it all together for me...in one spot...that doesn't take a week to ship?

[PyroChixRock]

Interesting to see it said that they won't send hype colors to distributors, when the distributors I've talked with are all pulling GA from their shelves.

[Jackass Glass]

mr porn, for the consumer... its a generally a break even experience on the main pallet. they offer 30% off etc. so this gives NO advantage to the distributor to sell to you. you can go direct to the source.

Little guys like me get burnt on the hype colors... i imagine ill have to buy the ones i really want off some of the larger glass guys.... at a premium.

By cutting out the distributor the manufacturer gets to keep the additional middle piece. easy example-

1 lb illuminati = 100 retail or lets say the distributors get a .40 multiplier. so they pay 60$ then sell to the customer at 30% off retail and make ten bucks a lb.

Now i have no incentive to go to a distributor. esp when they wont have the stock that the manufacturer has on hand - likely anyway, im speaking in generalities of course.

Glasscraft literally gave me my start in this awesome adventure via their classes and helpful people. i "try" and buy as much as i can from them to show my support. In the end. im still paying 30% off for the color. but now i cant get the same access - whether that is because im not a big time member or because the distribs dont have it on the shelves.

plus Yinzer is totally correct in shipping. i know a lot of artists are local to portland and the area. but many many many are not. now we have to pay further shipping? and take longer just because of distance.

also dont even get me started on the board of directors nonsense.... talk about self serving.... legit its just announcing these artists are special? most already knew that... its great that they help GA test the colors, everyone can appreciate that but... they need a pat on the back for it? my opinion only. maybe others are interested to read this stuff?

[D. dino i ninjah]

Right before the Ban GA's Cadmium colors were really suffering .. infact IMO ALL. their colors were really suffering since The parents left the buisness. the quality has been taking a nose dive.

this was happening BEFORE THE BAN.. The saturation lvls in their cads .. were horrible.. in the last batch of cads I bought from them ..


I would like to point out something though .. Northstar is no longer entirely american made. I have had a much harder time swallowing that than Im having with their (ga's) new sales plan. the last order of Cads I got I bought Momka .. and the momka will work for MOST of what I do ..

Im not mad at GA for selling direct at all. the 30% off occasionals is nice to be honest .. IDK if anyone noticed .. but even before the sale the prices were lower than normal .. for everything after I signed into my account.

THE membershit program .. seems to me to be a horrible Idea . . and that is where they are shooting themselves in the foot .. ITs like slapping your customers in the face. It has a lot to do with the way it was rolled out .. so artists getting Freee passes to the front of the line .. while others paid to get the ride the ride first pass .. and then the majority of the users .. getting slapped in the face .. ITs just bad marketing ..

IMO they could have done the exact same thing and just rolled it out .. in a more tactfull way.

I personally like the idea of buying direct .. many may remember there was a time when you could buy direct from NS as well ..

I know recently as a result of NS making colors overseas .. I have more desire to buy colors from companies that keep their operations based in the USA .. I also know that the 30- 40 a lb for ga ocasionals fits into my budget much better .. than the higher priced firsts available elsewhere .

what will make or break GA for me personally .. is the QUALITY of the occasionals their selling . IN order for this model to work for me .. The quality leavels have to at least be on or at the lvls they were when the parents were running the show.. I ordered from the sale this year .. and honestly I would order much more often .. IF the QUALITY of their color improves .. (i know their occasionals not firsts ... but I have been remixing odds and seconds for 15 years... the stuff from ga for the last 2 was really low quality IMO) really thats what is going to make or break them. People will pay more to support AMERICAN MADE .. but only if its reflected in the QUALITY.

I liked GA but you can only get let down so many times ... IF they could produce decent color .. and keep it in stock . .I could see me ordering from their ocasionals section much more often if the pricing stays at 30% off .. It puts the color right in the range I try to buy in .. ITs really only a matter of weather the QUALITY is there ..

as a consumer almost anytime you can buy direct from the manufacturer .. you usually save money .. I can live with 2 days longer shipping for savings and a direct buisness relationship with the manufacturer

[istandalone24/7]

what evidence do you have that NS uses overseas mfg plants to produce some of their colors? they just built a new huge and eco friendly (ish) facility.
if it was an article, do you have a link? first i'm hearing of this.

i don't doubt that NS uses chems from overseas though....

[Mike_Aurelius]

A lot of the rare earths and metals are sourced overseas, mostly from China and Africa. Because that's where the deposits of those minerals are. It's not a conspiracy, just "luck" of geology.

The -dymium rare earths are 99% sourced from China -- they pretty much control the market (and of course the price) for them. Same with cerium for glass polish.

[MUPH]

what evidence do you have that NS uses overseas mfg plants to produce some of their colors? they just built a new huge and eco friendly (ish) facility.
if it was an article, do you have a link? first i'm hearing of this.

i don't doubt that NS uses chems from overseas though....

I have also heard from someone in the industry that they produce a select few colors overseas, or atleast get the pucks from them. I doubt it will be in any article though

[menty666]

I don't mind buying direct for higher quantities, but it sounds like if you're like me and want to try a 1/4# here and there that you might have added to an order from a distro with stuff from other manufacturers (and possibly saved on shipping in the process), you're now SOL if you want to try the new stuff unless you buy straight from them.

Also, setting up a caste system is just straight out rude. I think we all assume manufacturers will float the super stars a deal or a preview from time to time, but to codify that pisses people off.

[A.I.]

^all their new transparent colors, plus illuminati and prob Lucy are made at gaffer glass in New Zealand. You may have seen those big globs of cullet northstar has posted, that's being made over seas, then re-pulled into rod at northstar in Oregon. Not what this thread is about but I don't like any of the new ns exp. colors.
That being said I kind of like the new ga set up, and I'm not a mega baller by any standards.

[istandalone24/7]

i'm not into the hype myself, but i have grown to love illuminati. it just looks good no matter what, bright as fuck.
thank you for sharing the info about New Zealand :)

[Mute]

Illuminati is not hype.

[menty666]

Illuminati is not hype.

Unless you spend the bulk of your time under UV lamps, any UV color is hype.

[Mute]

Unless you spend the bulk of your time under UV lamps, any UV color is hype.

We have a different definition of hype.

Hype to me is 50 shades of Paris green etc...

In my eyes its dope.

And I'm the one who started talking about this hype train choo choo in the first place.

[D. dino i ninjah]

Hype = any boro color that retail for over 100.00 a lb .. that isnt peach or doesnt have gold in it

[Mute]

Hype = any boro color that retail for over 100.00 a lb .. that isnt peach or doesnt have gold in it

Oh boy you guys are way in left field with this one...:o:

[BORO]

I was told you can't batch raw uranium oxide into glass? ( in the us. )

I'm sure N.S. Would save some money to produce it in the u.s. ( If they could. )

I see a giant difference between producing a color at any cost. In turn changing the face of current boro art.

Vs.

Producing a color as cheap as possible by making it in a far off land with little to no environmental restriction.

[sunray]

Interesting thread.. At Trev's we have not been able to get 1/2 our orders from
GA for the last year and now the new deals they have make it impossible for stores to carry their product.
I know some of my glass blowers that do lined tubing are picky about the rod they
buy and GA has made it impossible for a few of the stores to have it on the shelves.
I think their new deal will come back to haunt them.. Mom and Dad did great running the company.

[D. dino i ninjah]

I just wanna chime in here because I usually bitch about things ... the glass I got from the sale this year " ocasionals" looks fucking Fabulous .. I still gotta try some out in the flame .. but I just thought I should mention it here ..

[BORO]

when the o.c . Sale ran, the "old stock" color that was discontinued, it was butter. And totally strait and even. (The last few pounds of cherrywood they had)

Makes me wonder when it was batched , how old it actually is?

[D. dino i ninjah]

Im down to my last few sticks of that Cherrywood.. and I wish they would make more ... I bought stapls for me cobalt 6 .. purple luster ... saphire (only sparkle I even kinda like that was availible) iris and .. treehugger .. rods look first ish in shape .. little air .. totaly worth it .. wish I had ordered double

[SNYD]

Iv'e been screwed enough from distributors Im happy to be able to buy direct from the manufacturer. But Im just a single artist that would rather buy 1/4 lb at a time and still get 30% off and not have to spend all of the very limited income I have on color just to get a discount. I have had zero issues getting hype colors too, just have to be patient and get it when you can. Also I have been under a rock for a while but I don't see northstar making any translucent colors that are air free like GA. Ill be the sole person to say I think the new program is great. I am glad abe started selling test colors direct as well.

[Jackass Glass]

Glad to hear it snyd this wasn't meant to be a ga bash thread by any means. All opinions are welcome.

[BORO]

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

Thing is, it's a big list.

When they drop new color... you have 5-10 mins from the time you get the email, till the color sells out.
Yes, if your ready , you get a grip of said color. (Sometimes sells out in less than 5 mins)

I have not read into the 5000 thing, I don't know if it even affects the "list"

If your not on your toes , it's still gone fast as f#*$

[Dave Umbs]

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

Thing is, it's a big list.

When they drop new color... you have 5-10 mins from the time you get the email, till the color sells out.
Yes, if your ready , you get a grip of said color. (Sometimes sells out in less than 5 mins)

I have not read into the 5000 thing, I don't know if it even affects the "list"

If your not on your toes , it's still gone fast as f#*$

I haven't been able to get any hype color, but knowing this the membership sounds like a joke, i use 5k of color ever 3-4 years of all color companies including independent producers, so even if i get a GA 5k GAMA membership, theres no guarantee that you will be able to get the color you want let alone hype color, so someone like myself or most smaller artists, could scrimp and save and get the membership after years of waiting just to have it be worthless when you cant get what you want, then what? you wait another 2-3 years maybe longer and try again?

Its like being loyal for nothing, and to reach the 5k buy in they basically want to screw ya with micro transactions and only purchase their color, i hate paying shipping and it adds up so there is no incentive for me to buy a pound of color at a time, let alone if its not firsts or what I want, when other companies may have a similar choices.

Ill continue to buy their color regardless so if that is the only means of getting what i need so be it, if i can get ROY cads then ill be content, its just silly since we all know once the ventilation upgrades are done they could produce as much "hype" or whatever color they wanted if the raw materials are available, so it just seems like a way of driving up prices and creating artificial hype to corner the market. Making ROY Cads, "Hype" seems like a selfish move that only benefits them.

As for hooking up big name artists, it makes perfect sense, since the pieces they make are amazing, and when GA can say that it was solely made from their color its a great boost for their color, since people are going to want to use the same colors in their work.

I barely post and ain't glass famous, so why would they want to hook up me, or any smaller artist that doesn't have a 10k+ following? There is little incentive on their part, regardless of if these smaller artists have supported them for years.

I mean go read what Shelbo blogged about the GAMA, it doesn't make any sense, if people are already having trouble getting color that isnt hype let alone the hype colors, how is limiting access to buy color by an arbitrary purchase limit, going to help artists?

"No hassle, no confusion, just direct access and discounts on Glass Alchemy colors." Well ya if ya buy 5k, you might be able to buy or participate in the color rat race, hoping you might score a pound of what you want.

As for screwing the distributors that have supported them for years, it seems foolish since its easier to burn a bridge then to build one.

I love GA's color and hope to continue to use it, but the new membership seems to have made it harder to get what id like then easier.

[BORO]

Just to clarify... when I say "the list is big" I'm talking about the #of people on that list.

Not the amount of color. It's usually one or two colors at a time.

When serium first dropped , they said it sold out in 10mins... it was more like 3 mins.

[Shattered Dreams]

looks like glasscraft is ditching GA because of this new direct to customer sales model.

[Jackass Glass]

looks like glasscraft is ditching GA because of this new direct to customer sales model.

fact.... although i was in glasscraft over the weekend and they appear to be dropping EVERYTHING.... i left with almost nothing because they have no stock. tools. clear. color. was told there is no order on the horizon. which sucks. i live 20 min :( this is the colorado store. unclear about the eugene

[PyroChixRock]

Eugene store fully stocked as of yesterday, aside from GA which they are not reordering.

[Jackass Glass]

Eugene store fully stocked as of yesterday, aside from GA which they are not reordering.

so jealous misha! seriously simax was empty and the tool selection which is always a bit weak was pretty bare.

im sure itll come back eventually.

[mattholimeau]

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

Grammar nazi alert - feel free to ignore me. I don't at all mean to pick on people - but I thought of this while driving home and thought maybe someone will find it amusing.

See, we've all heard of to, too and two, and there their and they're. Here we have the lesser known axis, access, axes, excess, ex's and x's.
axis - a line of rotation
access - the ability to get something
axes - things for chopping wood
excess - too much
ex's - people who don't have sex with you anymore. (Or maybe they do - but then its more of an "its complicated" than an ex, least in my book.)
x's - more than one of the letter x.

In terms of the actual topic of discussion... bummer. On one hand, its by definition their job to exploit their market position, on the other, its their job to make it not obvious and ugly seeming that they're exploiting their market position. As a still prettymuch noob hobbyist who started with GA colors, if only because their color chart was cooler at the time, I'll probably keep ordering my tiny bits of GA color as long as MGA keeps stocking them.

There's that "no press is bad press idea" - and clearly there's something to that at very large scale. The question is - is the glass community at that scale? The way most people seem to talk on here, there's an implied "no", but the fact that I'm even a participant (I took a class somewhat randomly and went "whoah! cool!") seems to imply that the answer is "maybe". Personally, I really don't know much about the glass business, so I have no idea - but the messaging seems to be that its still growing quickly.

[Mike_Aurelius]

As a business that does both wholesale and retail, I can tell you based on experience that being full wholesale only and transitioning to wholesale/retail to perhaps full retail only, is a nearly impossible marketing task. There is no way any business is going to make that transition without even a small amount of tarnish to the brand luster. And done badly, it's a good way to destroy your brand and your business.

The most successful way is communication. Warn the distributors first, give them time to digest the notice. Get input from them. Come up with a plan that everyone can agree on (even if reluctantly). Roll it out a couple of months later. Fine tune as needed. That's just plain Marketing 101.

The way this was done, especially in light of the Great Cad Scarcity of 2016, makes me think that the motivating force here was not broadening their customer base (they already had a good chunk of the market albeit indirectly). No, this smacks of pure greed.

If you are a wholesale company, the first rule of wholesale is that you don't compete with your customers. Nothing will piss off a purchasing agent faster than finding out one of your vendor suppliers is going to start selling direct to the end user, cutting his/her company out of the market loop. And in a closely knit community as the glassworking world is, the word is going to get around pretty fast.

The second rule is: treat all your customers the same. Certainly, you can offer discounts based on volume, that's just business. But when you set up a program that on its face looks like favoritism, that's going to create bad feelings. Then, when you double down and offer 'low volume special colors' only to those in the program, that's a nail in the coffin lid. If you are going to make something "special" or experimental or new, I certainly understand offering it to a small amount of testers. But don't hype it. Don't sell it out in 3 minutes.

[Jackass Glass]

As a business that does both wholesale and retail, I can tell you based on experience that being full wholesale only and transitioning to wholesale/retail to perhaps full retail only, is a nearly impossible marketing task. There is no way any business is going to make that transition without even a small amount of tarnish to the brand luster. And done badly, it's a good way to destroy your brand and your business.

The most successful way is communication. Warn the distributors first, give them time to digest the notice. Get input from them. Come up with a plan that everyone can agree on (even if reluctantly). Roll it out a couple of months later. Fine tune as needed. That's just plain Marketing 101.

The way this was done, especially in light of the Great Cad Scarcity of 2016, makes me think that the motivating force here was not broadening their customer base (they already had a good chunk of the market albeit indirectly). No, this smacks of pure greed.

If you are a wholesale company, the first rule of wholesale is that you don't compete with your customers. Nothing will piss off a purchasing agent faster than finding out one of your vendor suppliers is going to start selling direct to the end user, cutting his/her company out of the market loop. And in a closely knit community as the glassworking world is, the word is going to get around pretty fast.

The second rule is: treat all your customers the same. Certainly, you can offer discounts based on volume, that's just business. But when you set up a program that on its face looks like favoritism, that's going to create bad feelings. Then, when you double down and offer 'low volume special colors' only to those in the program, that's a nail in the coffin lid. If you are going to make something "special" or experimental or new, I certainly understand offering it to a small amount of testers. But don't hype it. Don't sell it out in 3 minutes.

well said mike.

[menty666]

If I recall correctly, Glasscraft was trying to sell itself lock stock and barrel, so there may be more than just GA shenanigans and cad mayhem at play there.

[Jackass Glass]

Went back yesterday and they were still out of most clear

[Mr.P0rn]

Yinzer does make some good points, as does Mike. I'm not sure if you realize this Mike...but they aren't just coming into retail, GA has done retail for years. As far as their prices....it was $28 a pound for Occasional quality for a long time, and then the prices went up to 30-40. At that point, i stopped buying from them. I would buy during the sales, but the last two sales (not the one that just happened) didn't reduce the prices much, so i didn't buy. I also only buy occasional quality from them, never firsts. Given this....I don't know of ANY distributors that offer occasional quality, are there any? Obviously I can't get occasional quality +30% off from a distributor if they don't have occasional quality. This alone makes the new model useful for me, because occasional quality went from being prohibitively expensive (why not buy NS odds for the same price of GA OK is $40?), to being affordable again. Also, the weekly sales allowed me to buy 7lbs of Jackpot for $140. The rods i got were nearly first quality. I've counted 4 stones and half a stick of air out of the 7 pounds, the rods aren't even tapered. Essentially, GA hasn't effected a single dollar i would have spent at a distributor, because no distros sell the GA stuff that i buy. I think this is true for a lot of people, especially when the quality has been good. Also, distros generally charge $100 a year to get the 30% discount that GA gives you just for signing up for an account.

I've bought maybe 500lbs of various color from them over the years, and only ~10lbs of it was closer to 2nds that 1sts (I had 3lbs of tequila sunrise that was FULL of air, a few pounds of Starry night that was so saturated it was opaque (but still sparkled and stuff) which was disappointing, and i had a batch of jamboree that was so saturated it was black....the rest has been closer to odds than seconds, and i have been sent firsts at least once of what was supposed to be OK quality hype color, which was, and was marked as firsts...not sure why?) My point is all of this is that i've had REALLY good luck with the OK quality, and the quality i got right before the sale and during this sale was very very very close to firsts....so my perception is that the quality is good/is on the rise.

Despite buying this much color from them...it's all Occasional, and i buy once a year (with the weekly sale maybe changing that, depending on the colors selected), I would not make the 5000 a year cut, not even close. However....whoever said above that they were under the impression that the points reset, you are incorrect, because that is not true. I had one employee of one well known distributor tell me that their employer said GA was "beginning to start selling retail" which led to them having some choice words about GA....but that wasn't true either, as they have sold direct for some time.

I'm also a fan of the hype color limits....I have never successfully gotten serum, tonic, antidote, or potion, until this last sale. I got 2lbs of Tonic for $90. The huge problem was that people are buying and reselling the color. If you would only use a pound...so you buy a pound, it's whatever. If you only want to use a pound, so you buy 20 lbs, because it can be resold....this increases the issues mentioned by people above who said they knew if they want hype color that they'd be buying it from another
glassblower at a premium. GA then put up 2lb ordering limits on Hype color...so the flippers would have people buy for them, and still get enough to resell. Then they did the email list thing, and it still happened. That i know of, no distributor limits how much hype color you can buy at full retail.....so that also encourages people to flip color. if distributors put a 2lb limit in place for example, people will still have multiple friends show up to buy the color for them. Hype colors are still listed on the site, visible to people with as little as 100 points...so i suspect when there are drops you won't have to be on the list to get them. It seems to me that this will make more hype color available to more people, although the flippers and artists who make solid hype color pieces will be disrupted by this.

I can see why people who live by distributors are upset...but I don't, so I have to have everything shipped. I've bought color from Glasscraft a handfull of times (and actually just helped sell over $5000 in glass that was NS, sold to Glasscraft). Any time i have purchased from Glasscraft, it has shipped from Eugene without exception. As far as the NS color i helped sell....some of it was given at a discount because there were tapered tubes and tubes with air or stones that were occasionally listed as firsts....had i just ordered a pound of tubing, and gotten certain ones without a proper discount...I'd of been upset, so as far as quality, I've had small issues with everyone here and there.

[Mike_Aurelius]

I'm not sure if you realize this Mike...but they aren't just coming into retail, GA has done retail for years.

True...but it wasn't a big part of their "sales model", and it usually wasn't firsts and main line products.

[istandalone24/7]

i did save $30 on an $80 order, so i can't complain. i guess i should look at it this way...i don't much use or like most of the hype colors. for the bread and butter colors of theirs that i use, this may work out ok.

[Dave Umbs]

Went back yesterday and they were still out of most clear

I just placed an order an asked if the golden location is closing, they said no, idk what is going on.

I was finally able to get a pound of Trautman knockoff serum from MGA so ill see what the hypes about, I do find it ironic that NS and Traut, have their versions of it already on the market, which just makes me wonder if all the transparent and hype cfl colors will just get knocked off in the long run with minor formula changes. As well as improved cads.
Id would prefer to get the real deal serum, not that it really matters cause all three look the same, but im not going to pay more then what GA sells it for and have never seen it for sale or been able to buy it through GA not that im GAMA so i doubt i would

Some of the test shades the yellow and oranges hues as well as the ketchup and oj looked cool on their site but there all sold out, and i got no notification they were up there but if you want Portland gray or brilliant blue they got ya. I guess thats what really gets me, i get notified of junk they dont even want but something that i might be interested in you gotta be constantly checking the site and then hope you can score a pound before it sells out in 5mins who has time for that let alone the aggravation.

Dont they understand cads are what were short all last year, i got blues and greens as well as strikers, i need cads and hype colors, and again like i already stated what am i supposed todo buy 5k of aqua azul to score a few pounds of red orange and yellow?

I dont want special treatment just a chance to get these colors when they are released, not to find out a week later after there sold out.

Im already getting annoyed thinking about running out of red orange and yellow later this year and not being able to get replacement color, i mostly do linework but being limited in your color choices is lame and constricts creativity, obviously one should strive to overcome this in their work but still.

[BORO]

greasy has serum variants as well, (nice and air free fwiw)

[Jackass Glass]

im sooooo pumped that tag has a serum style coming.... i got two lbs coming. i have a little shy a lb of serum left. will compare for funsies.

Im a huge tag fan. I personally think they make the best and consistent glass. I just scored an lb of the new Fade to Black and the Atomic Stardust!

majority of what i use most days is tag. with some NS and GA... and a bunch of smaller guys like east koast raw. I went out of my way to support them when they started and now have like 8-9 lbs of their flavors.

Anyway dont mean to take this off topic from the GA - since i started it ahhaha. but YASSSSSSS TAG!

[MUPH]

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

[Dave Umbs]

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

I dont plan on it id like to keep buying their color, but i feel like they are forcing me to not buy their color due to the lack of notification and availability of color, i would have been happy to spend that same money i spent on knock off serum on the real deal if i could get it from GA at a fair price. But by not having these colors available they subsequently are forcing me to go to another color maker to get color.

I have literally been waiting a year to get some serum or since whenever the shit came out.

I dont mind waiting a few weeks for something to be available, but not knowing if its going to be available let alone if your gonna be able to buy some before it sells out, but if NS and Traut have something comparable on the market and its instock its kinda a no brainer to go with the later companies,then gambling on a pound of color from GA.

That doesnt mean that the NS or Traut aint gonna sell out quick either though so if you wait you might get screwed by GA, but by also waiting and giving GA a chance to get you color you might screw yourself cause the other companies color will sell out fast and you could end up with nothing from GA. Thus nothing from all 3 companies and you get to wait again.


Greasys stuff is alright, i have seen some people complaining about quality lately though. What ive used in the past has been nice. Its worth checking out again
I think hand of man tubing has a CFL tubing that is serum or knock of serum based but ive yet to use it.

Yea i know this thread is supposed tobe about GA, it is worth mentioning other companies though, given the situation i described above.

It seems regardless of if you want to support them or not there is no guarantee you'll get the color you need, thus making it hard to support them unless your just gonna buy the basic color line, which only will get you so far since there are no cads in that color line anymore. I have money i want to spend on GA color but, i dont need the basic colors like ive stated, i need cads and hype which aren't available so what am i todo, i cant wait forever and let my business tank when there are replacement colors around.

I just wanted to say also GA i love your color, i want to continue to use your color and support your business, but somethings gotta give how can you really expect small time artists to support you with the way things are going? I shouldnt have to see an IG post of someones new color to know about new limited colors on your site just to rush on there to see its all gone.

[Jackass Glass]

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

when i can avoid it... meaning if another company makes a sim color, ill buy that one. even at a premium. I dont like what they did to the distribs, but frankly thats easy for me to say/do. i dont use much glass compared to the guys who do this for real... so i can easily sit up on my high tower and it wont cost me a lot.

[daveabr]

Clearly the distributor view point is that we have literally spent millions with a company over the last 17 or so years. Then all the stuff that actually drives sales and profit (hype colors) is taken away from us, and we are left with the "classic line" it makes you feel a bit screwed over. The classic line is great and all, but we aren't ever stocked in an ample way with those colors either. It's a classic bite the hand that feeds you situation, and when your the one who gets bit in that situation, it stings. We have heard nothing but upset people when calling about GA colors. It's been going on for a couple years really. Every time someone orders GA that isn't in stock (which is most things, not just hype) our job here at ABR is to find a suitable substitution for that color. Someone orders Twilight, we are out, we offer Berry Gumboldt. Customer buys it, learns to love that color, then reorders it in the future instead of Twilight. We don't want to lose a sale just because a color we ordered 6 months to a year ago isn't in stock yet, so we sub NS, TAG, Momka, whatever line has a suitable replacement.

So, as distributors drop the line, people will be weened off the GA color over time in my opinion. Distributors are going to try even harder to sub customers out for other lines if they are feeling hosed as well. So, we will see how it plays out. I feel the manufacturers who support the long standing network of distributors will win out in the long run.

[sunray]

Totally agree with Dave.. It has been a couple of years that we haven't been able to get a complete
order and often it was half. (So she says you don't buy enough) How can you when they run the company like this.
so the shelves of GA at Trev's Glass are pretty empty. Loved the way the parents ran the company..
Jason Lee put something up on facebook a week or so ago it reached over 500 responses. Was amazing to me
to see how many people were upset at them. That is a lot of lost business.

[hashmasta-kut]

I dont know Dave. I love good color, and have tried most peoples. I love Glass Alchemy Eclipse, and pretty much all their crayons are easier to work than most others. I prefer to stock their crayon colors if I can. I have red from Northstar that is probably 6 years old sitting at the bottom of a red section i'd rather not use. The cad colors red orange and yellow seem less boily. GA may be making a bad marketing decision, but I do think they make a lot of great color.

[SNYD]

Kind of like when abr started selling glasstique's on ebay, and screwing Glass alchemy on what was a great test program for artists?

[Dave Umbs]

FYI The Neocad orange and red are on their website as of this post

as well as occasional quality serum

im sure it will sell out fast so if your looking to try these colors get them before they go

[SMOKEY BANDIT]

What is the Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance?

The Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance (GAMA) is the top tier of the Glass Alchemy Rewards Program. When you join the Program you automatically become an Alchemy Insider and begin earning points towards GAMA membership. Once you accumulate the required number of points, you can redeem them for a 12 month Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance membership. The Makers Alliance is where the magic happens: early access to Small Batch colors and additional discounts on color.

FROM THEIR WEBSITE https://glassalchemy.com/pages/glass-alchemy-rewards

[istandalone24/7]

it's the fuckboi's hype club.

[Jackass Glass]

it's the fuckboi's hype club.

im dead... lmao


seriously tho. it is potentially the most narcissistic creation since facebook. I really do think its great that the color companies take into account peoples views on their color... then again they would just be shitty business people if they didnt. And if these artists go out of their way to use and figure out things then props to them, but i don't want to hear about it. i know these guys exist and are amazing, many give me inspiration all the time. i don't need GA to create a hall of fame so we can all collectively go ...... oh wowowowowowowowow.....

[istandalone24/7]

i do have to say, i ordered a few lbs of frit and oc quality rods, and was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the o/c (i know 2015's o/c sale was almost complete shit...based on what i rec'd and that of a few others) and the discount. granted, i saved a whole $30 over full retail, but still that was nice.
i do intend to keep buying o/c rods, and if at some point i can get my mitts on some of the hype colors, i'll try them.

it took me a couple years to bother trying illuminati (i know it's a NS product, but this is a "for instance")...and now that i have, all other uv colors seem to fall short.

[T-Rex]

I've certainly seen a lot more negativity towards GA than positivity during this whole ordeal. I think they have some good ideas but it wasn't handled very well - especially for this particular customer base (glassblowing community).

I don't see what the GAMA brings to the table for me, as a glassblower. What I understand is that there are a group of privileged glassblowers who get free access to all the best deals they have to offer. I wouldn't even be surprised if they get given free glass to make pieces with. The publicity for GA is more than worth it I'm sure. I try not to feel jealous because there is truly no point (and I don't deserve free stuff), but honestly what other feeling are they trying to invoke?

For me getting all my glass in one place is really important because I'm in Canada, and shipping from the US can be extremely expensive. It almost always costs more than $100 USD to get a box of glass shipped to me, whether it is 5, 10 or 20 lbs. It changes how I need to maintain my inventory - it is in my best interest to stockpile large quantities rather than buying random pounds here and there.

Anyway what they do is up to them, I'm just looking forward to when the cad scare is long behind us and the market is flooded with all the colours we can't get our hands on right now.

[Dave Umbs]

Its like the trump presidency, i hate it, but im not going to renounce my U.S. citizenship and move overseas because i love this country; just not the actions and choices of the government.

I dont agree with or like GA's changes but i will continue to use their color because i really like their color and it works well, and is high quality most of the time*.
"*Except for the first quality bundle of eclipse im using right now has so much air in it is kinda insane for firsts"

I just want to try some of these "hype" colors and that is why i made that post yesterday because i figured there are others like me wanted to do the same.

If it turns out the Neo cads are shit, and the OC serum i ordered is garbage then i wont need to get anymore, but with the limited availability and high demand i just want a chance to get these colors and try them.

Over the next year all the hype for the older hype colors will die down as more new hype shit comes out, so the older colors should become more available, also if your like me and only use certain colors at certain times a few pounds will last years, im still using ROY, from 2014-15. So once the big buyers stock up, the smaller people such as myself will be able to attain these colors easier

At the vary least they should eat the shipping costs, when im paying 65 bucks a pound and gotta spend 5k to get a discount, then again if you know what your doing its easy to make a profit at that price, the color i dont understand how people use is the 150-200 plus triple layered tubes and whatnot.

[istandalone24/7]

What I understand is that there are a group of privileged glassblowers who get free access to all the best deals they have to offer. I wouldn't even be surprised if they get given free glass to make pieces with

i've been told by more than a few people that the "big dogs" do in fact get materials for free. that they can cherry pick, and what we get as 1st quality is actually closer to odds.
idk how true that is, but again i've heard it in more than one place.

[Swim]

Chartruese and olive crayon FTW, but I dont really give a shi about their other colors.

[Swim]

unless I get those colors second hand, I may never have them again

[Mattypo]

I don't really support GA. Those medium is for everyone, if you are going to hand pick who gets the shit then good start a private club. Northstar is my go to. Their philosophy and the way they treat the community as a whole is leaps and bounds ahead of GA. But seriously all this aside this is a medium like anything else. Get what you need for your work and that's it

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

[xiaan]

I need some cherrywood strike 70 grade frit.

[xiaan]

I dont care what they do, or how they sell their color. Just make sure that all the colors are still available.