im thinking about opening a shop in IL

[zippoz]

i have been going to business school for a few years now, and have been running random businesses for 2 years now.

i would like to open up a shop somewhere around my town, but i would like some advise form anyone else that has been in my situation.

legally i know that the poliec arent too friendly about glass shops... so my plan is this
ill make ths shop a "tobacco shop" and sell cigs and cigar magizines just to kep up the appearance . but mainly the shop would be centered around the glass. also i plan on having every one of my customers that buys anything sign a waiver of intent, saying that they will not use the glass for anything illegal or transfer it to anyone under the age of 18.

what do you all think? going to jail or getting shut down is not what im trying to do here...

[Royal]

seeems like a good plan...i would talk to a lawyer and find out all the legalities*

[Mr. Wonka]

I posted a response to a similar question HERE (http://www.thegldg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=868)

[zippoz]

Drug paraphernalia law is outlined in US Code: title 21, sec. 863 . As much as people want to argue the wording, ethics, or validity of this law, it applies to every state. A few exerpts that can screw anyone selling glass pieces are:

(1) metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls;
(2) water pipes;
(3) carburetion tubes and devices;

(8) carburetor pipes;

(11) chillums;
(12) bongs;


Those descriptions cover about 99.999% of the "tobacco" pieces being sold today, glass or not. Yes, the descriptions are very broad, but it gives the feds the opportunity to drag you through more legal crap than anyone here can afford to go through.

I believe several shops have "beat the system" on technicalities over the years, but at a HUGE financial (and emotional) price.

There are plenty of pipe shops out there that have been in business for many years that have not been "pinched", and probably never will be.....but do you want to find out the hard way? I sure as hell don't.

One of the stores busted during Opration Pipe Dreams was my friend Glen's store (GW Pipe Dreams). He had a "legit" store with a tobacco licence, cigar shop, signs all over the place such as "for tobacco use only", "not for sale to minors", etc.....and he sold NOTHING with pot leaves, cartoon characters, or anything that resembled "other" drug paraphernalia. The feds busted him and he got off easy with several years of probation and some fines.

The cost of his ordeal for "beating the system" exceeded $200,000.00. He also has a probation officer that stops in ALL THE TIME and checks out his store (tattoo shop), looks through his financial records, and takes urine samples from him on a regular basis. Is that victory?

I'm not trying to preach anything here, but be aware that the glass pipe industry is a gamble. Some people get away with it, some people don't, and some people end up in the middle (like Glen).

Take your chances if you must, but try to have a fat bank account to defend yourself if the hammer happens to fall on you.

BTW- anyone who thinks that this law is bogus and can be beaten without question, you shouldn't be spewing your "rainbow lawer" crap here......you should be in court defending these shops and getting people off the hook if there's any truth to your claims.

That's just my .02 on the subject.

i understand that this is a federal law.... i have taken alot of business law classes, and lots and lots of business school and i have one question as to this law and how it pertins to the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.

the interstate commerce clause states that if any busines crosses state lines then it is to be regulated by a federal court... i think that the reason pipe dreams happened, especiall to the online stores is because of this clause... also chong glass gotbusted for shipping out of state, and envoking the clause....

i think that that law would be much harder to enforce if all of your business was in-state... and that the federal laws would be much harder to apply, thats what i think... ill ask my lawyer about it, and scan my textbooks for it.

[Mr. Wonka]

2 of the shops busted during OPD never sold out of state nor did they have a web site....they were "mom and pop" type stores. G.W. Pipe Dreams / Studio 13, and Phantasm (I believe that was their name).

[Satori]

Did any of those shops import glass over state lines? I just know that the place I sell to only does local glass and refuses to sell out of state or to ship anything in from out of state. They are doing so to lay low and avoid the feds attention. Or so I'm told. I just like it because if they did ship stuff in from out of state, there's no way I'd be able to compete with that stuff. It's so cheap! Some guy brought in some fancy softglass waterpipe and was wanting to sell them to the headshop for $20 a piece! It costs us that much just to make one! We sell ours to them for $60 and up and they sell for $100 or more. Thank god she won't buy any of those cheap imports...it'd drop our sales for sure, but she did sell that one he brought in for $120 :) Nice little $100 profit for the store.

Anyway, so I've drifted off topic a bit. Just was curious if those shops were purely local stuff or if maybe they got busted because of importing over state lines.

[bc]

Tom has some good points but has also suffered a 'mental beatdown' from 'the man.' I might feel his way to if I was selling pipes an the feds came in an scared the shit out of me, but then again I know not to sell pipes in PA or MA, flea market or not.

If your local area is known to be kewl, then you have no problem. Knowing that the local cops are dicks, then, I would pass an find a secure location. There all over this country. oh yeah, getting custys to sign something...that'll werk, NOT!

[Bglass]

here in portland one of the main reason we have shops is because of pypes palace. they have been running thier shop since 1973 or something. the first shop here, its a small place in the ghetto of here but they do pretty dam phat. but there has been a price to pay for it. it think since the 70's they owner has gone to jail more than he can count he said, a ridiculous amount. but when he gets out he just reopens, or while hes in jail his wife just opens no matter what. soon portland just gave up and now there is a lot more freedom for shop owners here. infact its kinda dumb and scary but on their card it says potland, OR. kinda funny i guess, but i know of a couple more shops using that. but either way its cool on that guys part to fight for us and other shop owners. also here their is a shop that is advertised as a pawn shop. you walk in and its all crap, you go to the back and litterally he has the biggest stock out of any store here, and their is over thirty shops around here. and basically everything sold out of their is just glass. its mainly a big cover up. but either way if opening a shop is your passion dont let anybody get you down, it can be done and happens every day nomatter if you do it or not. if you would open your own shop you would be helping out people like you and me in your community, which is a great thing. go with it and do your thing.

[kbinkster]

I would think that if you decided to take on such a venture, you should be very careful about who your neighbors would be. If you put a shop somewhere where the people already there don't want a smoke shop, you'll be in for a lot of touble from people who will make it their mission to shut you down.

[homer]

I deal with 5 shops in illinois....its all about location.3 of them deal with frequesnt police visits....despite having nothing drug related. Just glass and tobacco. If you are opening in the burbs or in the city, make sure you can get the glass you need and very cheap. Give me a call, I live in northwestern illinois, and we are opening a strange shop soon.....

Homer