Help - Stick Stack the Eugene Rain way

**eegee** · 06-19-2005, 01:03 PM

(I'm hoping Matt or Misha will read this)

So, I've been trying to do some stick stacks like I learned at Momka's. I have 38x4 tubing and I pulled 6 points off of it with heavy handles like Matt showed us. 2 of the points still had the factory ends on them. A couple of the other 4 I had to heat and trim since they cracked uneven when scoring and hot-blobbing them. But I've found that none of this matters.

Out of the 6, I've only had 1 success (and it wasn't one of the points with a factory end). The other 5 always exploded about 10 seconds after I try to close off the end.

I'm using a kick-ass raging flame like M&M showed us and I'm holding it so the flame doesnt go into the open end as demonstrated.

Its getting frustrating - did I miss a step or technique? Any ideas whats up?

BTW - the one that did turn out worked great. I'd really like to get this tech down.

Would heating up the open end slower and softer be better??? Did I get that confused?

Should I just maybe leave enough color hanging out that I just close off color and not clear? Did I get that confused too?

EG

**PyroChixRock** · 06-19-2005, 03:16 PM

Sound like maybe it's moisture in the tube hun, not you. You were rocking them out at class I don't think you missed anything. Try putting the tubes in the kiln for like 10 mins first then let them cool. If that doesn't work, give me a call and we'll figure it out.

**eegee** · 06-19-2005, 07:23 PM

Thanks Misha. I actually tried again after I posted and had a success (well, it didnt explode, but it did crack off when I flashed the top a little too late, but I managed to put it back together and save it).

The thing is, I can't figure out what makes one explode and another not. I figured the points with the factory ends would work best, but they both exploded. The points I needed to trim due to the crackoff seemed to work better.

I'll watch for moisture - but I pulled these points a day ago, so I suspect they were dry. Do you still warm them in the kiln and let them cool anyways or is it just if you want to burn off the moisture?

Thanks again - I'll keep at it. Its a fun tech - especially when I decide to not get stressed while I wait for the explosion and just go with it.

EG

**PyroChixRock** · 06-19-2005, 07:49 PM

I have one more idea...are you using a big flame? You need to use a little flame to start it off, focused not bushy.

**Harry Paratesteez** · 06-19-2005, 07:53 PM

Ya....You deff gotta kiln the pulls afterwards.
If they dont crack in cooling , they will crack when ya heat them up.
not always...but enough of the time to think twice about bench cooling them.
let them sit in the kiln for 10 or 20 minutes b4 you bench cool them.
And I always preheat them b4 doing my wigwags.....why not if you can?
Piece,
Matt

**NUBBLET** · 06-19-2005, 08:51 PM

From explosions myself I have a suggestion . You may have not got all the air out having trapped long thin bubbles and narrow , when this happens they tend to pop (explode) or crack sometimes even off completely ( even after cool and not hit in the flame ) . Well I hope you get what I am getting to and it helps .

**duh** · 06-19-2005, 08:57 PM

hope this helps..

after you put on the first tube, you need to get the the sticks melted in together on the other side. I wait for the first tube to set up, pull off of the rod/tube/whatever, heat that end up as quickly as possible and cut the ends then marver.

Once that end is melted together, you are home free!! onced melted/marvered/(and optionally closed), just heat from that end back slowly, and marver the sticks together as you go so they stick!.

you should never have to loose all your color if something goes wrong, if it does, it will be within the first few minutes before everything is melted in, and you can still save it. Remember: if a stick falls out or sumthing like that STOP where you are, break all the sticks apart and start over before it is beyond repar!

oh yeah:

duh

**eegee** · 06-19-2005, 09:25 PM

I was using a pretty big flame - I cranked my Oxy pressure up to 60 to try and imitate what I saw on Matt's Mirage, but it wasnt a nice straight focused flame - it was more a incha and a half candles raging flame. I just remember you telling me to kick its ass and dont be a wimp

so I sucked it up and cranked up the knobs.

I dont remember - maybe that was when we were setting up with a big center fire, but short hi oxy candles on the outer fire??? I can give that a try.

Anyways - just to be clear - its exploding before I've melted in or pulled it - its right after I tack up the color near the point and start trying to close off the open end - way at the beginning (after I yank out the graphite rod). Luckily, I've managed to save the color each time usually only having to nip off the ends to get them to line up again.

Like I said - I love this tech and I'm gonna nail it. I've just never had tubes explode on me like this and was suprised by it. I've gotten 2 out of 6 so far - we'll see how I do on the next set of points I pull.

BTW - showing how to pull a point with a thick handle was worth the admission for the class. I have no fear of those handles breaking off anymore - and they're coming out straighter off the pull. Thanks.

**NUBBLET** · 06-19-2005, 09:48 PM

Preheat both the tube(s) and rods before you tack and melt . If the components are cold or not above the strain point (915F) when you put it in the flame it will most likely crack and break , and be quick not to drop the temp below along with keeping it hot by occasionally heating the whole thing (not soft just piping hot) and this should eliminate the problem .

**$$$$$$$** · 06-20-2005, 07:29 AM

i'm all about doing it the N8 way where you tack the rods, then go straight into the sleeve, i guess i dont see why you would want to close the other end of the color rods, if i'm understanding you right.

adam

**homer** · 06-20-2005, 09:23 AM

I have a photo tutorial once GP.org is back up. The Homer Method.

Homer

**somberbear** · 06-20-2005, 09:42 AM

you can upload the pictures here if you want homer we now can do that here.

when you post keep scrolling click on the attachment manager.

this should allow you to attach up to 5 pictures.

just an idea if ya wanna post it now...

In other words new freature for moving ... we can hose pictures as well as profile pics with out having to link them.

**WORLD FAMOUS** · 06-20-2005, 11:28 AM

I have a "how-to stick-stack" video I'm currently editing. All I need is the intro that shows the prep work, but the kid I'm working with just left to Europe for 4 weeks, so I either need another college video major or someone to help me finish it up. It will be available for less than $10 and will be available in another month or two for those of you that it might be interested. I posted a huge article about how to do it at the other forum, but it was lost in the EZ crash with many of my other contributions, and I don't feel like re-typing it right now. PM me with a request if you are interested.

**RCglass** · 06-20-2005, 02:32 PM

so you secure your rods to a 38 heavy and then melt them to that tube or just hook them to another point and slide it off the 38? I have been using plate glass for tubes lately. Do you think this will yield more tube?
Ryan-

**eegee** · 06-20-2005, 04:55 PM

Well, I just learned this a couple of weeks ago in a class with Eugene Rain - but essentially what it boils down to is sleeving the color while everything is cold and then raging to melt it all down. Worked real good in classs - a ton of successes with first timers.

If you want more detail, you should probably ask Matt or Misha to explain it.

EG

**PyroChixRock** · 06-20-2005, 05:04 PM

I'll see if I can take a video this week to explain.

**RCglass** · 06-20-2005, 07:44 PM

I've done stick stacks with no tube under the color , I'm just wondering if you have clear under your rods, I can see that adding alot of glass to the pull.

**$$$$$$$** · 06-20-2005, 10:50 PM

N8 and misha better hurry up on those vids, cause your gonna be left in the dust when our video comes out. I just demoed a SICK stick stack today, and it went perfect! your all gonna be so jealous

**duh** · 06-20-2005, 11:57 PM

to all you people sleveing the stickstack directly, how many sticks do you use and how big is the sleve? I usually use 24 5" sticks around a 38 mil tube. I then pull this stick stack down to about 18", and rip of 3 or 4 5" inch sections, then sleve with 50x5 mil tube and pull. This makes the color go A LONG WAY.

I'm just thnking sleveing w/o pulling down the stickstack would be a waste of color, cause that color can stretch such a long way!