China

[Joseph Corcoran]

Is going to take over the world.

[Joseph Corcoran]

In related news:

http://www.glasspipes.org/Gallery.asp?GalleryID=11993

[dellis326]

At one time they said Japan was taking over the world. . .



That didn't last long . . .

[Mr. Smiley]

They're not taking over the world, they're just buying all the concrete and wood. ;)

Nice pipes! :D

[Orrza]

Ha...
You got to admit that a bowl with authentic chinese writing is way cool...
Pitty no one else but them can write it...

Hay, Do you think pipes with hebrew words will consider as cool?
I know Madonna would love one if she smoked... :D

Peace,
Orr.

[Robert Mickelsen]

Read this article for a really comprehensive view on this subject. Turns out we do have control over our destiny. But do we have what it takes to do the job?

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,1081269-1,00.html

[Greymatter Glass]

The pipes that Guangming Zhang posted on gp.org are actually kinda cool; here's why: They're unique, they're of an Oriental style, and they look well made.

I admit it's a tough pill to swallow that some kids 4,000 miles away can make what you make for less.... but let's not forget, that same kid cannot go an get on food stamps, that kid cannot go to school for free, that kid can't _OWN_ anything more than his clothes and a few personal essentials.

So what are our options?

-Doug

[Mr. Smiley]

I didn't even realize it was an importer. I thought you were showing off something you made. I think I should read comments and not just look at pictures. I always hated books without pictures. :) It's just a matter of time folks. They are going to get really good... really fast... and sorry to say, but it's the sharing of info online that's going to help speed it up. :(

I agree Doug... it looks like pretty clean work. I'd like to see one in person.

[PalisadeGlassGallery]

tic..tic..tic... BOOB! [I] Hmmmm,,, what will we be making next to make a living in glass.... You can thank a few Humboldt Blowers who were given a two week tour of the China Glass Sweat Shops for this little gift...

Count your chickens my friends.. The eggs in the nest are copies ....and won't hatch for ya.. but look real good just sitting there...

" ... Don't worry,,, Be Happy,,,)

[broken glass]

if you go to the website, and look at factory pics, it seems that at least one of the tourches is a GTT, last pic.

It would be interesting if someone inquired about pricing, wholesale only, 500 pipe order per style.

it seems that someone may have asked for a custom piece with horns and wigwags, and that is what is shown on gp.org, because those are not in their catalog. Just because a piece is well made does not make it nice!!! IMO they are shitty.......UGLY........im sure they will just copy nicer reball patterns in the future, and f up the market more than it allready is.

[kbinkster]

if you go to the website, and look at factory pics, it seems that at least one of the tourches is a GTT, last pic.

And your point?

http://img.ebigchina.com/cdimg/138310/1261200/0/1111734109.jpg

Is this the picture you're talking about? This is the last one on the "Factory View" page. Are you certain that is a GTT? And so what if it is? What does that mean? What are you implying?

[Dale M.]

You sure its not Wale FIREBIRD????

Dale

[Mr. Whale dick]

i like how the 1st pic of the factory is a truck w/ overseas shipping containers on it...


http://img.ebigchina.com/cdimg/138310/1004146/0/1091588577.jpg

[10FennyGlass]

im gonna be the devils advocate and say those peices were real ugly. i mean, its cool that china is makin some shit, and it looks kinda like our american shit, AND its prtetty original. BUT, colors played out and sloppy, the spikes are not even melted in the best. hopefully they dont pick this up or we'll all be screwed if they start importing cheaper headies

[broken glass]

it looks like the center fire on my phantom. to me.

I just thought it was interesting :ohwell:

I doubt willie and wallie sold it to em. I wonder who did

ya, the first pic was a classic!

[broken glass]

k bink, have you ever tried zoloft?

you need to CALM DOWN!!!! i did NOT IMPLY anything, you did

[WORLD FAMOUS]

Work harder, talk less = only solution to China problem.

"They are going to get really good... really fast... and sorry to say, but it's the sharing of info online that's going to help speed it up."

I strongly disagree. I think that's a very narrow minded statement if you are to look at the big picture. Stop sharing and nobody wins. China may lose out, but so do we. I'm not willing to give that up. Besides, why stop sharing info, when they can just buy videos or pay people to come out there and teach them everything in 4 weeks anyways. Then we really lose, and they just advance anyways. See my point? Sharing info is the only edge we have to compete, it will help us stay one step ahead.

I'd like to see China eventually have their own talented artists creating their own trends and styles instead of taking what we have and doing it for 1/20th of the price. A ChinaGP.org would be cool if there was actually a healthy scene there of thriving artists (not slave wage workers). I'd rather have quality competition than financial competition anyday because I won't sell out under a base price, where quality wars just makes you work harder to make nicer work. Who knows, maybe they can eventually teach us some new techniques. I'd love fly to China to learn how to make some new crazy technique instead of the other way around.

Just some food for thought...

[Mr. Smiley]

Nate... I didn't say we should stop sharing online... I just meant, they are reading and looking at all the glass work sites. I wouldn't want to give up the online glass community to keep secrets from them either. I've met a crap load of people, learned and shared lots. I'm not giving that up for the world. If it comes down to it, I'll find something else to do. I can move on to something else and stay a step or two ahead, but just as it has made it easier for a lot of people to learn faster, it is going to make it easier for the rest of the world too. Oh well... ;)

People are really kicking ass in Japan. I would love to go visit there and learn some of their soft glass bead techniques. They rock as individual artists! :D

[Mr. Whale dick]

japan's economy is too high to import glass shit here really.....

[skip]

and Japanese BUY American stuff in the Millions$$$$. They are so trendy. They HAVE to HAVE American Style. They pay 10 x mark up on our stuff. Snowboards go for like a $1000 there.

If there is a Balance in trade it is then not so one sided. China has no balance nor does India.

[kbinkster]

k bink, have you ever tried zoloft?

you need to CALM DOWN!!!! i did NOT IMPLY anything, you did

Well, it's just that you refer to a very blurry image and say that's it looks to be a GTT when just the tip is showing. I was just wondering why you would even bother to comment on it at all. I'm not all excited about anything, just curious. I'm sorry if my post came across as abrasive.

[SteppingRazor]

can someone verify this for me. I've been told that any imported good has to have a "made in" sticker on it. Well i rarely see these on glass pieaces. But i have seen a few made in india ones.
~jc

[Mr. Wonka]

It’s amazing how much disrespect that pipe is receiving because it was made in China. It may not be the best piece on the site, but it certainly isn’t the worst. If “John Smith” from Oregon made that pipe, most of you would be giving him a big pat on the back.

Does anybody remember the post on the old forum where there was an offer to go to China and teach them how to make glass dildos? So many people said they would do it in a heartbeat. There was no mention of slave labor or other humanitarian concerns… it was all about getting paid. BUT- when it comes to pipes, there’s a completely different attitude. Is it me, or is that a double standard?

How many people wanted to band together and by colored tubing dirt-cheap from China? Again, there was no mention of the conditions of the factory that it was made in, or the people who made it… it was all about the price. If you’re going to have such a strong opinion against a foreign worker or a foreign country in general, for God’s sake please be consistent.

If you look at the web site where that pipe is from, you’ll see some beautiful teapots. Was I the only one that noticed them? The designs are clean and well executed… not to mention a very useful and sellable product. How about using their design and putting your own spin on it? If Chinese glass workers suck that bad, then surely you can make something much nicer… right? If you do make something better / nicer, then subsequently it will sell for more money, making the “cheap import” factor a moot point.

[Joseph Corcoran]

Just to clarify where I stand on this issue...

I don't want to support the Chinese because they are going to take over the entire universe and start ww3.

:D

[Greymatter Glass]

Just buy their glass as fast as they can make it. Buy it all, you can't let any through. You have to corner the market. Then you can resell it here for whatever you can get for it, much more than standard keystone markup of 200%. If it's as high quality and good looking as stuff people here make, then the buyers wont be able to tell the difference. You can use the profits you make from that to support the glass blowers in the US who invest enough time and energy into makeing a product that can compete on the open market, and the whole worlds economy benefits, all the while making you and anyone involved whatever profit you feel is justified.

People looking for hand outs because their semi-skilled crafts artists are living in a day dream. Like evry other craft/trade in the world, this one requires training, and lots of it. An apprentice doesn't make much money at the begining, but once you get good (it can take years) you'll be less threatend by all this.

There's no free lunch, and a cheap one is getting harder and harder to find. American greed and consumerism are as much a part of the problem as is China willing to provide a cheap labor source at the exspensive of certain rights and privledges we take for granted here.

-Doug

[bc]

Tom, you make some point but are so clueless sometimes. I don't have the time to get into a lenthy reply why but would liek to say this. At times it seems you would love it if the pipe world would just die. Remember your roots brother. Most of time you post about pipes or pipemakers it's generally a put down. Sure you don't like some pipers attitude but hey, c'mon, stop with the bad vibes.

[IrieGuy05]

Werd, I notice that too...

[Julian]

I agree with Tom, I like their selection of teapots and drinking glasses.
I haven't seen anyone here selling such a nice looking, complete line such as that one. Prodo-ish but well executed, it appears. Neat design for the one person tea jobby.

They have a variety of smokeware on their website: it goes way beyond one semi-ganky spiked pipe. http://www.hrglass-teapot.com/sdp/138310/4/pl-1081934/0-542585.html .
500 piece minimum? i wonder what their prices are like. One question this leads to - is the govt going to do something about imports from companies like this? Or only shut down production shops in Eugene, resulting in production moving to China and leaving just as many pipes being available here?
As the article RAM linked to points out, Americans have to learn to go above and beyond rote work to compete with labor like that. Use your creativity to make your work worth more than just your labor. People aren't paying these Chinese guys for original ideas, or for the time they have spent building their names as artists.

PS Zoloft usually makes people more insane

[Orrza]

Hmm....
In the link above, Did you notice there is a logo VERY similar to the logo of "sundance"? :bounce

[Julian]

Wow... good eye, Orrza, it is very very similar to Sundance's logo.
http://www.artglass1.com/miscWEB/mainlogotitle.jpg <----- Sundance
http://img.ebigchina.com/hc.site/138310/res/site/logo.gif <---- Huari

Ha ha, maybe Sundance saw my Wetcanvas account ("hailing from Uzbekistan" ) http://www.artglass1.com/international-uzbekistan.htm

"Welcome Uzbekistan"

[skip]

Tom also lumps people into one category Like all of the people here wanted chinese color tubing in a bulk order. That was like 10 or 20 people. Your point kinda gets lossed when you do that. Like Brian I dont have the time no the patience, but dont lump all the god damn pipe makers togethor it only makes you look Stubborn (no offense)Tom.

[Julian]

http://www.hrglass-teapot.com/sdp/138310/4/pd-1081934/1310681-542583.html
Colour Glass Rods ,import from USA.
Will be added to the glass teapots and
glass bong,Such as handle.lid-ball and
colour mouth pour....

Why are they measuring this rod with a digital micrometer? Anyone? To show that they use manly 10 mil...?

[kbinkster]

Make that the even manlier 10.25mm!

[Mr. Wonka]

You guys are taking my views the wrong way- I have nothing against pipes at all. As a matter of fact, I still make them once and a while for friends and family. Since I make a variety of items for my store, I’m probably not as hyper-focused as some of you are when it comes to a particular item because it’s not my primary source of income.

At one time, pipes were a large part of my business when I had a store in a flea market. I also had competition from 2 other stores in the same building that sold cheap imports. I was faced with several choices- buy imports also so I could compete, lower my prices, or make a better product. I chose to make a better product and came up with unique designs that the other shops couldn’t get. I continually pushed the boundaries and made it a point to create new designs, which is what kept me ahead of the competition. I continue to do that today- I keep my eyes open for new markets so I don’t have to compete with what everyone else is doing, weather it’s foreign or domestic.

Again, I have nothing against pipes or the people who make them. When I talk about laws regarding pipes, it’s more for your own information and not because I want to take sides with the government. The law is so broad that the feds can make your life a living hell if they choose to do so and I don’t want to see that happen to anyone. In another thread somebody said that a guy in Portland has been to jail “more times than he can count” for selling pipes. I wouldn’t want to go to jail once, let alone more times than I could count.

[Chris Carlson]

hey!! i invented wrap n rake!!! what the hell? are these guys stealing my techniques?!!!!

[Mycotyrant]

I don't give two shits about glass pipes. I'm just a pothead that likes to burn shit.


But yes, very soon China will bury us with our own money, and we're all big stupid hyppocrites.

[steven p selchow]

As far as China's impact on me, its nil. Its practically impossibly time wise or market wise for the chinese glassblowers to make what I do, not to mention the nightmare of packaging and shipping, although I've seen first hand the ingeinious method of how delicate objects are packaged and shipped to arrive in the states undamaged an intact.

A few years ago I seen a larger influx of spun glass pieces being imported, of higher quality then even the old timers in Mexico, so they are givin it a go.

When you have large Chinese corporations manufacturing functional pieces, they may not be the one of a kind pieces you make, but their quality will soon be equal, unlike the India products.

We all want glass thats of the highest quality for the application we apply it to, no matter where its produced, and still I find american made companies supplying me, as its not a matter of whos cheaper, its what I make that dictates whose product I use.

[chayes]

They even carry color
http://www.hrglass-teapot.com/sdp/138310/4/pd-1081934/1411478-542584.htm

[harryhood]

hey arent these crackpipes?? http://www.hrglass-teapot.com/sdp/138310/4/pd-1081934/1371675-542585.html

[kbinkster]

Oh my stars! That's all we need now are for the Chinese to start making our crackpipes for us! What is this world coming to? It's bad enough that the imports have impacted as much as they have. Now, they are undermining our society by enabling destructive addictions at an affordable price! Bastards!

Hey, BTW, have you ever noticed that anything with a painted face on it that comes from China is rather ethno-centric?

[Orrza]

Wow, Wow guys...
Before you get funky hear me out... I read and speak VERY LITTLE chinese but I can tell you that this page offers AMERICAN made glass rods.
It's written black over white... MEI GUO - America... "美国" right after the 100% sign.
Funny...
Could it be somone is selling them american rods in a price that is worthy for us outsiders (from china) to order?

Peace,
Orr.

[Mr. Whale dick]

those really didn't look like american color to me.....(at a quick glance)

[David Sandidge]

We are all part of a profound synthesis of both east and west. After all, it was partly chinese science and technology that led to the westen industrial revolution. We should give them more credit.

[Glassy79]

On my last visit to Corning in New York, I noticed a group of around 12 to 15 being taken on a "INSIDE" tour of Corning. I asked one of my friends that works there about it. And he replied, Right now they are having us for lunch! I hate to say this but I also noticed the glass coming in from China is getting better and better.

I also have a couple of glass blowers friends that have had to close up shop, because they were working to pay expenses. In one shop my friend was paying $900. a month to keep his furnice going 24/7. The cost has gone up to over $2000. While the oil companys are rolling in the profits we are losing and china is winning. Who's to blame?

We often look to buy the cheapest. sell ourself's out for what ever. teach, teach, teach, because there in money to be made. And then bitch that we are not making any money. because this one is doing this or that.

Glass blowing, flame working is growing faster then you think. but how many will make it?

Not everyone is a Loren Stump, Emilio Santini, to name just two.

As for me? Well this is a very expensive hobby that I love dearly. So I'm not losing any sleep over it. But In all resept. I do feel for those of you out there doing this for a living.

I have met with a good many of you. And there are some very good artists out there. That is how I look at it! Art, not just a piece of glass that was blown or flame work!


Richard aka "Glassy79"

[Joseph Corcoran]

The only credit I give to the "sleeping giant" is that a communist country that tramples on every human freedom known to man, has somehow convinced the world, especially the US, that nearly every product and good can be made for pennies on the dollar there, and that is the best plan.

What has this led to?

1. More consolidation of wealth in US, as our local stores board up the doors to make way for Office Depot, and Wal-Mart. House prices went up 15% last year, but minimum wage hasn't gone up for years, so all the people that owned the stores, who now work at starbucks can't afford to buy a house.

2. The biggest cloud of pollutants known to man, which can be seen from space, blocking out the most of the sun hanging over Bejing.

3. China (A P.O.S. communist country) now has the US manufacture industry by the balls. Have you seen the plan by China to stop basing their dollar off ours. This could raise retail prices on most consumer goods by 50% overnight.

I could go on...

All I know is I hope you mothertruckers like Chinese food!

[kbinkster]

Never kid yourselves for a moment thinking that they want to have friendly relations with us. They want to take over the world. I'm not saying to not trade with them at all (unless that is what your conscience tells you), just to proceed with caution, extreme caution.

[chayes]

Here is some interesting reading.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/China-Factory-Injuries.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/23/news/economy/greenspan_china/
http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/14/business/chiip.html
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1780818
http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk/workers_rights.htm

[Orrza]

I hate to be that one guy who is swimming against the stream, but some of the sayings here are totally dangerous.
I am sorry for getting political here...

about 60 years ago, my grandmother and familly were accused to be trying to take over the world, generations over generations were educated of how jews are parasites who are just waiting for the right moment to do so.
We all know what happened as hate grew. I have, by the way, almost no familly left from my grandmother's side.

I personally know a couple of chinese who are only trying to feed their famillies and work deamn hard to do so.
Accusing chinese people in this conspiracy is silly, and wrong.
Please think again before making this kind of accusation....

Peace,
Orr.

[kbinkster]

I'm not referring to the people, but rather to the regime in power. I'm not advocating hating a people group.

[Orrza]

Hi.
I know you are sweet and didn't think you were... :)
It's just sometimes people tend to get carried away with declerations that others may interpet differently.

Peace,
Orr.

[David Sandidge]

If the Chinese government would fairly revalue their currency, the cost of their goods would increase. This would actually be a good thing for world market competition. It's really the WTO as well as Chinese government trade policies that have led the world to the state we're in now. I believe that the WTO has the responsibility to insure fair trade practices. Chinese factories are simply taking advantage of a situation that has been given to them as anyone would.

[Udai Hussien]

hey arent these crackpipes?? http://www.hrglass-teapot.com/sdp/138310/4/pd-1081934/1371675-542585.html


Ha!!! stems in china... do they even have cocaine there? I imagine they are opium vaporizers

[Joseph Corcoran]

Hey Orrza...

I think its actually been a few thousand years or more that people have been on the Jew's case.

I wasn't coming close to hating an ethnic group, I was simply pointing out the obvious fact that most people don't seem to grasp...

China is a communist country that is running out of land, resources, clean water, and clean air. They have the entire world economy by the balls. They are the #1 supplier of funds and "aid" to North Korea. Very soon China will want to get some new land that has somewhat fresh water and air.

This will not happen peacefully.

[jimb]

There is no easy answer and there is no fast answer as far as I'm concerned. People all over are just trying to do the same things: keep their families fed, keep them with a roof over their heads, and keep them healthy. The avrage salary of a person living in Shanghai is $3,000. Hard to imagine anyone living comfortably on that here. Especialyy when you consider that they work more than 8 hours per day, get no vacation, and essentially have no benefits. the company I work for is competing with the Chinese and has been for a number of years. When they start exporting, their quality is not great...but their prices are really cheap. As time goes by, their quality improvesa nd eventually, they are making the best stuff in the world. It may take time, but they have time to take. With very low labor rates, it is really hard to compete. For the products we make, they sell their product for very close to the raw material price. Chinese industry is looking at a long term answer not like American business who is looking at this afternoon and for whom long term means tomorrow. The oter thing to think about is if all of the workers make much less, the cost of anythin manufactured will be much cheaper too. If they batch glass, their cost of the glass will be less than the cost of our batched glass. Also their colors will be cheaper. Anything that takes some labor to make will be cheaper. In the end, their glass and colors are less expensive than our are. And their labor rate is tiny. And the Chinese governemnt gives them a 16% tax rebate for stuff they export. No way is the playing field level. Somehow, we have to learn to survive and can't give in. We have to find smaller, not obvious markets that can support the higher prices we need and want to charge.
On the other hand, I have been through a bunch of factories in China nad the people there are working hard. They are just trying to support their families. I've seen people sweep streets and I've seen major elevated freeways that are lined with planters with bushes and flowers in them. I've seen 40 or more 40 story buildings in massive appartment complexes being built. I've also seen water buffalo plowing fields. Nothing is simple.

Jim
jim