haha That's gotta be a shitty letter to have to write someone.
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haha That's gotta be a shitty letter to have to write someone.
Thanks Bulletproof - since I'm just a small time/hobby newb it's nice to hear a similar opinion from a longtime pro.
To rub salt on the wounds of this current experience with the four line items being out-of-stock, I suggested four replacements yesterday at 1pm and I did not hear back until mid-day today!!! When I did, one of the replacement items was also out of stock and just like I said, I've lost yet another day - this order should have shipped yesterday and I'm at my day job right now - I don't have time to call and talk for 15 minutes about what I want.
For a company so geared towards "just give us a call to make your order" they sure don't return the courtesy and call us when there is a problem. The one time Mountain ever was out of stock on me (and I've placed probably 10x as many orders with them as ABR), they called me twice in an hour AND sent an email - just to ensure they could straighten out the problem and meet the 2:30pm same-day shipping deadline. THAT is top-notch customer service, not what ABR is providing in my situation.
And just like Bulletproof said, this will probably be my last order from ABR at least for glass anyway. Mountain doesn't always have every tube size and color that I need but I'd rather drive two hours to go to Whale or US-Tube than deal with this headache again.
and just a little background to show I'm not a total dickhead.... this is sort of what I do for a living as my "day job".... I manage the IT dept for a industrial equipment distributor (sort of like Grainger) and I'm in charge of the entire sales system (purchasing, inventory, shipping, invoicing, E-Commerce with B2B and B2C) for a $100 million company so I know what is and what is not possible. We sell close to a million different items and stock close to 50,000 of them across nine warehouses in six states, we serve everyone from shops as small as some of your glass studios to the Pentagon, NSA and state governments and could NEVER survive or keep face with the type of short-stock problems like this. There is no technical-limitation that is an excuse for this problem, it's a business-level issue.
It was a girl too! It basically says "sorry, I'm the one who wrote poop on your stuff. We were joking around in the warehouse and it wasn't suppose to be used. Here's the smallest milli we have (a fish I think?) and some stickers."
I agree that ABR is my #1 glass supplier.
http://moviediablo.com/kaylila/upload/30/wso.jpg
You'll always attract more bees with honey. Venting about a problem you have with a company on a public forum will not solve your problem, nor will telling everyone what you do for a living. Maybe ABR just doesn't compare to your other dealings with the NSA, pentagon, or any other government acronym, but in the time it took you to write that post, you could have made the phone call and got your issue resolved.Quote:
Originally Posted by blueburnsorange
I have only heard of a handful of people who have had problems with ABR that didn't get resolved, and they have all posted in this thread.
My issue is resolved in that I think that after three rounds of "we don't have it", we're good but your echo of "you should just call" does re-enforce in my point...
This is a review thread, right? Is there a more appropriate place to talk about good or bad experiences? Have I made any low blows or cheap shots? Have I damned ABR as a company or said I was never going to use them for anything? No, just not for glass-orders because that seems to be the weak spot.
I'm just giving my experience and based on some of the other comments it looks like this is a sore spot for a few people not just me and has cost them business in the past, so why not talk about it? It's not a witch hunt or a boycott and if they can get that resolved, I'd happily place more orders.
Sorry you don't like what I do for a living but it is relevant to the topic at hand. It might not be a cheap or quick fix but this problem can be resolved.
I don't mind the criticism. When we make mistakes, we learn from them. Only way to get better. We do make them, but we always make our mistakes right. I will say that our guys are trained to call and email every time something is out of stock. I will remind everyone of this since you say they didn't do both this time. If you want to PM me your phone number, I can make sure we have the correct contact info on file for you. That happens sometimes too. Sometimes someone may have mis-keyed the number or we have an old one.
We really do a lot of volume here, and our guys are very busy during the day. They can't always get back to people right away. But, they do get back to you as quickly as they can. Sometimes a guy or gal will get tied up with a walk in customer for 2-3 hours. So, things happen. We can only hope for understanding in that respect. But, we also understand if you are frustrated. I'm not sure what glass was out of stock, but sometimes that is out of our hands. I just went over a Purchase Order we have with GA from 9 months ago that they haven't filled. I just had to cancel an order on a guy today because all he ordered was Grape Tubing, which we have been waiting on for a year. Several tubing sizes are the same way. We certainly have had it on order if we are out of it. So, this stuff happens for a multitude of reasons. We have no reason not to do all we can to keep stuff in stock, or fill anyone's order as quickly as possible. We have a great auto reorder system that doesn't let us not have things on order we are low or out of. I'd be willing to bet we have the most extensive on hand inventory in the lampwork biz. So, we really do our best to service everyone best we can. We do that everyday. When stuff gets screwy, we always strive to make it right also. So, thanks for the good, the bad, and the ugly. It all either makes us smile, or makes us work harder to do better.
Thanks
Dave
I'm also always willing to deal with issues here or anywhere, whereas other companies flat out will not deal with it here in the public forum. So, if anyone ever has an issue, you know where to find me. I monitor our activity here pretty much daily.
Dave's "best price" on most glass is great, i am co localand cant get glasscraft to match any of your prices, they try but they only ever get "close" and wont actually meet them.and whenever youbuy bulk dave hooksit up with a nice discount that beats out everyone else i've used.. generally even after shipping/freight
This is a relatively small community, people build relationships with suppliers. If you can't take fifteen minutes out of the day to call, t's only going to hurt your bottom line. It's not like ABR is some under staffed big box store.
Can't beat the prices or service.
Dave, thanks for looking into it.
I do have my phone number listed on my account but my order shipped late yesterday and it was never my intention to try to deal with my specific order publicly via this thread. I was only using it to provide review of the experience, please don't think I'm looking for discounts or freebies by saying what I'm saying. I haven't asked for any here nor in my emails to the CSR.
I agree 100% that you have the most extensive selection of glass out of all the online retailers - that's why I would like to go to ABR first, that's not the issue.
My issue is that you say "we have a great auto reorder system that doesn't let us not have things on order we are low or out of"... but you ran out of things listed on the website three times on me since Friday and several other times since November (my first ABR order).
I do know what it's like to be at the mercy of vendor shipping delays and how they can affect lead times regardless of your ordering method (EOQ,min/max, human, etc...) but like I said originally, running out of stock happens, it's not my beef. My problem is that website consistently shows stuff as available and allows us to pay for stuff when it really isn't there.
Wow, thanks for bringing that to our attention. The website is supposed to deliver a red text message at the bottom of our screen notifying you that is low or out of stock. I've emailed our web people to get that fixed.
I'm glad it can be resolved easily!
WOW you're shipping must've stunk back then. I ordered something on Thursday and asked if it can be shipped as soon as possible, it just shipped today TuesdayQuote:
Originally Posted by daveabr
I've had no problems with ABR but I did just need to order color and went with MT Glass. I absolutely hate paying to join a color club and that was the only way to get a discount with ABR. MT Glass gives discounts with quantity lb orders. I order over 5lbs and got 20% off and they shipped it that day. Have to say same day shipping and no color club was a win for MT Glass...
rule of thumb for me....if i NEED an item within a certain time frame, i'll use mtn glass they ship same day (if ordered before 1pm) but if i have time i'll shop around for the best price....which may or may not be abr.
standard28......We offer discounts for bulk orders everyday. Color club is for the folks who order 2-3 lbs at at a time or less, and still usually way than more pays itself back in a year. Always ask when ordering in bulk, we are happy to work with you.
olddog......not sure what the issue was, but if you 'd like to PM me or call with your name/order# I'd be happy to look into it. we are running same or next day right now, have been for weeks, since after the holidays. sometimes we get hammered and are a day or so behind. but there's usually something else involved if it takes a few days.
Also, we do orders in the order they come in. We always ship "soon as possible" If you pay for overnite, 2 days, or 3 day express shipping, you go straight to the front. Other than that, we have to be fair, we can't ship soon as possible over other orders just because someone asks. Fair is fair.
Also, the red lettered low inventory warnings are back and functional on the site. Somehow the setting had gotten turned off.
Dave,
Rush/priority orders aside, committing to an "orders before (certain time) will ship same-day" policy like Mountain has would go a long way to reassure people vs "asap". Is something like that possible for ABR?
We do far more volume, and just can't guarantee it. We get 100 orders a day sometimes. I'd love to, but we carry far more inventory, and thus service a much more expansive amount of the industry. It's a bit different for us. What we can do is continue to offer the biggest inventory out there, and almost always the best prices. I will also continue to be an accessible resource inside of a supplier for everyone here. Like I said, a lot of times, it is same day, but we can't pigeon hole ourselves into guaranteeing it. Also, we couldn't do the massive sales that run for 2 weeks at a time instead of 2 days, and keep up if we guaranteed same day everyday.
Thanks to everyone for the kind rep/messages. It's stuff like that which keeps me posting the exclusive tubing, and TMP only deals all the time. It would be much easier to call 3 or 4 people and they'd buy it all every time. But, this place is special in it's own way, and I hope I treat it that way. Proven time and time again by the kindness reciprocated to me here. So, thanks!
Are you guys out of .999 silver? Because it somehow never made it in the box of glass I just ordered. Last time that happened you guy were all out of the milli my customers loved. Well I paid for it and I never got it. Can you hook me up with some silver?
ABR is the best! They always fix the problem if there is one. I would order more stuff if I could.
ABR has REALLY stepped up their game on delivery -- Great job!
I dropped the ball on getting Dave the address for his TMP auction donation, and when I did he offered to send it out overnight or 2 day. Lucky for me, the buyer didn't need it right away and was ok with ground, but it showed up on a 2 day time frame anyway! Thanks Dave for getting it out so fast and helping me make it right. :D
I've always had good service from ABR. Never have any shipping issues anymore, haven't in quite a long time, however when there was, the problem was remedied efficiently. I order pretty much all of my glass from them. Tools as well, although I also get tools from Mountain.
I have used them three times. Had a problem every time and always was the "new guys fault", and "do you now how many orders we do a day?" or flat out not told the truth to CTA. Has cost me wasted money every time
Have used mountain MANY times (and others). NEVER A PROBLEM.
I order everything from abr from my torch to most of my glass. Except I buy 25.4 mm heavy wall corning pyrex from wale. Saves me time and money on shipping. I also ordered my kiln from trevsglass because it is am AIM. But other then that I buy everything from abr. I bought my metal tools from The Studio in the Corning Museum of glass. I have used ABR exclusively in the past though.
I've used them a few times and I've had a different problem every time. This last time I ordered a case of 44 and when it got to me it was VERY messed up. I know this is probably not only on them but the shipping company as well but when I've ordered through other companies my glass has never arrived like that.
Another time my shop mate and I ordered a bunch of different things and colors and they charged the card and sent everything out, we were charged less than what we were told but that was because they were back ordered on almost a third of the colors we were trying to buy, we ordered through the phone not online. the issue was we weren't notified of it and when we got the package and did our inventory we had to figure it out ourselves and then call to confirm. And we would've just bought other colors or tools since we were already paying for the shipping. When I've ordered through other companies I was both emailed and called when something was back ordered.
Abr has a great selection, nice and helpful staff, awesome sales, and things other companies don't, I just always second guess when I order if I want to have simple things like this happen.
It does suck that things get back ordered from abr. But there is a thing on the shopping cart that tells you so. I just don't order it if it is out of stock. They did fuck up my milli for a wile. There was an issue with if I was getting billed or not. It was very confusing. But Dave recommended that I go to the source, the milli maker. So I found the guys he mentioned and now I am fine with the milli.
Other then the milli issue I never have problem with them.
There catalog is bigger then everyone's too. I like ordering a variety of things from abr. They carry a lot of stuff. But no Corning and no AIM.
I also might feel good about ABR because after complaining a little bit they sent me a new 1/2 oz of .999 silver beads for free after the last issue I had with not being able to find the silver in the box they sent me. Plus I got a holiday card from them. So I am really happy with ABR right now.
I ordered on the phone so there wasn't a shopping cart to tell me things were back ordered, my issue isn't with things being back ordered I understand that it happens the issue is not getting an email or phone call and us just having to figure it out. We both thought well damn if they would've called or told us before shipping we would've just gotten other colors or tools and they would've gotten our money lol.
I only use the website now. I got there catalog. It is huge. I don't really call anyone anymore. It is all website stuff now. I can't keep all the catalogs anymore. Using the internet is way easier.
i vowed years ago to never buy from ABR again, but i broke down and got a couple pounds of pink slyme one time, and it came pretty fast. I will only shop ABR if i really need something and no one else has it.
I like em. I only live two hours away . I can't belive I have not just drove over. One of these days
Great experience with ABR this week - my kiln died on Sunday and I ordered an F-120 from another company on Sunday night but their inventory was wrong and they were actually out of stock and Paragon is on backorder until med-Feb. :bangHead:
I called ABR early Monday... I don't think you guys were even open yet but someone (James?) answered, physically went to go check stock for me, called me right back to tell me I'm getting the last one on the shelf. It was on the freight truck and out the door, same day! Great customer service!
I think it will probably show up tomorrow, can't wait to get started with it!
I appreciate all the feedback as always guys. I think our ship times have really gotten quicker. We are same day on most in stock orders. Back ordering sucks, but is something we can't always do a lot about. One thing about carrying a lot of items like we do, is things do go out of stock. It's not just tools either, frit and color rod has been in short supply lately for a lot of certain colors. The industry is growing rapidly, and manufacturers are still catching up as well. We have things back ordered from our vendors all the time. When we don't have it in stock, it's not because we haven't ordered it from our vendor. It's a constant struggle, so we understand the frustration over back orders. But, like was mentioned above, the shopping cart does display a message if something is low or out of stock. So, that can be helpful if ordering online.
It's good to see most of the negative here is from folks in the past. I think we do a good job getting things right if they go wrong these days. Seth in our office is super helpful if you ever have a problem. Of course you guys here are ALWAYS welcome to contact me directly. If you are a reasonable person, or even if you're the guy that calls up F bombing, we can get through about any issue I could imagine. You guys make it happen, and we thank you very much!
I love ABR. I am buying all my glass from them now. I still buy milli from artists and I like to get stuff off this site. But for the most part I have been able to just wait for sales at abr. I have been buying 100 lbs of Asian clear at a time for 40% off. It is basically free shipping for me though.