Schott Boro Artistic - If you hate it, please tell me why.

As to not threadjack the pricing thread about Simax, I wanted to get some feedback about our product.

When Schott created the Boro Artistic product for us, their production was geared towards the scientific lampworker, mostly medium and standard wall tubing.

Schott installed a new $450,000 mixer in the forehearth of their furnace earlier this year to "improve" fumability.

It seems half of you love the way the product fumes and half of you hate it.

If you had a negative experience with our Schott Boro Artistic clear tubing and/or rod, please post here. We do have the power to change things.

Thanks,

Adam

I'm one of the folks that find Simax fumes better than Schott. I use the Schott for most ornaments and vessels that I use a lot of color in, but when I'm fuming, I can't get the Schott to fume the same colors that I can get out of the Simax. I know that part of the problem is my technique and not the glass, but Simax seems to offer a wider range of colors (especially the deep blues instead of the white) for me. Other than that, I like the Schott and really prefer the feel of it over the Simax.

I use the BA a bunch I also use a little Simax and China Clear.


I only dislike the BA for its milk out action. Its great for production and a little splash of fume goes a long way. This is why some might love it!

On the other hand lets say you flame strike some amber purple tube and get the silver on the surface and then sleeve it. By the time the its done the clear clouds up and your like damn. That's why if I am sleeving ap or moon BA is not my choice.

Its great you ask for feedback way to go reps to you and I will call soon for a re up on some glass and my first order of gog from you direct!

I love the clarity. I hate the fact that nearly every piece seems to have a small line of bubbles running the length of the tube, no matter what the size (I have a dozen cases of various types, rod and tube).

ba is solid in my experience. i had alot of problems with warped tubes at first but that seems to have cleared up a bit. ive never had a problem with my fuming no matter what clear i use so i dont see that as a issue at all. the only thing they need to work on in my opinion is the consistenesy i know were artists but we need straight even and un marred tubing also. thanks for all the time and energy adam keep up the good work. if more suppliers cared like you do theres be alot less issues around here. peace brett

I haven't used a ton of Schott, but here are my impressions keeping in mind that I don't think I sampled the new stuff.

Good:
-Great feedback (by the color of the clear) to let you know how hot the glass is
-Seems to be the most shock resistant and compatable compared to other clears. Meaning if I didn't have a kiln i'd use Schott.

Bad:
-The previously mentioned overstrike/milk effect on silver based colors and fume. To me, this is everything as I hardly ever use color without clear encasement and I mostly make solids (from tube and rod)
-Not as optically clear as Simax; try it with some opals and dichro on a big marble to really see the difference.
-I haven't had this issue myself, but I've heard and read many times about the line that Loydb is talking about

I use Simax when I want "pure" results, as in the least amount of reaction to silver colors and best optical clarity.

I use Pyrex when I want to see a strong reaction to silver. Pyrex gets a great blue (not white or yellow as with Schott) that grows and gets fuzzy with restrikes.

I heard about the revised Schott formula, but I don't like it when a change like this occurs. If I pick up a few pieces of Scott from someone, how do I know if it's the new stuff or not? If you had to compare the new Schott to existing product from Simax, Pyrex and Kimble, how does it react to silver fuming?

I will put it up to user error on some of the white action. As brett said a person really controls the process. But during the sleeving of color tube with high saturation of silver for making a item that has lots of garage or kiln time is my only real dislike for what I use it for.

Others may have different wants and needs I don't make much where optics is way important but as my journey into mibs and facets grows things change.

i like the way it affects the silver colors when they are applied to the outside, triple passion especially.

i found that if i'm more careful as i remove the tubes from the cases the bubble line is not there, it could just be a scratch from the end of the tube above as you remove it.

Simax gives me richer hues when encasing striking silver colors under a layer of Clear. I toured the Northstar factory recently, they use Simax glass as the Base for All of their color produced.

Adam, Ask Abe About it, he might have some insight as to why Simax and striking colors work so well

FYI I have used 7 or 8 cases of SBA and i like it for most things, except what was mentioned above

I like it as far as it's working qualities, but there are some QC issues like airlines, out of round tubes and weird grey lines running down the tubes. Overall it's a good product, I just get Simax way cheaper so thats what I use.

Schott strikes my silver way to white, if I fume a little...it still turns white. When I blow in silver colors, it turns white.

Schott is really shocky in the flame, I seem to have more schott tubing explode in the flame than simax. (talk to cupcake about that, he's always expolding that stuff)

I also like how simax is a softer glass, it melts easier and seems to be more consistent.

I will use schott as a stand alone clear or with opaques.

Thanks Adam!

I've talked to Cupcake directly about it, he said he hasn't gotten any Schott since I was giving out free samples 2 years ago.

i have the same issues as most ...out of round...over sensitivity to thermal shock sometimes...phantom chords in the glass a few times... dont like the white i get from my honeycomb marbles... id rather pay a lil more for the nice simax but ill take a case or two in a pinch but only if its dirt cheap.. just feels like schott seconds to me at times and odds at best...ive gotten it a couple times same issues...

When Cupcake and I worked together, we would go to A2 and get cases of Schott...all our standard sizes for about two years.

About eight months ago he got a third pallate of Simax from a good friend of ours.

I know he used it a lot...I watched him blow it up.

Thanks for starting a thread to get feedback on your product, excellent PR

It's the poor optical qualities of Schott BA that make using it a buzzkill for me. There's scratchy lines up and down it, and for me, it's not worth the time it takes to clean it up...

That said, I really liked the Duran 40-50 mm I used to use 10 years ago for lathe work...

There is no such thing as Schott Seconds. Has anyone ever bought or been offered "seconds" in Schott?

I have bought 7mm rod, 32 medium and 38 medium wall tube BA from generations and it was all real nice. When I used my National 8m it tended to white/yellow out with silver fume, but that cleared up after I got my GTT Phantom. I like it. Never had any lines/bubbles. Good quality stuff in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by UST Glass

There is no such thing as Schott Seconds. Has anyone ever bought or been offered "seconds" in Schott?

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That statement actually worries me, as it sort of implies that Schott's QC is non-existent. Having said that, I've been buying SBA from Generations when there are sales, and I have no complaints so far, other than (and I'm sure I'm just pissing in the wind here) I wish all glass companies would sell in 20" or 30" instead of 60" lengths so shipping wasn't so bloody expensive.

Over the years, I have used pretty much all of the different brands of clear for periods of time....Kimax, Simax, Schott Duran, Pyrex (old and new), Chinex, UST, "Boro-X", "Eigenschaft", and Schott Boro Artistic....don't know if I'm forgetting any.

Like Brett said, I have never had any fuming issues with any of the brands. To get the results I desire, I find that I might have to slightly change the way I fume depending on which brand I am using, but it isn't a problem. It looks like some people are having issues when encasing with SBA. My wife and I use SBA to sleeve and rod encase over silver fume and striking colors and don't have any problems at all.

Even aside from fuming, there are other differences that I would notice when changing from one brand to another that would require me to slightly alter the way I work. No big deal as long as I pay attention and adapt my habits to fit the properties of the new glass.

My experience with SBA is that it has steadily improved over the last couple of years. I haven't noticed any of the lines or other obvious imperfections for some time. I do go through an awful lot of it, so perhaps I am just seeing the newer, more improved stuff. And maybe some of the people that still are seeing those issues are getting older stock from when those issues were more prevalent.

The only thing I can think of would be to track batch numbers by lot, like the way GA does with color rod. That way you would know for sure if people are complaining about issues that have already been resolved, etc. I don't know if this is feasible or not....

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Originally Posted by UST Glass

There is no such thing as Schott Seconds. Has anyone ever bought or been offered "seconds" in Schott?

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Originally Posted by Icarus

That statement actually worries me, as it sort of implies that Schott's QC is non-existent...

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Icarus, I don't think his statement implies that QC is non-existent. He is simply stating that they do not sell seconds.

I haven't had any issues with any of the sba i've used. Yeah occasionally there is a line running down the tube that you can only see when its hot. When its cold no line. I love the optic quality schott it is super clear. I also like how i barely have to fume the stuff. I have used pretty much every size rod and tube. I don't know how many pallets of it i have ordered but i know i'll keep on buying, and using it.

Anything that is rejected is crushed and then reused as flux/cullet for new batch.

As far as QC is concerned, every single case of Schott tubing and rod has a lot number stamped on the label. I use this if someone has an issue and I need to check the stock on this end. The lot numbers are stamped in Germany and Schott does track them like Glass Alchemy.

Yeah, after I typed that I thought it would be odd if it weren't tracked. When I went back out to the shop I noticed the code on all of my cases.

Ill point out the major obvious flaws:

1. Out of round/wavy tubing/rods with clear lines running through the entire length.

2. Fuming is way finicky, you have to use a perfect reducing flame and fume just the exact perfect amount of silver to get a consistent result. Im not gonna lie when you actually do get it perfect, it can be like the sickest shit ever.

A side note to number two is that I got some 50x5 which I think is from the "new" batch and the fuming is getting better but still not quite there yet.

3. Most of the rods are really easy to "boil" not sure why this happens as its almost a non issue with the tubing.

All that being said I still love how the glass works overall, that is the major positive with Schott BA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by UST Glass

Anything that is rejected is crushed and then reused as flux/cullet for new batch.

As far as QC is concerned, every single case of Schott tubing and rod has a lot number stamped on the label. I use this if someone has an issue and I need to check the stock on this end. The lot numbers are stamped in Germany and Schott does track them like Glass Alchemy.

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Okay, that makes sense. Sorry for being reactionary.

Some of the smaller diameter rods like to snap way too easy. 5mm thru 10mm. I had one box of 5mm in particular that was like trying to work with 2mm.
As far as the line dissapearing when cold thats simply not true.. On alot of my products the line just has no bearing but every now and then I have something that just clear tubing and the line is a killer.
As far as the fume its just technique.. As long as you cook in the fume on the BA and burn off any excess it works just fine.. It is very easy to over fume when working on the inside though.
I've had maybe 1 tube out of 100 that is super shocky. The first time it happened I got 2 in one box. Thought you slipped me a couple pieces of chinex in there at first. But the other 99% are butter.
All in all Adam you've always taking good care of me and you know our studio rocks the shit out of BA.

I want to get a purple-red with my honeycombs...no matter what I try to do with the BA, I can't get it.

Simax gives ma a consistent deep purple hue once I strike it...it takes a little more work, but that's the main reason I choose not to use BA for striking colors.

If anyone has gotten a deep purple from a honeycomb with BA...please post pics.

Gold and silver or just silver?

I buy a lot of SBA and the fuming is the only problem I've had. Fume on the inside whites out way to easy. Funny thing is that the UST Glass from China gives me way better fume honeycombs than the SBA.

As for what voorhees is talking about, I just like to raw dog the glass into the flame without preheating it. And I was so used to using simax that when I got the sba, I exploded quite a few tubes. I bought about 8 cases of sba around a year ago

Wait. Raw Dog Greasy Style?


I Understand now.

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Originally Posted by dBDom

Gold and silver or just silver?

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You weren't askin me but, gold works fine with sba for me, but silver definately has different results then other clears which can be good and bad. Most of the time bad, and I usually use a lot of silver or colors that have silver in them. It's a stiff clear, which is nice in ways when you have a torch like a gtt and are doing hallow work, but.......... I'd rather use chinese glass most of the time, and it's not cause of the price, and I don't use chinese glass anymore. I have a few cases of schott laying around of anyone wants them for a good price:)

fuming schott is the shit! It is the only glass I have been able to get consistent purps out of

The lines definitely don't go away when cold. It sucks, at the rate I use glass, the dozen cases I have will last until 2020 or so.

I've never used SBA but wouldn't the (over) fume be good for prodo work?

i made a clear piece out of simax and schott BA that wasn't annealed.

the simax cracked, the schott didn't.

found that to be kinda interesting, although i'm a fume junkie and i can't go w/o my simax.

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Originally Posted by TheHead

fuming schott is the shit! It is the only glass I have been able to get consistent purps out of

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Let's see pics.

I use striking colors for the h colmbs, and have been able to get good red/ purples out of it, but i like the blues a bit better, I guess I will have to get the camera out to show. All with BA and Tripple passion or something like that. Pre heat.....?...I don't do that and don't have problems with exploding tubes.....Not like that chinese tube that i tried a long time ago. I like BA and that is why I keep ordering it.

don't have to many but check the two i/o liners at the top
http://www.glasspipes.org/Img209321_...1_case.jpg.asp
light silver+moderate gold = dope

<cough>

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Originally Posted by MUPH

I've never used SBA but wouldn't the (over) fume be good for prodo work?

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no the over fume is a milky white. Most stores won't buy it. It doesn't look horrible but its not going to give you the color change. When using silver colors over BA you have to be really careful if you fume the glass first. I usually melt in silver colors with a very oxydising hissy flame to make sure any extra fume burns off. Just have to get right in the balance right before the flame is so intense that it instantly removes all fume. Sounds complicated but really its just like anything else if your used to it , its not bad. Again on the inside the story changes quickly.