how's business?

[Beck]

Hey. plugging away on the production line for four years now, seen my share of ups and downs, diversified to make up for the loss of business in the past. Lately my distributor guy who is usually the man (knows many tricks of the bus.) seems a little worried. The left coast is really getting inundated with cheap-ass shit from god knows where (they're not labeled) lately and the market is getting tighter and tighter. Also, do you think that gasoline being $3+ per gallon is cutting down on our customer bases' discretionary spending, thus reducing the amount of pieces being sold? Or is it just another case of chicken little? Summer is here and things aren't as hot as they once were...Any of you big time prodo people concerned/seen a decline?

[jedi glassworks]

I do lots of prodo and nicer glass, we ALWAYS have tons of work. My wife and I have been doing this as a business for 8 years so we've gotten to pick and choose the places we want to sell to. We tried to hire 2 people to keep up with everyting, didnt work out though, so its back to just us!

[Beck]

Do you distribute your own product or do you use a middle man? I live in a very rural area so am forced to use one or two distribution guys (with a cut in my profit) unless I want to drive a couple of hours to Seattle to try to sell to the pakistanis in the U district. LOL
Actually that's not true, there are a few shops in Seattle that I happily do business with here and there to fill in when short on prodo orders.
Glad to here that things are going well for you and your wife! Thanks for the reply.

[Kool]

Same situation as Jedi here. My wife and I have plenty of work and not enough time....and on that note, I should be behind the torch, so.....
yeah, I have noticed shops complaining about slow sales, etc, but they keep buying. I just try to make sure I bring what they need and keep developing new products that I don't see other people making. I'll tell you what, the $3+ gas is affecting me. I drive at least once a month and live hours from my best accounts. Oh well. Maybe I'll be able to reduce my dependence on gasoline sometime in the future. Hybrid? Bio-diesel? Something.

[Beck]

Good for y'all on keeping busy. I made a selling trip to the big city a couple of weeks ago, they bought totally different stuff from what they told me they needed, go figure. I find that it works best having some of everything. Do your shops sell imported glass along with yours, have they been able to turn that shit over? The chinese/indian/pick a third world country product that I have seen is pretty awful (weird bowls/weird color/tiny holes, etc.) but one guy told me that he gets 3" ISO color spoon for $3 and then he sells them for the same price as my stuff for a much larger profit. How long before people notice the quality difference and stop buying it? prolly never...
Also I sell a gangload more handpieces and small stuff over headdies at the shops--is that your experience as well? Do y'all tend to specialize in one or the other or do you sell everything and anything?

[jedi glassworks]

I go and sell all of my pieces myself, about three or four times a month. I find that there are 2 basic types of store owners/managers, the ones that are in the business because they like the culture and crowd, and the owners that are in the business purely to make money. I stick with the shops that like the culture, and for the most part they don't buy imported glass. The owners that are in it for the money tend to carry the crappy imported pipes and dont care that their shops look like the rest of the shops down the road.

[dnug42]

slowskiessssssss here...i live in nor cal and work for distrib. and hes been in biz for like seven years...and its ass slow...i call shops all over the country' loads... and some people who have been in biz for 20 plus years well they ain't never slow...but other shops are pretty slow...orders dried up...its the ol wait and see...my boss has not slowed down ordering from his guys...but hell no one wants to slow shit down- it don't look good...but i go to shops in cali- super hard customers to get because loads of glass in cali- i heard down in lala that there are warehouse import distribust all in downtown- you can shop till you get the prices you want- and the shit is not bad...i heard i have seen some in a shop in santa rosa that just opened...iso...thick- good color- and as the dude told me "triple blow" ...hahahahah i wuz like sure doode...but hey thats the face of it- its out there and people can get the shit cheep...so that's whut they want to put in there shops....weekkk...but also killer shops- that buy olny da goods... but hell, gotta be innovative.?...right...i think things are going to pick up....i can feel it......

[wahoo]

How long before people notice the quality difference and stop buying it? prolly never...



There was a shitload, and I mean SHITLOAD of imports at Bonnaroo this year and people are starting to notice. Well, atleast in that crowd. I actually had a kid come up who looked about 16 (but let's call him 18) looked at my work and said " finally, some glass that's not that imported shit" I bout kissed him. If we keep explaining imports to people (especially those of us who spend sometime with retail) the word will spread.

As for work Ill say the same thing I been sayin for years, if I had 4 hands I'd keep em busy. If your work is quality and priced well it will sell itself. By "priced well I mean the buyer is happy, and more important, so are you.

[Beck]

Scary about Bonaroo and lala land, though not terribly surprising in a "free market society" lol.
Still filling my standing orders as usual but everytime I go to the wharehouse to deliver seems like there's a lot of product sitting on the shelf. Guess I'm just trying to hedge my bets against a long cold winter and get some idea of where things are headed. My product line is sound and I've been able to keep up with the changing times thus far, so I'm sure I'll be OK. Finally purchased my Liquid tanks so at least I don't pay rental anymore, lower the overhead!
Now that I think about it, seems like all I've heard from the very beginning is that it's the hardest ever and I'll never survive, and yet like a phoenix from the flame I rise! :stare:

[S.C.Glass]

How much were ya paying for rent? I pay about 50 a month. I heard that liquids cost a bundle to buy. Few thousand or so. Trying to do the math, I'll have to ask my oxy guy about actual prices. Business isn't bad, only have one dist. around the northwest. But actually haven't heard from him in a while. Other than that business as usual.

[nickglassdood]

they sell imported iso spoons at all the tobacco shops here for 10 -15 bux its kinda funny

[Beck]

funny...Nationwide, retail sales were unexpectedly down 1/4% 2nd quarter, I'm sure it won't affect us.
I was paying around $60 per month for O2 rental. My new tank was actually a deal from a friend of mine who is no longer in the business. My supplier lists a new liquid tank at $1800, well worth the expense if you plan on being around for a while. I've also toyed with the idea of building an O2 generator, a scientific blower that I know built one with enough pressure to operate a couple of carlisles.
The folks that I apprenticed under doing offhand work are retiring and they've decided to bestow their furnace and annealer on my unworthy ass. Really excited about the prospect of getting out of the pipe biz and into hot glass. Slowly investing in the equipment and tools, should have the hot shop up and running by the end of the year!! :D

[charles]

yeah ive noticed a huge difference in the biz up in maine over the past year. Stores that were picking up at least a grand every two weeks were only takin about four bills every two weeks. Kindda depressing but I figure if I can make it through this than anythings possible.

[smutboy420]

Our last main account just got out of glass. So were pretty dead in the water here. and pedals sales have been almost non exsistant for the last few months. even tho I was hoping summer was going to be the time peep where going to be working more and wanting pedals. I guessed that one wrong for sure. Glad I din't go to the bank with that hope 'cause I'd be pretty screwed.
I have no idea what the heck is going on. but I do know my ulser is starting to bother me latly When I think about it.
Gosh I hope its justa summer thing

[cmfk_420]

Chindia..... and the death of the American Production Pipe Artist.

I've seen shit that would make you want to fuckikng puke. In less than two years you'll be seeing crap from china and india that you won't be able to tell the difference between that and american glass. It's just a matter of time.

LALA downtown... yeah... there is about 8 corners and probably 2-3 blocks worth of either LA Sweatshop glass or Import Sweatshop glass. The glass is getting better with every shipment. Scary.

What to do?????

EDUCATE YOUR CLIENTS/CUSTOMERS/FRIENDS, Tell them the difference.

In India, they don't even wear specs. When a torch pops they all run, because something else usually pops or blows up. I know all this because I know pipe makers that have been there training them fools. I understand it is a sad situation, but you know what...

Evolve and progress, or be left standing, where your at, with your dick in your hand.

Innovate

peace

[BenKrishman]

The shops I go to here like the imported glass. There was one shop that always carried a good amount of handpieces that looked to be made in the US, but when I went in the other day he had 3x the handpipes I've ever seen him have in stock, and alot of them looked i/o impoted :( No one around here carries real headdie glass either, The nicer shop occasionally gets some headie pieces in, but it's usually overpriced(unless it's real nice).

[The Goat]

Its kinda weird for me if i cant sell prodo i make some headys and sell them if they slow i sell good amount of prodo and shops around here are cralwin with imports my shops sell both but say this is from a sweat shop and this is from justin a blower that lives 5 minutes down the road. every body likes the 5 minutes down the road guy. since its me im stoked! and some of the cheep imports are gettin really good lookin.

JUST REMBER MOST IMPORTS DONT HAVE DICRO SO THROW SOME STRIPS IN YOU I/O PEICES AND THEY USUALLY SELL CAUZ PEOPLE LIKE DICRO. THATS MY EXPERIENCE!!

[BenKrishman]

As a consumer, I guess something I can say along the lines of goats advice is that the shop I go to has spoons/sherly's that will have a honeycomb or reversal on the face of the pipe. He sells them at higher prices(45-60 depending on size) but people like them, and they definately seem to sell better than alot of the i/o he has.

[N!pples]

Look at these prices this guy out of the country sent me... Un fookin real! There Killing us!

Bubbler SWB001 12.65
Double Chamber SWDC01 17.65
Mixed Locket SWML01 1.45 Per Pc
Heady SWH001 23.10
Heady SWH002 22.95
Bubbler SWB002 12.85
Four Chamber SWFC01 29.15
Sarluck SWS001 8.07
One Heater SWOH01 3.35
Spoon SWS002 6.25
http://www.smokinglass.com/SWML01.jpg http://www.smokinglass.com/SWB001.jpg http://www.smokinglass.com/SWDC01.jpg http://www.smokinglass.com/SWS002.JPG http://www.smokinglass.com/SWDL01.jpg

But I might Still have to buy a few! :tongue2:

Jon

[phab]

...the bowl hole in this pic looks pretty far off center.

http://www.smokinglass.com/SWS002.JPG

[timinny420]

and they keep getting better - there going to be real good soon --

[β]

still tho, ........damn. i'm glad the people i sell to haven't found this guy. $1 fuckin 45 cents 3@44!!!! god!#@$in. dam@*#l!@#@@! for a @#@!@ioin stup^%45id pendant.

[The Goat]

ya, those things are everywhere but you dont know how many shop owners have asked me to fix them things when the seams break. bumpin in to just about anything. the seams are rigid just heated pushed together. let em buy that shit and when they break either in the shop or in the consumers possesion. and that shop or the consumer won't buy em again. unless their stupid then i dont want to deal with them any way. qulity of workmanship still matters to some even if dosent to you or who ever buys this stuff.

[N!pples]

Very True! This guy claims he makes them all himself and sent me pics of him working in the shiesty studio! I think I want to buy a few just see what they are all about. or maybe to have to offer the shity stores who dont want to buy good glass. :puzzled: Maybe I should anneal them better and drop em to see what happens! :notamused

Just Unreal!

Jon

[melted]

This is definately a problem in the midwest. Alot of the higher end stores know whats up though. I had a buddy travel to chicago and of course he went on a headshop tour. At one of the nicer shops, the owner had bought a shitton of shitty indian glass. Whenever a customer came in and chatted with him or asked why his spoons etc where 'so much more $' than the street vendors, he would give them a demonstaration. He would drop one of his US prodo spoons and a indian spoon from the same height. Guess which one crumbled to pieces. It is good to know that some shop owners are really out there letting their customers know how BAD the imports are.

[beachglass]

that kinda stuff like jon posted is everywhere here and has been for a while. its not uncommon to walk into a regular variety store and see I/O pipes like those for 15-30 bucks...they just have bins of them on the counter. thinner outside spoons for 4-10 bucks

but thats not to say business is bad where i am. most skilled blowers i know seem to be busy all the time. still a market for headies and canadian stuff at most headshops

for me personally business is slow as hell...but picking up :)

[PortlandGlassBlowers]

My prodo ranges from 8$ to 35$(wholesale). I just try to come up with as much different product in that price range. I dont make headies. There are plenty of people that make sick ass stuff. Its not that I wouldnt like to. But prodo is where the bread and butter is for me. I will probaly never be rich ... But hopefully i will never have to work a cook job again or something like that.

[newmexicomagma]

so far im with PGB i do alot of prodo work to pay the bills. ( well i guess 25 hours a week isnt to much.) and try to use the rest of the time to polish up on my different artwork. if i had more money i would try all kinds of things but for now i am stuck to what i can do. i cant wait to sell my house i want to startn trying to do big boro sculpture. but i make anywhere from 30-50 i/os a week and that gets me by.

[Gibsons Glassworks]

YOO im in BC canada and cant make the shit fast enough i just recently hired a prep boy to pull stringers and im working as mush as i can! i was sick there for a while limiting my hours on the torch but now im back on 8 hours a day and i wholesale orders to alberta, the prairies are where its at.

i mostly make thick ISO but funkify them to my style and sell for 25-50 wholesale mostly. but they want the 15$ wholesale spoons the most, but i havent got the prep boy making them yet.

fuck china shit, make quality glass and shops and the public will recconizzze!

[knobbs1234]

I refuse to sell the import shit in my shop and educate people on what it's all about. I've had people bring in a mini I.O bub from the local cigarette imporium and say "Look I got this for $15 bucks". I reply with, " Thank you for not supporting the hard working American's and supporting a sweat shop in India" That ususally gets these rednecks everytime.:tongue2:

[Dennis Brady]

Chindia..... and the death of the American Production Pipe Artist.

I've seen shit that would make you want to fuckikng puke. In less than two years you'll be seeing crap from china and india that you won't be able to tell the difference between that and american glass. It's just a matter of time.

LALA downtown... yeah... there is about 8 corners and probably 2-3 blocks worth of either LA Sweatshop glass or Import Sweatshop glass. The glass is getting better with every shipment. Scary.

What to do?????

EDUCATE YOUR CLIENTS/CUSTOMERS/FRIENDS, Tell them the difference.

In India, they don't even wear specs. When a torch pops they all run, because something else usually pops or blows up. I know all this because I know pipe makers that have been there training them fools. I understand it is a sad situation, but you know what...

Evolve and progress, or be left standing, where your at, with your dick in your hand.

Innovate

peace

It's refreshing to see comments from someone that has faced the reality of the current market and it's probable future. The idea that the artisans in Asia can't produce the same quality of work as the Americans is naive self-delusion. Chinese and Indian artisans are capable of doing good work and they're willing to do it for considerably less then anyone here. The only way American and Canadian artisans will be able to compete is with original and innovative designs.

Adapt or die.

My personal suggestion? Abandon making balls, beads, or bongs and more into sculptural work. The profit margin is better and the market is growing instead of shrinking.

[The Glass Fish]

does anybody know the laws regarding "right to know" information? If your t-shirt is made in mexico, it is required by law to say so on the tag. Why don't all those Chindia pipes have labels? Isn't that illeagal? Do they arrive labeled and the shop owner remove the labels? Just curious. Business is good anyways. My stuff doesn't look even close to the imported, and I am constantly coming up with new lines to keep it fresh. Gotta hustle to pay the bills though. If I only worked 25 hours a week I would starve. I include my phone call time and selling trips into my workload (also paperwork) and I probably work 50-60hrs per week. 40hrs on the torch +/-.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

alot of shops in colorado have chindia shit on thier shelfs, theres like 50 stores in denver and i only sell to ten, only a couple of those ONLY carry american. the chindia shit is getting better, its gettin harder and harder to tell which is which. i have prodo spoons from 5 - 20. i dont like to make plain iso spoons anymore, way too many people doin it. adaptation is the key. stay ahead or get lost in the crowd.

[phab]

...i think youre right that imported stuff by law has to have info on where its made. but if you remember kathy lee crosby had a clothing line that was doing well until people found out it was made by sweatshop labor so people/companies try to skirt the law on that.

long time ago there was a company from japan that made stuff that said 'made in usa' notice it didnt say made IN the usa, but made in usa....the town in japan is 'usa' pronounced yewsa

[dnug42]

well shit- this post is back- we are slowskies- feb was dead- but we did a new flyer and starting to get going again- my boss is still buying assloads of american made product...and contaners are coming into the us every day from china and india- i thought it was illigal to bring into the us containers full of pipes- but if you pay the right people its a-ok- it total bs- so was the champs show flooded with import shit again? any one go?

[mer]

i thought it was illigal to bring into the us containers full of pipes-

my distributor told me that a couple of shipping containers full got busted in florida last month. i guess some of the cheezier stores came crawling back. serves them right.