glass alchemy changes

curious what everyones take on the glass alchemy new rewards program and direct to consumer model. apologies if this has been chatted already, ive been away.

two things:

1. thoughts on the 5000 point membership... that ill never get to. so i guess im at the end of the list for getting hype colors. i suppose thats the biggest complaint? any other complaints or loves?

2. they are officially dicking the distributors.... aka glasscraft, MGA, ABR etc etc etc. Frankly this one really isn't a discussion point as it just a fact of direct to consumer pricing. just more curious to hear if anyone actually seems to care or if buying direct works.


should state this isnt a bashing GA thread if you love the new programs i want to hear also! im just not enough of a player in the glass world....

In my opinion it would be great if there was a color company that charged a decent price reflected upon what it costs to make and not demand. Wait! There is! It's Northstar and they will shut down the game in time. And when those colors are added to the palette (no longer experimental) you can rest assured that distributors will get them and you won't have to worry about played-out memberships that require you to drop 5k.

Northstar for life. Northstar makes color for the masses while GA makes color for the classes.

The new Glass Alchemy reward programme has made it extremely easy for me to spend my money with Northstar.

Anything GA I want is sold out anyway. I dont think anyone likes what they have done.

Northstar has the good people and great colors, its a no brainer to buy from them.

It's been interesting over the last couple of months to watch this dynamic play itself out. Hopefully, I'll be firing the torch back up in a couple of months (the first time in nearly 5 years), and my shelves will be stocked with Northstar glass.

I am not a fan of what GA has done to the distributors. I prefer not having to shop at a bunch of different stores for my glass supplies. It is much easier to combine my clear, tools and colors into one shipping box. Which I still do as long as I don't purchase GA colors.

I also don't like having to compete with the big guys for my color palette either. I'm just a little guy in the glass world, I suspect they don't care


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looks like the masses have spoken.

Mike looking fwd to seeing what you create.

As far as im concerned - it sucks what they did to the distributors, i used to be a national sales rep for a major corp and if they went around me i would have sued them to protect my territory. but i imagine that the glass stores dont have contract agreements.

blows but what can you do. thanks guys.

Fwiw, I got into a conversation with the folks at MGA two weeks ago and they said none of their customers have had positive things to say about the new scheme. Most are frustrated they can't actually see colors (especially new ones) in-person before buying. They also said that folks who like to lay out their color fades in-store, or check the rod diameters to make sure everything will fit in their vac-stacks according to plan have been especially vocal about their displeasure with GA's new approach.

I don't know if NS intended their adumentary to coincide with GA shooting themselves in the foot, but it certainly seems like NS is well-positioned to improve its market share at the moment.

i wouldnt be surprised to see an industry blacklisting of GA via distributors. meaning the distribs wont carry it. dont blame them.

There will always be a few colors you will want tho i imagine. at least i do.

yeah i'm not too thrilled about it either. i don't use much GA anyhow, but there are a few of their colors i'll miss.
Northstar all the way for me (and TAG if i'm feeling rich).

Seems like GA really needs help business decision wise. I went to their cadmium release party and they had a special price that was more then the 30% off you would usually get. I guess they bought into their own hype. I miss when it was a rush to grab the hype glass. At least then every one had a fair chance. Oh well. Northstar it is.

have you tried the "new formula" cads that GA has? been wondering what the differences are.

Yea, truth be told I don't have too much experience with the old formula but I've noticed they are definitely easier to work with and look great when worked correctly. I havent tried the new northstar yet so I cant compare them. They still aren't easy to work with though.

There's only a handful of colors that I can't replace. That being said, after strictly using GA for many years and sticking my neck out for them quite a few times, I'm pretty irritated. I don't really care about hype colors, every now and then there's one that I want to grab, but having my access limited over a purchase amount makes it hurt where my heart should be. I sometimes spend enough on color to fit the bill, but I wouldn't spend it all on one company. Especially, a company that seems to have regressed as far as quality is concerned. Also, it seems, from the explanation I have read, that some colors that were a staple of the pallet will now fall in the hype category, which is pretty annoying.

I'm also not very happy about the slap in the face to the distributors. I don't want to order from all the way across the country, when I can order from a few states away. Even with free shipping, it's a difference of DAYS. It sometimes takes a week to get stuff from the west coast, but I've got a couple dist that can get my order to me in a day or so. If I had the ability to walk into a dist and hand pick my colors, I would likely be furious, but I have never had that opportunity so I'm just kind of meh about it.

I can see why they did it, from a business point of view, but I don't think it was a very smart move for the long run. Maybe in a larger industry, but even with the growth over the past few years, we are still a fairly small group. It's not just big names they're drawing in with this, but also the types of people that spend 5 grand on a torch before they can even push a mushroom. Eventually, the hype around flameworking will fizzle out again, as it always does, the herd will be thinned and they will be left with a customer base consisting of a bunch of people they pissed off. Like a shitty boy/girlfriend that tries to come back to you when nobody else wants to put up with their crap anymore. I would like to try the new cads, but I doubt I will be spending much money on GA anymore. I expect to see another surge of new basement color companies popping up soon.

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Originally Posted by yinzer

There's only a handful of colors that I can't replace. That being said, after strictly using GA for many years and sticking my neck out for them quite a few times, I'm pretty irritated. I don't really care about hype colors, every now and then there's one that I want to grab, but having my access limited over a purchase amount makes it hurt where my heart should be. I sometimes spend enough on color to fit the bill, but I wouldn't spend it all on one company. Especially, a company that seems to have regressed as far as quality is concerned. Also, it seems, from the explanation I have read, that some colors that were a staple of the pallet will now fall in the hype category, which is pretty annoying.

I'm also not very happy about the slap in the face to the distributors. I don't want to order from all the way across the country, when I can order from a few states away. Even with free shipping, it's a difference of DAYS. It sometimes takes a week to get stuff from the west coast, but I've got a couple dist that can get my order to me in a day or so. If I had the ability to walk into a dist and hand pick my colors, I would likely be furious, but I have never had that opportunity so I'm just kind of meh about it.

I can see why they did it, from a business point of view, but I don't think it was a very smart move for the long run. Maybe in a larger industry, but even with the growth over the past few years, we are still a fairly small group. It's not just big names they're drawing in with this, but also the types of people that spend 5 grand on a torch before they can even push a mushroom. Eventually, the hype around flameworking will fizzle out again, as it always does, the herd will be thinned and they will be left with a customer base consisting of a bunch of people they pissed off. Like a shitty boy/girlfriend that tries to come back to you when nobody else wants to put up with their crap anymore. I would like to try the new cads, but I doubt I will be spending much money on GA anymore. I expect to see another surge of new basement color companies popping up soon.

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amazingly well written in my not so humble opinion... also "where my heart should be" i died at my desk hahahahah

Maybe I'm not clear on exactly what they have done....let me put out there what my understanding was, and maybe someone could correct me where i am wrong. I was under the impression that they pulled hype colors from distributors, but not most of their colors. I don't think this is terrible if they keep order limits and make sure everyone gets some like they did with serum. With a lot of hype colors, you have non-glassblowers buying them to resell, or to have pieces made, which makes it harder for the rest of us to get some. Also, there's no reason why someone couldn't go to a distributor and pick up 20 lbs of a hype color, when the rest of us are fighting online to try to get 1/4 lbs. This being said, I've never been able to walk into a distributor to buy glass (but have bought in person at a few shows..), so this may be part of my perspective. I can understand if people who like to lay linework out in the store are frustrated, but couldn't they take their single pound of hype color to the store and still do it? I know this is maybe a little bit more trouble...but if the overall effect is more people having more access to the hype colors, i think it could be a positive thing.

I know you have to get 5000 points to make it into the club thing, but your points never reset, and it's not like you have to do it in a year....i rarely order from GA, and I've already racked up around 600 points just on sale items (and with them having weekly sales....1/3 of that isn't from the customer sale.) Normally the only time i order from GA direct is during their sale, as shipping couldn't be any further (usually about 7 days), and I have to pay for it...that being said, my last order of Jackpot came out to around $21 a pound, and the glass was nearly firsts (I've had good luck with Jackpot OK batches). I used to buy the OK quality when it was $28 a pound, but since it went up, i usually buy northstar odds. The weekly sales have made certain colors as cheap as during their sale, and i love that, especially when a color i love comes up. I have access to the hype colors, and have at LEAST since i had 120 points. Also, I hated the price GA charged once the prices rose from $28. It bothered me enough to never buy outside of the sale, and now the 30% off makes it worth it again, and I don't have to pay $100 a year to get the discount like i would with a color club at a distributor. Being as i only ordered from the sales, I wouldn't have been very into this if they wern't doing weekly sales and the 30% off. Because of these two things, i am likely to order at other times, and i think i will be able to get 5000 points in a fairly reasonable amount of time, so long as they keep having sales and discounts. If i had to rack up 5K points from sales alone, i wouldn't like it nearly as much.

Overall, I would say I like the changes, is there anything here that I'm not quite understanding?

I was of the understanding that the points reset yearly and that some of the staple colors, that I would consider not so hype, have been moved to the list of colors that the distributors can't get. I see that nobody has cads. That's pretty huge. Sure, all the stuff that happened happened, but why would I bother spending that much to even get access to them, when I'm not even sure of the quality, when other companies have comparable colors and i can support my distributor for pulling it all together for me...in one spot...that doesn't take a week to ship?

Interesting to see it said that they won't send hype colors to distributors, when the distributors I've talked with are all pulling GA from their shelves.

mr porn, for the consumer... its a generally a break even experience on the main pallet. they offer 30% off etc. so this gives NO advantage to the distributor to sell to you. you can go direct to the source.

Little guys like me get burnt on the hype colors... i imagine ill have to buy the ones i really want off some of the larger glass guys.... at a premium.

By cutting out the distributor the manufacturer gets to keep the additional middle piece. easy example-

1 lb illuminati = 100 retail or lets say the distributors get a .40 multiplier. so they pay 60$ then sell to the customer at 30% off retail and make ten bucks a lb.

Now i have no incentive to go to a distributor. esp when they wont have the stock that the manufacturer has on hand - likely anyway, im speaking in generalities of course.

Glasscraft literally gave me my start in this awesome adventure via their classes and helpful people. i "try" and buy as much as i can from them to show my support. In the end. im still paying 30% off for the color. but now i cant get the same access - whether that is because im not a big time member or because the distribs dont have it on the shelves.

plus Yinzer is totally correct in shipping. i know a lot of artists are local to portland and the area. but many many many are not. now we have to pay further shipping? and take longer just because of distance.

also dont even get me started on the board of directors nonsense.... talk about self serving.... legit its just announcing these artists are special? most already knew that... its great that they help GA test the colors, everyone can appreciate that but... they need a pat on the back for it? my opinion only. maybe others are interested to read this stuff?

Right before the Ban GA's Cadmium colors were really suffering .. infact IMO ALL. their colors were really suffering since The parents left the buisness. the quality has been taking a nose dive.

this was happening BEFORE THE BAN.. The saturation lvls in their cads .. were horrible.. in the last batch of cads I bought from them ..


I would like to point out something though .. Northstar is no longer entirely american made. I have had a much harder time swallowing that than Im having with their (ga's) new sales plan. the last order of Cads I got I bought Momka .. and the momka will work for MOST of what I do ..

Im not mad at GA for selling direct at all. the 30% off occasionals is nice to be honest .. IDK if anyone noticed .. but even before the sale the prices were lower than normal .. for everything after I signed into my account.

THE membershit program .. seems to me to be a horrible Idea . . and that is where they are shooting themselves in the foot .. ITs like slapping your customers in the face. It has a lot to do with the way it was rolled out .. so artists getting Freee passes to the front of the line .. while others paid to get the ride the ride first pass .. and then the majority of the users .. getting slapped in the face .. ITs just bad marketing ..

IMO they could have done the exact same thing and just rolled it out .. in a more tactfull way.

I personally like the idea of buying direct .. many may remember there was a time when you could buy direct from NS as well ..

I know recently as a result of NS making colors overseas .. I have more desire to buy colors from companies that keep their operations based in the USA .. I also know that the 30- 40 a lb for ga ocasionals fits into my budget much better .. than the higher priced firsts available elsewhere .

what will make or break GA for me personally .. is the QUALITY of the occasionals their selling . IN order for this model to work for me .. The quality leavels have to at least be on or at the lvls they were when the parents were running the show.. I ordered from the sale this year .. and honestly I would order much more often .. IF the QUALITY of their color improves .. (i know their occasionals not firsts ... but I have been remixing odds and seconds for 15 years... the stuff from ga for the last 2 was really low quality IMO) really thats what is going to make or break them. People will pay more to support AMERICAN MADE .. but only if its reflected in the QUALITY.

I liked GA but you can only get let down so many times ... IF they could produce decent color .. and keep it in stock . .I could see me ordering from their ocasionals section much more often if the pricing stays at 30% off .. It puts the color right in the range I try to buy in .. ITs really only a matter of weather the QUALITY is there ..

as a consumer almost anytime you can buy direct from the manufacturer .. you usually save money .. I can live with 2 days longer shipping for savings and a direct buisness relationship with the manufacturer

what evidence do you have that NS uses overseas mfg plants to produce some of their colors? they just built a new huge and eco friendly (ish) facility.
if it was an article, do you have a link? first i'm hearing of this.

i don't doubt that NS uses chems from overseas though....

A lot of the rare earths and metals are sourced overseas, mostly from China and Africa. Because that's where the deposits of those minerals are. It's not a conspiracy, just "luck" of geology.

The -dymium rare earths are 99% sourced from China -- they pretty much control the market (and of course the price) for them. Same with cerium for glass polish.

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Originally Posted by istandalone24/7

what evidence do you have that NS uses overseas mfg plants to produce some of their colors? they just built a new huge and eco friendly (ish) facility.
if it was an article, do you have a link? first i'm hearing of this.

i don't doubt that NS uses chems from overseas though....

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I have also heard from someone in the industry that they produce a select few colors overseas, or atleast get the pucks from them. I doubt it will be in any article though

I don't mind buying direct for higher quantities, but it sounds like if you're like me and want to try a 1/4# here and there that you might have added to an order from a distro with stuff from other manufacturers (and possibly saved on shipping in the process), you're now SOL if you want to try the new stuff unless you buy straight from them.

Also, setting up a caste system is just straight out rude. I think we all assume manufacturers will float the super stars a deal or a preview from time to time, but to codify that pisses people off.

^all their new transparent colors, plus illuminati and prob Lucy are made at gaffer glass in New Zealand. You may have seen those big globs of cullet northstar has posted, that's being made over seas, then re-pulled into rod at northstar in Oregon. Not what this thread is about but I don't like any of the new ns exp. colors.
That being said I kind of like the new ga set up, and I'm not a mega baller by any standards.

i'm not into the hype myself, but i have grown to love illuminati. it just looks good no matter what, bright as fuck.
thank you for sharing the info about New Zealand :)

Illuminati is not hype.

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Originally Posted by Mute

Illuminati is not hype.

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Unless you spend the bulk of your time under UV lamps, any UV color is hype.

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Originally Posted by menty666

Unless you spend the bulk of your time under UV lamps, any UV color is hype.

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We have a different definition of hype.

Hype to me is 50 shades of Paris green etc...

In my eyes its dope.

And I'm the one who started talking about this hype train choo choo in the first place.

Hype = any boro color that retail for over 100.00 a lb .. that isnt peach or doesnt have gold in it

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Originally Posted by D. dino i ninjah

Hype = any boro color that retail for over 100.00 a lb .. that isnt peach or doesnt have gold in it

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Oh boy you guys are way in left field with this one...:o:

I was told you can't batch raw uranium oxide into glass? ( in the us. )

I'm sure N.S. Would save some money to produce it in the u.s. ( If they could. )

I see a giant difference between producing a color at any cost. In turn changing the face of current boro art.

Vs.

Producing a color as cheap as possible by making it in a far off land with little to no environmental restriction.

Interesting thread.. At Trev's we have not been able to get 1/2 our orders from
GA for the last year and now the new deals they have make it impossible for stores to carry their product.
I know some of my glass blowers that do lined tubing are picky about the rod they
buy and GA has made it impossible for a few of the stores to have it on the shelves.
I think their new deal will come back to haunt them.. Mom and Dad did great running the company.

I just wanna chime in here because I usually bitch about things ... the glass I got from the sale this year " ocasionals" looks fucking Fabulous .. I still gotta try some out in the flame .. but I just thought I should mention it here ..

when the o.c . Sale ran, the "old stock" color that was discontinued, it was butter. And totally strait and even. (The last few pounds of cherrywood they had)

Makes me wonder when it was batched , how old it actually is?

Im down to my last few sticks of that Cherrywood.. and I wish they would make more ... I bought stapls for me cobalt 6 .. purple luster ... saphire (only sparkle I even kinda like that was availible) iris and .. treehugger .. rods look first ish in shape .. little air .. totaly worth it .. wish I had ordered double

Iv'e been screwed enough from distributors Im happy to be able to buy direct from the manufacturer. But Im just a single artist that would rather buy 1/4 lb at a time and still get 30% off and not have to spend all of the very limited income I have on color just to get a discount. I have had zero issues getting hype colors too, just have to be patient and get it when you can. Also I have been under a rock for a while but I don't see northstar making any translucent colors that are air free like GA. Ill be the sole person to say I think the new program is great. I am glad abe started selling test colors direct as well.

Glad to hear it snyd this wasn't meant to be a ga bash thread by any means. All opinions are welcome.

fwiw, I have axis to the "big dog hype list" from g.a. ( I got axis at the end of 2015)

Thing is, it's a big list.

When they drop new color... you have 5-10 mins from the time you get the email, till the color sells out.
Yes, if your ready , you get a grip of said color. (Sometimes sells out in less than 5 mins)

I have not read into the 5000 thing, I don't know if it even affects the "list"

If your not on your toes , it's still gone fast as f#*$