Printable View
Hey all! I'm looking into purchasing an EX2000 oxygen filler and I'm wondering if anyone out there has one? just looking for some basic info;
1.do you run 24/7?
2.how long have you been using the EX2000?
3. have you had any problems?
4. if you have had any problems did the 3 yr warranty work for you?
and of course any additional information good or bad (i.e. who has the best deal) would be greatly appreciated. ty!
My math:
At a 100% duty cycle, pulling 308W it would cost around $0.60-1.00 per day, depending on where you live, to run the pump.
To make the oxygen for the pump an EX-15 oxygen generator is running while it's on as well.... At 600W you can figure roughly double the compressors cost...
So in theory the max you'd spend on the power would be between $1.80 to $3.00 a day.
now the EX15 can make approx 400 cubic feet of oxygen per 24 hour period, and the EX2000 fills a "K" tank in 24 hours.
So that means a "K" tank for around $3.00 each.
Not a bad deal.
The only 2 caveats I can see are minor....
The oxygen is not as pure, 90-95% depending on elevation.... that means less heat. Does it make much difference? I don't want to do the math, but I image it's not a deal breaker.... For example you might spend 5% more time heating the glass, which equates to 5% more propane as well...
Also, a "K" tank denotes a size which when fully filled are supposed to have about 255 cubic feet of oxygen in them (2200 psi) The EX2000 fills to 2000 psi. Again, I don't want to do the math, but probably around 20 cu ft less...
So factor in the intangible cost of time and you're looking at what, maybe $5-6 per K tank?
So if you can't get liquid oxygen it's worth it for sure. If you pay $20 now for a K tank then it's got a pay off of around 250 tanks.... depending on how much you work that could be just 2 or 3 years.
If you can get liquid tho....at $110 a fill I'm paying the equivalent of around $4.50 per K tank.
...
It's a cool bit of equipment. I can see it being great for people who run a larger torch than a single generator can run or in a location where you can't have liquid, or if you run K tanks at all.
If you're running K tanks now and live somewhere that you can get liquid delivered that is another viable option, if you work often enough to keep the liquid from venting anyways....
Anyways, it's not FREE oxygen, it has a real cost, but it's pretty affordable in the long run.
If you get one please report back.
-Doug
Do not forget to also include the cost to take time and swap K tanks out. I usually do mine on a Monday and it usually just kills my day as far as production. And last but not least, how much grief will it save you, every time I walk in and the oxy pirates tell me my fill cost has gone up another 10% I go ballistic. I can do without all the BS and corporate greed.
If you want to go the compressed oxy con route take a look at Metalbone's thread about using a Homefill II compressor and oxy cons. Initial cost is significantly lower. Stay tuned to this forum as I have a feeling you will see another tutorial using that system in the near future.
One thing to remember is none of these systems are designed to run continuous. A bottle or two a week is about all you will be able to compress and get any longevity out of your equipment.
How many bottles do you have? These micro compressors work best with lower pressures. Best case scenario would be to have a bank of 4 or more cylinders and only fill the entire bank to say 1000 psi. The volume will make up for the pressure but at a better fill rate and with less wear and tear on the compressor.
And...ummmm...amortizing the cost of the unit to start with over a 3 year period. That's roughly another 3 - 4 bucks a day depending on your work schedule. Still a good deal.
I've got one, although I did have to send it in for repairs 2 weeks ago, after about a year and a half of full time use(almost 24/365). So it produces 6-7 tanks per week for me. Its paid for its self for sure.
Doug is mostly right, but it doesn't fill a k tank in 24 hours, more like 36. It does fill 160cft tanks in about 22 hours.
And not having to lug tanks around is a big plus
Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmoinkel
Why do post concerning these machines contain obvious impossibilities?
So by your own admission you state it takes 36 hrs. to fill a K tank, but you get 6-7 per week? How many hours does your week have in it?
7 days X 24 hrs. = 168 hrs.
168 / 36 = 4.66 tanks.
Is this the machine from ABR?
Compare an EX2000 to a Homefill II unit, same machine just a different case. You can go to Litton, ABR, or others and pay close to $4000.00 for this set up, or you can buy a Homefill II and Oxy Con for a lot less and have the same thing, minus the cheesy case and hurting asshole!!!
I am fixing to do a how to tutorial in which I bought the compressor for $300.00 and Oxy con for $100.00. The rest of the build is less than $200.00.
^^^keep us posted, that is the route I wanna go for sure.
Hell I will sell you a Homefill compressor and Oxy Con plumbed up and ready to run for $2000.00. That is half what you would pay for a new one.........
Litton Engineering - EX2000
you need to re-read what you quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by byron3
22hrs X 7 (160 cft tanks) = 154 hours
168hr (Week) - 154hrs (filling). = so that leaves 14 hours to fill another half a tank.
That is of course if you are watching the tanks every second of the day so you can immediately change them when one is finished filling. Then you wouldn't be able to sleep, and your production would suffer. You do the math.
BTW I am anxiously awaiting your tutorial about a filling system. That would do so much good for this lamp working community. I am very interested to learn what you have to offer. To much hard earned money is "blown" on the outrageous costs of oxygen.
My calculations were based on K (282) tanks not 162's. Are we talking apples or oranges here? What is going to be our base tank size? I'm using 282 cubic ft, as this is the most often used / available tank size.
Manifold all the tanks, fill, store or work off of a high pressure loop. I will cover all this as soon as I can get two boxes of hoses and fittings in. I have complete parts list, prices and online ordering information. Patience, patience is a virtue.
I was just trying to clear up what Doug said. Which was that the EX2000 will fill a k tank in 24 hours. Thats just not true. It will however fill a 160 in 22 hours.
And BZ is right, sometimes the tank gets finished while i'm not avalible to change it out.
Scott
using a system like this to fill 1 bottle from start to finish is a terrible idea. these pumps work better at lower pressure, filling from 0-1000psi is much easier than 1000-2000psi.
chain as many 250cf bottles together as you can with oxy safe fittings from the welding supply store and connect one end of that rig to your fill system and the other end of that rig to your regulator. put a valve between the rig and the regulator and shut that off during fills if you want.
you probably can get 250cf of oxy out of this system in 24 hours if you run it right, at lower pressure. i only fill my system to about 1200psi and then i stop, but 5 bottles at 1200psi is something like 2.5 full bottles :)
byron3 is definitely onto something huge for this community, kudos!
why spend $4k for an ex2000 when you can put together a tank fill system based on the homefill for the $2k range with 2 compressors ?
Do a search for "homefill conversion" if you want to check out a general tutorial, build one instead of buying an ex2000 for $4k, then buy a brand spanking new Mirage and still have $ to spend on some baccy.
EX2000 cost breakdown per tank (based on info in the thread)
ex2000 delivered: $4,000
rated hours (assumes same as homefill): 5000
hours per K tank fill = 36
Number of k-tank fills over life of EX2000 unit: 139 (5000/36)
amortized equipment cost per K tank = $28.77/tank ($4k/139)
operating cost per K tank = ~ $2 (5 or 6 amps @120v * 36 hours @ $0.07/kwh)
total cost per tank: ~ $30 or so.
primary cost benefit compared to welding store = none
primary convenience benefit = 139 tank hauls and associated travel expenses avoided
Yeah, I think mine had about 7500 hours on it when I had to send it for repairs. Which took about a year and a half. I does come with a 3 year warranty on all parts a labor. That kind of nice security. So if it goes out again hopefully it will be within warranty.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to shill for this company. I'm just trying to give an accurate account of my experience.
Had there been another option when I was buying, thing might be different.
Scott
i think i can buy it for 3195 and than pay 650 to be freighted. that's fine w/ me. I'm not much of a gadget builder and don't mind paying a little extra for services and warranty.
so..when you needed to use the warranty were you required to pay shipping? and did you do any general maintenance scott?
Another perspective. I'm just placing a couple diff. #'s in the same math as Metalbone's formula (which is is figured using this threads info)
BY schmoinkel account. He has gotten 7500 hrs in a 1.5 years, and there is a 3 year warranty. He just got it fixed so it should run for (lets low ball and say) another 4,500 hrs = overall life in three years 12,000 hrs.
So take the 12000hrs
instead of "rated hours (assumes same as home fill): 5000"
12,000hrs/ 36hr fill time =333 tanks filled
Divide the cost of equipment by the # of tanks ($4000/333) =$12
Add 2 dollars per tank Electricity and you come out to
[ $14 ] to fill a tank with the ex2000 filling system
That is a considerable cost benefit for me. It is half what I am currently paying.
There are tons more variables to consider like the above mentioned advantage of filling your tanks at 1000psi, instead of to 2000psi. (and how that relates to the longevity of the machine)
Also I def. see the advantage of the concentrator conversion. Which is possibly the best route.
Plus, if you have your tanks delivered, there's a Hazmat fee, Energy Surcharge, and various taxes. My 2 $20 K tanks cost more than $75 total to swap, instead of $40.
Often, lately, I have to wait several days for delivery. Not sure what that's about, but I do live out of the way of everything. It would be so great to be able to refill them myself.
I already have a oxygen concentrator (Extreme Oxygen H-1 -- supposedly same as a Hurricane), is that the same size as an M15?