glass alchemy changes

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Originally Posted by BoRo

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

Thing is, it's a big list.

When they drop new color... you have 5-10 mins from the time you get the email, till the color sells out.
Yes, if your ready , you get a grip of said color. (Sometimes sells out in less than 5 mins)

I have not read into the 5000 thing, I don't know if it even affects the "list"

If your not on your toes , it's still gone fast as f#*$

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I haven't been able to get any hype color, but knowing this the membership sounds like a joke, i use 5k of color ever 3-4 years of all color companies including independent producers, so even if i get a GA 5k GAMA membership, theres no guarantee that you will be able to get the color you want let alone hype color, so someone like myself or most smaller artists, could scrimp and save and get the membership after years of waiting just to have it be worthless when you cant get what you want, then what? you wait another 2-3 years maybe longer and try again?

Its like being loyal for nothing, and to reach the 5k buy in they basically want to screw ya with micro transactions and only purchase their color, i hate paying shipping and it adds up so there is no incentive for me to buy a pound of color at a time, let alone if its not firsts or what I want, when other companies may have a similar choices.

Ill continue to buy their color regardless so if that is the only means of getting what i need so be it, if i can get ROY cads then ill be content, its just silly since we all know once the ventilation upgrades are done they could produce as much "hype" or whatever color they wanted if the raw materials are available, so it just seems like a way of driving up prices and creating artificial hype to corner the market. Making ROY Cads, "Hype" seems like a selfish move that only benefits them.

As for hooking up big name artists, it makes perfect sense, since the pieces they make are amazing, and when GA can say that it was solely made from their color its a great boost for their color, since people are going to want to use the same colors in their work.

I barely post and ain't glass famous, so why would they want to hook up me, or any smaller artist that doesn't have a 10k+ following? There is little incentive on their part, regardless of if these smaller artists have supported them for years.

I mean go read what Shelbo blogged about the GAMA, it doesn't make any sense, if people are already having trouble getting color that isnt hype let alone the hype colors, how is limiting access to buy color by an arbitrary purchase limit, going to help artists?

"No hassle, no confusion, just direct access and discounts on Glass Alchemy colors." Well ya if ya buy 5k, you might be able to buy or participate in the color rat race, hoping you might score a pound of what you want.

As for screwing the distributors that have supported them for years, it seems foolish since its easier to burn a bridge then to build one.

I love GA's color and hope to continue to use it, but the new membership seems to have made it harder to get what id like then easier.

Just to clarify... when I say "the list is big" I'm talking about the #of people on that list.

Not the amount of color. It's usually one or two colors at a time.

When serium first dropped , they said it sold out in 10mins... it was more like 3 mins.

looks like glasscraft is ditching GA because of this new direct to customer sales model.

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Originally Posted by Shattered Dreams

looks like glasscraft is ditching GA because of this new direct to customer sales model.

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fact.... although i was in glasscraft over the weekend and they appear to be dropping EVERYTHING.... i left with almost nothing because they have no stock. tools. clear. color. was told there is no order on the horizon. which sucks. i live 20 min :( this is the colorado store. unclear about the eugene

Eugene store fully stocked as of yesterday, aside from GA which they are not reordering.

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Originally Posted by PyroChixRock

Eugene store fully stocked as of yesterday, aside from GA which they are not reordering.

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so jealous misha! seriously simax was empty and the tool selection which is always a bit weak was pretty bare.

im sure itll come back eventually.

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Originally Posted by BoRo

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

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Grammar nazi alert - feel free to ignore me. I don't at all mean to pick on people - but I thought of this while driving home and thought maybe someone will find it amusing.

See, we've all heard of to, too and two, and there their and they're. Here we have the lesser known axis, access, axes, excess, ex's and x's.
axis - a line of rotation
access - the ability to get something
axes - things for chopping wood
excess - too much
ex's - people who don't have sex with you anymore. (Or maybe they do - but then its more of an "its complicated" than an ex, least in my book.)
x's - more than one of the letter x.

In terms of the actual topic of discussion... bummer. On one hand, its by definition their job to exploit their market position, on the other, its their job to make it not obvious and ugly seeming that they're exploiting their market position. As a still prettymuch noob hobbyist who started with GA colors, if only because their color chart was cooler at the time, I'll probably keep ordering my tiny bits of GA color as long as MGA keeps stocking them.

There's that "no press is bad press idea" - and clearly there's something to that at very large scale. The question is - is the glass community at that scale? The way most people seem to talk on here, there's an implied "no", but the fact that I'm even a participant (I took a class somewhat randomly and went "whoah! cool!") seems to imply that the answer is "maybe". Personally, I really don't know much about the glass business, so I have no idea - but the messaging seems to be that its still growing quickly.

As a business that does both wholesale and retail, I can tell you based on experience that being full wholesale only and transitioning to wholesale/retail to perhaps full retail only, is a nearly impossible marketing task. There is no way any business is going to make that transition without even a small amount of tarnish to the brand luster. And done badly, it's a good way to destroy your brand and your business.

The most successful way is communication. Warn the distributors first, give them time to digest the notice. Get input from them. Come up with a plan that everyone can agree on (even if reluctantly). Roll it out a couple of months later. Fine tune as needed. That's just plain Marketing 101.

The way this was done, especially in light of the Great Cad Scarcity of 2016, makes me think that the motivating force here was not broadening their customer base (they already had a good chunk of the market albeit indirectly). No, this smacks of pure greed.

If you are a wholesale company, the first rule of wholesale is that you don't compete with your customers. Nothing will piss off a purchasing agent faster than finding out one of your vendor suppliers is going to start selling direct to the end user, cutting his/her company out of the market loop. And in a closely knit community as the glassworking world is, the word is going to get around pretty fast.

The second rule is: treat all your customers the same. Certainly, you can offer discounts based on volume, that's just business. But when you set up a program that on its face looks like favoritism, that's going to create bad feelings. Then, when you double down and offer 'low volume special colors' only to those in the program, that's a nail in the coffin lid. If you are going to make something "special" or experimental or new, I certainly understand offering it to a small amount of testers. But don't hype it. Don't sell it out in 3 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Mike_Aurelius

As a business that does both wholesale and retail, I can tell you based on experience that being full wholesale only and transitioning to wholesale/retail to perhaps full retail only, is a nearly impossible marketing task. There is no way any business is going to make that transition without even a small amount of tarnish to the brand luster. And done badly, it's a good way to destroy your brand and your business.

The most successful way is communication. Warn the distributors first, give them time to digest the notice. Get input from them. Come up with a plan that everyone can agree on (even if reluctantly). Roll it out a couple of months later. Fine tune as needed. That's just plain Marketing 101.

The way this was done, especially in light of the Great Cad Scarcity of 2016, makes me think that the motivating force here was not broadening their customer base (they already had a good chunk of the market albeit indirectly). No, this smacks of pure greed.

If you are a wholesale company, the first rule of wholesale is that you don't compete with your customers. Nothing will piss off a purchasing agent faster than finding out one of your vendor suppliers is going to start selling direct to the end user, cutting his/her company out of the market loop. And in a closely knit community as the glassworking world is, the word is going to get around pretty fast.

The second rule is: treat all your customers the same. Certainly, you can offer discounts based on volume, that's just business. But when you set up a program that on its face looks like favoritism, that's going to create bad feelings. Then, when you double down and offer 'low volume special colors' only to those in the program, that's a nail in the coffin lid. If you are going to make something "special" or experimental or new, I certainly understand offering it to a small amount of testers. But don't hype it. Don't sell it out in 3 minutes.

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well said mike.

If I recall correctly, Glasscraft was trying to sell itself lock stock and barrel, so there may be more than just GA shenanigans and cad mayhem at play there.

Went back yesterday and they were still out of most clear

Yinzer does make some good points, as does Mike. I'm not sure if you realize this Mike...but they aren't just coming into retail, GA has done retail for years. As far as their prices....it was $28 a pound for Occasional quality for a long time, and then the prices went up to 30-40. At that point, i stopped buying from them. I would buy during the sales, but the last two sales (not the one that just happened) didn't reduce the prices much, so i didn't buy. I also only buy occasional quality from them, never firsts. Given this....I don't know of ANY distributors that offer occasional quality, are there any? Obviously I can't get occasional quality +30% off from a distributor if they don't have occasional quality. This alone makes the new model useful for me, because occasional quality went from being prohibitively expensive (why not buy NS odds for the same price of GA OK is $40?), to being affordable again. Also, the weekly sales allowed me to buy 7lbs of Jackpot for $140. The rods i got were nearly first quality. I've counted 4 stones and half a stick of air out of the 7 pounds, the rods aren't even tapered. Essentially, GA hasn't effected a single dollar i would have spent at a distributor, because no distros sell the GA stuff that i buy. I think this is true for a lot of people, especially when the quality has been good. Also, distros generally charge $100 a year to get the 30% discount that GA gives you just for signing up for an account.

I've bought maybe 500lbs of various color from them over the years, and only ~10lbs of it was closer to 2nds that 1sts (I had 3lbs of tequila sunrise that was FULL of air, a few pounds of Starry night that was so saturated it was opaque (but still sparkled and stuff) which was disappointing, and i had a batch of jamboree that was so saturated it was black....the rest has been closer to odds than seconds, and i have been sent firsts at least once of what was supposed to be OK quality hype color, which was, and was marked as firsts...not sure why?) My point is all of this is that i've had REALLY good luck with the OK quality, and the quality i got right before the sale and during this sale was very very very close to firsts....so my perception is that the quality is good/is on the rise.

Despite buying this much color from them...it's all Occasional, and i buy once a year (with the weekly sale maybe changing that, depending on the colors selected), I would not make the 5000 a year cut, not even close. However....whoever said above that they were under the impression that the points reset, you are incorrect, because that is not true. I had one employee of one well known distributor tell me that their employer said GA was "beginning to start selling retail" which led to them having some choice words about GA....but that wasn't true either, as they have sold direct for some time.

I'm also a fan of the hype color limits....I have never successfully gotten serum, tonic, antidote, or potion, until this last sale. I got 2lbs of Tonic for $90. The huge problem was that people are buying and reselling the color. If you would only use a pound...so you buy a pound, it's whatever. If you only want to use a pound, so you buy 20 lbs, because it can be resold....this increases the issues mentioned by people above who said they knew if they want hype color that they'd be buying it from another
glassblower at a premium. GA then put up 2lb ordering limits on Hype color...so the flippers would have people buy for them, and still get enough to resell. Then they did the email list thing, and it still happened. That i know of, no distributor limits how much hype color you can buy at full retail.....so that also encourages people to flip color. if distributors put a 2lb limit in place for example, people will still have multiple friends show up to buy the color for them. Hype colors are still listed on the site, visible to people with as little as 100 points...so i suspect when there are drops you won't have to be on the list to get them. It seems to me that this will make more hype color available to more people, although the flippers and artists who make solid hype color pieces will be disrupted by this.

I can see why people who live by distributors are upset...but I don't, so I have to have everything shipped. I've bought color from Glasscraft a handfull of times (and actually just helped sell over $5000 in glass that was NS, sold to Glasscraft). Any time i have purchased from Glasscraft, it has shipped from Eugene without exception. As far as the NS color i helped sell....some of it was given at a discount because there were tapered tubes and tubes with air or stones that were occasionally listed as firsts....had i just ordered a pound of tubing, and gotten certain ones without a proper discount...I'd of been upset, so as far as quality, I've had small issues with everyone here and there.

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I'm not sure if you realize this Mike...but they aren't just coming into retail, GA has done retail for years.

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True...but it wasn't a big part of their "sales model", and it usually wasn't firsts and main line products.

i did save $30 on an $80 order, so i can't complain. i guess i should look at it this way...i don't much use or like most of the hype colors. for the bread and butter colors of theirs that i use, this may work out ok.

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Originally Posted by Jackass Glass

Went back yesterday and they were still out of most clear

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I just placed an order an asked if the golden location is closing, they said no, idk what is going on.

I was finally able to get a pound of Trautman knockoff serum from MGA so ill see what the hypes about, I do find it ironic that NS and Traut, have their versions of it already on the market, which just makes me wonder if all the transparent and hype cfl colors will just get knocked off in the long run with minor formula changes. As well as improved cads.
Id would prefer to get the real deal serum, not that it really matters cause all three look the same, but im not going to pay more then what GA sells it for and have never seen it for sale or been able to buy it through GA not that im GAMA so i doubt i would

Some of the test shades the yellow and oranges hues as well as the ketchup and oj looked cool on their site but there all sold out, and i got no notification they were up there but if you want Portland gray or brilliant blue they got ya. I guess thats what really gets me, i get notified of junk they dont even want but something that i might be interested in you gotta be constantly checking the site and then hope you can score a pound before it sells out in 5mins who has time for that let alone the aggravation.

Dont they understand cads are what were short all last year, i got blues and greens as well as strikers, i need cads and hype colors, and again like i already stated what am i supposed todo buy 5k of aqua azul to score a few pounds of red orange and yellow?

I dont want special treatment just a chance to get these colors when they are released, not to find out a week later after there sold out.

Im already getting annoyed thinking about running out of red orange and yellow later this year and not being able to get replacement color, i mostly do linework but being limited in your color choices is lame and constricts creativity, obviously one should strive to overcome this in their work but still.

greasy has serum variants as well, (nice and air free fwiw)

im sooooo pumped that tag has a serum style coming.... i got two lbs coming. i have a little shy a lb of serum left. will compare for funsies.

Im a huge tag fan. I personally think they make the best and consistent glass. I just scored an lb of the new Fade to Black and the Atomic Stardust!

majority of what i use most days is tag. with some NS and GA... and a bunch of smaller guys like east koast raw. I went out of my way to support them when they started and now have like 8-9 lbs of their flavors.

Anyway dont mean to take this off topic from the GA - since i started it ahhaha. but YASSSSSSS TAG!

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

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Originally Posted by MUPH

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

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I dont plan on it id like to keep buying their color, but i feel like they are forcing me to not buy their color due to the lack of notification and availability of color, i would have been happy to spend that same money i spent on knock off serum on the real deal if i could get it from GA at a fair price. But by not having these colors available they subsequently are forcing me to go to another color maker to get color.

I have literally been waiting a year to get some serum or since whenever the shit came out.

I dont mind waiting a few weeks for something to be available, but not knowing if its going to be available let alone if your gonna be able to buy some before it sells out, but if NS and Traut have something comparable on the market and its instock its kinda a no brainer to go with the later companies,then gambling on a pound of color from GA.

That doesnt mean that the NS or Traut aint gonna sell out quick either though so if you wait you might get screwed by GA, but by also waiting and giving GA a chance to get you color you might screw yourself cause the other companies color will sell out fast and you could end up with nothing from GA. Thus nothing from all 3 companies and you get to wait again.


Greasys stuff is alright, i have seen some people complaining about quality lately though. What ive used in the past has been nice. Its worth checking out again
I think hand of man tubing has a CFL tubing that is serum or knock of serum based but ive yet to use it.

Yea i know this thread is supposed tobe about GA, it is worth mentioning other companies though, given the situation i described above.

It seems regardless of if you want to support them or not there is no guarantee you'll get the color you need, thus making it hard to support them unless your just gonna buy the basic color line, which only will get you so far since there are no cads in that color line anymore. I have money i want to spend on GA color but, i dont need the basic colors like ive stated, i need cads and hype which aren't available so what am i todo, i cant wait forever and let my business tank when there are replacement colors around.

I just wanted to say also GA i love your color, i want to continue to use your color and support your business, but somethings gotta give how can you really expect small time artists to support you with the way things are going? I shouldnt have to see an IG post of someones new color to know about new limited colors on your site just to rush on there to see its all gone.

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Originally Posted by MUPH

With all this being said...

Is there anyone here who is actually going to stop buying their color aside from some distributors?

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when i can avoid it... meaning if another company makes a sim color, ill buy that one. even at a premium. I dont like what they did to the distribs, but frankly thats easy for me to say/do. i dont use much glass compared to the guys who do this for real... so i can easily sit up on my high tower and it wont cost me a lot.

Clearly the distributor view point is that we have literally spent millions with a company over the last 17 or so years. Then all the stuff that actually drives sales and profit (hype colors) is taken away from us, and we are left with the "classic line" it makes you feel a bit screwed over. The classic line is great and all, but we aren't ever stocked in an ample way with those colors either. It's a classic bite the hand that feeds you situation, and when your the one who gets bit in that situation, it stings. We have heard nothing but upset people when calling about GA colors. It's been going on for a couple years really. Every time someone orders GA that isn't in stock (which is most things, not just hype) our job here at ABR is to find a suitable substitution for that color. Someone orders Twilight, we are out, we offer Berry Gumboldt. Customer buys it, learns to love that color, then reorders it in the future instead of Twilight. We don't want to lose a sale just because a color we ordered 6 months to a year ago isn't in stock yet, so we sub NS, TAG, Momka, whatever line has a suitable replacement.

So, as distributors drop the line, people will be weened off the GA color over time in my opinion. Distributors are going to try even harder to sub customers out for other lines if they are feeling hosed as well. So, we will see how it plays out. I feel the manufacturers who support the long standing network of distributors will win out in the long run.

Totally agree with Dave.. It has been a couple of years that we haven't been able to get a complete
order and often it was half. (So she says you don't buy enough) How can you when they run the company like this.
so the shelves of GA at Trev's Glass are pretty empty. Loved the way the parents ran the company..
Jason Lee put something up on facebook a week or so ago it reached over 500 responses. Was amazing to me
to see how many people were upset at them. That is a lot of lost business.

I dont know Dave. I love good color, and have tried most peoples. I love Glass Alchemy Eclipse, and pretty much all their crayons are easier to work than most others. I prefer to stock their crayon colors if I can. I have red from Northstar that is probably 6 years old sitting at the bottom of a red section i'd rather not use. The cad colors red orange and yellow seem less boily. GA may be making a bad marketing decision, but I do think they make a lot of great color.

Kind of like when abr started selling glasstique's on ebay, and screwing Glass alchemy on what was a great test program for artists?

FYI The Neocad orange and red are on their website as of this post

as well as occasional quality serum

im sure it will sell out fast so if your looking to try these colors get them before they go

What is the Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance?

The Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance (GAMA) is the top tier of the Glass Alchemy Rewards Program. When you join the Program you automatically become an Alchemy Insider and begin earning points towards GAMA membership. Once you accumulate the required number of points, you can redeem them for a 12 month Glass Alchemy Makers Alliance membership. The Makers Alliance is where the magic happens: early access to Small Batch colors and additional discounts on color.

FROM THEIR WEBSITE https://glassalchemy.com/pages/glass-alchemy-rewards

it's the fuckboi's hype club.

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Originally Posted by istandalone24/7

it's the fuckboi's hype club.

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im dead... lmao


seriously tho. it is potentially the most narcissistic creation since facebook. I really do think its great that the color companies take into account peoples views on their color... then again they would just be shitty business people if they didnt. And if these artists go out of their way to use and figure out things then props to them, but i don't want to hear about it. i know these guys exist and are amazing, many give me inspiration all the time. i don't need GA to create a hall of fame so we can all collectively go ...... oh wowowowowowowowow.....

i do have to say, i ordered a few lbs of frit and oc quality rods, and was very pleasantly surprised at the quality of the o/c (i know 2015's o/c sale was almost complete shit...based on what i rec'd and that of a few others) and the discount. granted, i saved a whole $30 over full retail, but still that was nice.
i do intend to keep buying o/c rods, and if at some point i can get my mitts on some of the hype colors, i'll try them.

it took me a couple years to bother trying illuminati (i know it's a NS product, but this is a "for instance")...and now that i have, all other uv colors seem to fall short.

I've certainly seen a lot more negativity towards GA than positivity during this whole ordeal. I think they have some good ideas but it wasn't handled very well - especially for this particular customer base (glassblowing community).

I don't see what the GAMA brings to the table for me, as a glassblower. What I understand is that there are a group of privileged glassblowers who get free access to all the best deals they have to offer. I wouldn't even be surprised if they get given free glass to make pieces with. The publicity for GA is more than worth it I'm sure. I try not to feel jealous because there is truly no point (and I don't deserve free stuff), but honestly what other feeling are they trying to invoke?

For me getting all my glass in one place is really important because I'm in Canada, and shipping from the US can be extremely expensive. It almost always costs more than $100 USD to get a box of glass shipped to me, whether it is 5, 10 or 20 lbs. It changes how I need to maintain my inventory - it is in my best interest to stockpile large quantities rather than buying random pounds here and there.

Anyway what they do is up to them, I'm just looking forward to when the cad scare is long behind us and the market is flooded with all the colours we can't get our hands on right now.

Its like the trump presidency, i hate it, but im not going to renounce my U.S. citizenship and move overseas because i love this country; just not the actions and choices of the government.

I dont agree with or like GA's changes but i will continue to use their color because i really like their color and it works well, and is high quality most of the time*.
"*Except for the first quality bundle of eclipse im using right now has so much air in it is kinda insane for firsts"

I just want to try some of these "hype" colors and that is why i made that post yesterday because i figured there are others like me wanted to do the same.

If it turns out the Neo cads are shit, and the OC serum i ordered is garbage then i wont need to get anymore, but with the limited availability and high demand i just want a chance to get these colors and try them.

Over the next year all the hype for the older hype colors will die down as more new hype shit comes out, so the older colors should become more available, also if your like me and only use certain colors at certain times a few pounds will last years, im still using ROY, from 2014-15. So once the big buyers stock up, the smaller people such as myself will be able to attain these colors easier

At the vary least they should eat the shipping costs, when im paying 65 bucks a pound and gotta spend 5k to get a discount, then again if you know what your doing its easy to make a profit at that price, the color i dont understand how people use is the 150-200 plus triple layered tubes and whatnot.

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What I understand is that there are a group of privileged glassblowers who get free access to all the best deals they have to offer. I wouldn't even be surprised if they get given free glass to make pieces with

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i've been told by more than a few people that the "big dogs" do in fact get materials for free. that they can cherry pick, and what we get as 1st quality is actually closer to odds.
idk how true that is, but again i've heard it in more than one place.

Chartruese and olive crayon FTW, but I dont really give a shi about their other colors.

unless I get those colors second hand, I may never have them again

I don't really support GA. Those medium is for everyone, if you are going to hand pick who gets the shit then good start a private club. Northstar is my go to. Their philosophy and the way they treat the community as a whole is leaps and bounds ahead of GA. But seriously all this aside this is a medium like anything else. Get what you need for your work and that's it

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

I need some cherrywood strike 70 grade frit.

I dont care what they do, or how they sell their color. Just make sure that all the colors are still available.