Perfume Evaporation??

[Stratisphere]

So, i've recently had a gallery express it's concern that my perfume bottles are not airtight. They had told me that 2 customers now were worried that their expensive perfume would evaporate. My stoppers are all fit very tightly with no gaps or anything like that between the stopper and the vessel. I can't really see how much or any evaporation would happen. I suggested if he is worried that I could put rubber grommets on (tacky looking), and he suggested ground joint style (no equipment).......So far my best idea is to just leave them as is and explain that's how they are done.... Just wondering if anyone had any other thoughts?

[smutboy420]

I'd agree with him and say ground joint style.
I have no idea how expensive the perfume is that the customers are puting in them but if its $1000 an oz perfum even a single milliliter lost to the air is about $33 worth.

[Mr. Wonka]

Beyond glass- Contact Fyrsmith for a ground glass tool. I believe he sells the kit for $60.00, and you can make various sized stoppers with it. Well worth the money for professional looking stoppers with an air tight seal.

btw- you can look him up in the members list and PM him.

I hope that helps... Tom

[Stratisphere]

thanks!

[Greymatter Glass]

Another simple technique taught to me by Bandhu is to make your joint as tight as possible on the torch then use a bit of silicon carbide or alumina and water and just twist the stopper and bottle together till they stick and you can hold the bottle by the stopper.

The guy at the gallery is right, and poorly fitted stoppers are not "just the way they're made" but you're right that a gromet or rubber stopper wouldn't look good, so certainly find a way to make your stoppers fit.

-Doug

[J McGhee]

there is a compound, that can make any dropper air tight rub it on the bottle and the dropper then twist it makes its own glass on glass seal.... not sure what the stuff is called i see seen people use it thought......

[smutboy420]

there is a compound, that can make any dropper air tight rub it on the bottle and the dropper then twist it makes its own glass on glass seal.... not sure what the stuff is called i see seen people use it thought......Today 08:16 PM

The compound is probelly silicon carbide. I've seen people use ready made "Valve grinding compound" Normaly used for hand laping intake valves on engins. For working ground joints on glass.

But a tool that makes consistant joints seems a lot easier then having to have each on done to fit the pcs its going in.

[Swampy]

I've ground to fit a decanter stopper on a crystal decanter which worked;

Fill the decanter with water and an eggcup full of abrasive, I used the same AlOx* 180 grit I used for sandblasting.

Turn it upside down and so that the water runs down into the joint carrying the abrasive. Rotate the stopper as far as you can with light pressure, then back, then as far as you can. Change your grip and rotate as far as you can, then back, then far as you can.

Continue with that sequence until the whole joint has a witness mark from the grinding.

You only need light pressure! (about) every ten rotations, remove the stopper and clean the stopper and hole because the abrasive will tend to 'ball up' and make a groove around the stopper.


*aluminium oxide

[Stratisphere]

Thanks for all the info! Think I might try the silicon carbide method first but I did PM Fyrsmith about one of these ground joint tools. Would be nice to get a consistant joint every time! Anyone know where I would pick up such a thing as silicon carbide or alumina?

[J McGhee]

ive also seen don Aka frysmiths.. tools they are very nice and would work great to.....

[medicatedMELTDOWN]

Thanks for all the info! Think I might try the silicon carbide method first but I did PM Fyrsmith about one of these ground joint tools. Would be nice to get a consistant joint every time! Anyone know where I would pick up such a thing as silicon carbide or alumina?

what you get from fyrsmith requires silicon carbide...just so you know. it includes a fatty block of graphite with 6 different sized holes, a metal reamer that fits all the holes, a container of 400 grit silicon carbide and a little block of wax.

I bought mine from him at AGI and it was $60


Bandhu has an almost identical setup except his is made out of brass

[Swampy]

Thanks for all the info! Think I might try the silicon carbide method first but I did PM Fyrsmith about one of these ground joint tools. Would be nice to get a consistant joint every time! Anyone know where I would pick up such a thing as silicon carbide or alumina?

There ya go, all good info. Just be aware that Silicon carbide is incredibly more aggresive than aluminium oxide due to the hardness of the material. AlOx will break down more readily into a finer grit and thus give a fine finish but take longer to do it.

When you use the SC just check regularly that you've ground it to the extent you want and you're getting the finish you want.

[kruger]

you can also get silicon carbide from a sand blasting supply house

[brettodie]

heres a question i was asked about the ground glass fittings for perfume. what are the chances of the powder created by opening and closing the jar getting to the point where it irratates the skin of the person wearing it? i had a guy that wanted a dry piece with a ground fitting instead of a carb and i said no to that. some amount of glass dust is being created everytime you use it.just some thoughts and concerns that ive had about the glass on glass fittings. peace brett

[Sharp Glass]

How do you figure that glass dust is created everytime? It is created when you grind it, but not after that. If one material was harder than the other, then the softer material may break down creating dust, but not when both are the same, unless excesive force is used, and when glass and excessive force come together, usually chucks much larger than dust are created!

[brettodie]

you have a bunch of fractured glass rubbing aginst other fractured glass,there will be at least a smal amount of "dust" or other debris created by rubbing them togather.i was just asking what people thought about it causing skin irration for some people. is the exposure large no not at all but there is some. peace brett

[Greymatter Glass]

Brettodie....

Ground glass fittings are used in the scientific field. Think about the problems associated with contamination if it were true ground glass fittings create dust.

I will conceed there may be some hardly measureable dust rubbed off over the life of a piece, but it's easily considered inconsequential.

As for this being a skin irratant - I highly doubt it. Most people who live in or near a city are getting far more toxic crap on their skin from the air. The minute amount of dust that _MIGHT_ be generated by a ground glass fitting shouldn't be cause for concern.

I would say the same of using it in a dry piece. No considerable risk. Of course this all assumes proper use of the fittings. i.e. not grinding them together with much pressure, no getting dirt in the fittings, using only approved sealants and oils, taking care not to damage the fittings, etc....

Anyways... that's my 2¢ for ya.

oh, and silicon carbide and/or alumina oxide is easy to get in very small quantities from sand paper. Silicon carbide is black, alumina is reddish brown. You can scrape it off the paper, or just use the paper. An 8x10 sheet of 200 grit emery cloth should get you enough silicon carbide to finish 50+ bottles if you reuse it.

-Doug

[Stratisphere]

to the hardware store!

[prairieson]

Rubber grommets are definitely not the way to go for perfume bottles. The oils and solvents used in perfume or aromatherapy oils can attack and degrade rubber, causing a mess, ruining the grommet and the perfume or whatever is in the bottle. A ground seat has worked fine in chemistry labs for well over a century.