Jonny's Progression Thread

**Loki Glass** · 10-09-2012, 01:15 PM

Hello Melting Pot!

I did introduce myself back in the rollcall thread in july I believe but it's been awhile so I'll re-introduce myself a little bit here as well. My name's Jon, I'm 28 and live in MA. I've been interested in glassblowing for years and years but never had the money to really get into it. In my experience I tend to get a better feel for something if I give it a go myself, so that's just what I did. I got myself a starter torch and kiln, a Midrange and a Paragon Caldera kiln with bead collar. I also got some hand tools and some glass to get started. Being on the east coast I order most of my stuff through Mountainglass or Wale. I've also ordered from ABR and Sundance and to be honest I haven't had anything but positive, pleasant experiences with any of them. It seems that glass supply companies tend to be pretty chill people to do business with.

Well, I've been on the torch for a little over a month or so. I must admit pipes are what got me interested in glass blowing to begin with, but since then I've broadened my interest in art glass and found all of the aspects of glassblowing incredibly intriguing. I've been a member here for a few months now but have mostly just hung back and have been trying to soak in as much as I can. I can't get over how much helpful information there is here and once you know a little terminology and garner a little experience, you understand what to look for and that just creates dozens more questions and answers, ha. I've also been looking through the thousands of vids on youtube, and joined GlassQ. A never ending cycle of learning, and I really dig that. I truly feel as though glass has the ability to give back as much as I put in, and that's all I ask.

So yeah, I've been concentrating on mostly clear spoons, working on the shaping. I've done a little fuming just to break the monotony but know that's where I need to concentrate for a good long while. I also ordered a small tube of cobalt, and made a few with that, but now that's gone and I'm going to keep it clear until I get the melting pot sign of approval, lol. I'm almost of of 25 mil and I'm ordering a case next week. I'll make my hundred clear spoons soon enough.

I've also been making some pendants and things like dabbers, dishes, goblets, and marbles as well. They are all very janky and need a lot of work as well, but all in good time, and I'm really enjoying it.. Hopefully I've got this picture uploading sorted out and I can post a few pictures of what I've come up with so far.

Thanks for reading!

**Loki Glass** · 10-09-2012, 01:40 PM

Here are few of those clear fume spoons, they've been coming along a little better since this picture was taken, but still need an awful lot of work with the shaping and melting in by the mouthpiece especially. I'm really trying to work on my consistency and just really getting the feel of the molten glass. I admit it's a bit strange, but I've heeded the advice to try and get the glass a little hotter than I "think" I need it, and it seems to have helped at least a little bit. I've sure been giving a lot of mediocre glass away though. Also one I was experimenting with fuming the cobalt I layed on the clear.

Here are a few of the cobalt ones I did. I like how these came out, shaping and all, but it's a little stiffer than the clear and I think that might of actually helped me out a little bit with them as far as melting the color in. Apologies in advance for the fingerprints.

**Loki Glass** · 10-09-2012, 01:50 PM

Here's some of the stuff I made over the weekend. I only had a little time out there and I was all spooned out so I figured I'd try something new. So I tried my first bubbler, and my first coilpotted slide. Here they are.

**Lever2stackS** · 10-09-2012, 01:52 PM

Not to bad at all that's a good start jonnyb your fuming looks good nice and light. keep on melting brother try making smaller spoons at first that's what helped me get the hang of shaping and melting everything in proper. Then start moving up in size as you get better. The more you do the better you'll get so just keep melting. I gave a lot of pipes away at first too.

**Loki Glass** · 10-09-2012, 02:14 PM

Thanks man, I start with as close to a 4 inch long point as I can. Sometimes they're a little bigger or smaller. Honestly right now I'm really just concentrating on making the points straight. But I hear ya, I'm wasting glass, gas and time with no reward. I'll definitely tone em back a little.

Something I'm running into is when I'm trying to condense I normally end up having it fold over in the middle or I develop a lens on the end of the bowl. I have a weird little almost J shaped marver on my midrange and I think If I had an L marver it would make it a little easier. Thanks for stopping in, and thanks for the advice!

**Lever2stackS** · 10-09-2012, 02:26 PM

It's all good and it isn't a waste at all every piece you do will be better than the next that in it's self is a reward.

**ROGUE** · 10-10-2012, 05:58 AM

Jonny your spoons are looking good. I would work on some restrictions and maybe maybe the can or bowl section a little bigger. How are you pulling your points? I know a lot of people have problems with it, but for some reason I was able to jump right in a got my first one right.

Here's what I do. First start with flame right dead center of your 25mm. Spin that until you have a nice consistent ring of hot glass around the diameter. Take it out of the flame and keep spinning, try to keep the tubing completely level at this point. Wait to until the color of the glass is almost normal again, stop spinning and just pull straight apart and hard. Not only does this keep the point straight, but it ensures you don't pull the glass too thin also. Once you have the two seperate pieces of 25mm you should be able to pull anywhere from 12 to 20 points depending on the size. I see a lot of people have trouble with points because they start pulling before the glass is cool enough and that ends up creating wonky uneven points.

**Loki Glass** · 10-10-2012, 07:29 AM

Rogue, Thanks for stopping in!
Thanks for the nice words! I'm honestly having a lot of difficulty getting that bowl size right where I want it. It seems I always go either too small or too big (and thin). I was doing some marias and restrictions towards the beginning, but realized I was working on too many things at once and have since gone back to working on my heat base and getting an even thickness throughout the piece.

I appreciate the tip on letting the glass cool a bit more before the pull to get a thicker tube, I guess I've been a little anxious in my past when pulling as they seem to come out rather thin more often than not. Not thin enough that I would be nervous blowing through it, but more while twisting and stretching. I've also tended to pull points starting at one end and working towards the other, but that makes a lot of sense. By starting with two you're working a more manageable section and therefore have more control over it. I'll have to try that today.
I've also started working off one end and working the end down to something I can fuse onto a blow tube. In the beginning they were cracking left and right but over the last week or so I think the welds have been done a little better (smaller sharper flame) as they don't seem to be cracking anymore as I get back to working the mouthpiece. I love playing with these new techniques but still understand where I need to keep my focus for the time being.

Thanks for the advice man! I need all the help I can get

**ROGUE** · 10-10-2012, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jonny B

Rogue, Thanks for stopping in!
I appreciate the tip on letting the glass cool a bit more before the pull to get a thicker tube, I guess I've been a little anxious in my past when pulling as they seem to come out rather thin more often than not. Not thin enough that I would be nervous blowing through it, but more while twisting and stretching. I've also tended to pull points starting at one end and working towards the other, but that makes a lot of sense. By starting with two you're working a more manageable section and therefore have more control over it. I'll have to try that today.

I've also started working off one end and working the end down to something I can fuse onto a blow tube. In the beginning they were cracking left and right but over the last week or so I think the welds have been done a little better (smaller sharper flame) as they don't seem to be cracking anymore as I get back to working the mouthpiece. I love playing with these new techniques but still understand where I need to keep my focus for the time being.

Thanks for the advice man! I need all the help I can get

Breaking the tubing down into managable sizes is the only way I can get straight points. If I trying pulling points on a full size piece of 25mm I'm betting they would not be very good.

Your last paragraph I didn't completely understand, but I did pick a piece out of it that I can give some more advice on. We're new, so it takes us a lot longer to complete project than a vet. That being said, you have to use you kiln. I wish I had this(the following recomendation) as an auto response on here and in real life. I also teach at my studio.

When you are blowing glass you should be working on more than one project at a time. With that in mind, follow these steps and you will have a lot less broken and cracked pieces. I'm going to use examples so bare with me.

Today you are going to be working on spoons, you're going to make 8 fumed line and honeycomb for the whole 8 hour day. Start off by pulling your points. As you pull each one, throw it in the kiln as your pulling the next one. When you are done you have 8 points or blanks in the kiln. Now take anyone of the blanks you just made, started adding your fuming. After you're done with the fuming return it to the kiln and pick out a new one. Repeat the process until all 8 are done. From here you will add your dots and lines and all the rest of the spoon. The key is... comeplete a section and return it to the kiln and pick up another piece you are working on. The more often you return your pieces to the kiln the less crack and breakage you will have.

At first making constant trips to the kiln seems like a pain in the arse, but I promise you will see less breakage. Do not work the bowl and then go back immediately and try to remove the blowtube. You will crack way more than you make. Hope this helps

Oh, and about the too many techniques thing. With pipes Marias and restrictions are pretty basic things. I started learning(am still learning) techniques with marbles and solid rod. I learned a lot of control on solid rod before I even picked up a tube. Marias aren't necesary on spoons, but in my opinion restrictions are.

**Loki Glass** · 10-10-2012, 08:50 AM

hey man, again, appreciate the time you took in your response-

I should have been more clear, looking back that was pretty tough to read and I hadn't had my coffee yet, lol. When pulling points I haven't had any real cracking aside from when I wasn't properly laying lines. If I layed the lines while the tube was too cold I would get some checking. What i was trying to say was that I've been practicing taking the the 25mil tube and restricting or reducing the end down to a 12 mil hole which I would then attach to a 12 mil blowtube. When I first started doing this I would work the whole piece, but then when it was time to work in the lines by the mouthpiece it would crack at the connection point to the blowtube.
Ever since I've put some more heat and concentrated on getting a better weld between the blowtube and the 25mil tube, I haven't had as many issues with cracking there. Sorry for the confusion.

I am also practicing marias on solid rod making dabbers and swizzle sticks and what not. Trying to put as much time into solid work as I am tube work.

**Loki Glass** · 10-17-2012, 09:56 AM

Been really busy lately trying to finish up everything I can while I still have some of the season left, but I've been getting out when I can and pumping out some glass. I can't wait till the winter so I'll have a little more free time to get out and play with some glass. I tried to do as suggested and work on my condensing and thickening up the bowls. They are definitely coming out thicker and heavier than before.

Here's some wraps and some wrap an rakes and a few frit spoons.

And some honeycomb pendants I did over the weekend.

sorry about the blur, I'm having some real issues getting my cameras to focus on the glass correctly.

**ROGUE** · 10-18-2012, 06:50 AM

The one pendent in the middle that came out focused looks real nice. I like the clean big dots. Can't really tell how good your loops look, but the weld on the side I can see looks great. ON the spoons I would say you definitely need work on the mouth pieces. The thickness looks right on, now you can get your shape, hole and bowl to look way better.

**Cameron** · 10-18-2012, 08:47 AM

Damn Rogue you sure are an "expert" for somebody with such little experience

**ROGUE** · 10-19-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Cameron

Damn Rogue you sure are an "expert" for somebody with such little experience

My roomate has been blowing glass for 15 years and I have been involved for quite some time smart ass. Now run along and play with the rest of the kids.

**Loki Glass** · 10-19-2012, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by ROGUE

The one pendent in the middle that came out focused looks real nice. I like the clean big dots. Can't really tell how good your loops look, but the weld on the side I can see looks great. ON the spoons I would say you definitely need work on the mouth pieces. The thickness looks right on, now you can get your shape, hole and bowl to look way better.

Thanks man! I was doing a lot of the shepard hook style loops for awhile but lately I've started using the bailing pliers. Perfect holes every time, and I can pump those pendants out real quick. I'll be sure to get some side pics so you guys can check em out.

With the bowls I definitely need work on just about everything lol. Of the ones I posted the top left and bottom right came out alright I think. Nice and heavy, evenly condensed throughout the whole bowl and I like the mouthpieces on those two. But the others are pretty sloppy still I admit. I just wanted to make a few with colors because we have an Oktoberfest party we do every year and most of my friends have expressed some interest in grabbing a bowl then, so I wanted to add a little color appeal to them. I'm planning on using that money to grab a case of 25mil to really dial the spoons in. I have about 10 ok to decent bowls and 10 decent pendants to sell so it should hopefully work out.

**Cameron** · 10-19-2012, 02:48 PM

Haha rogue good one.. Recess is over though you should get back to class.

Nice. way to get after it Johnny but why not get a case of 38x4 or even 32, much more versatile imo.

**Loki Glass** · 10-19-2012, 04:44 PM

I was under the impression that 25mil was sort of the beginner standard?

My personal reason for going with it at this point is price and I figure it would take more time working the glass to a molten state with my little midrange using up a lot more oxygen. From what I gather they absolutely rape me at airgas on the cost of oxy here. After the fees and taxes I'm paying 75$ for a k tank. In the spring when the cash flow goes up again I'm planning on both a better torch (either CC or a phantom, preferably phantom) and a homefill. Until then I'll just keep working on the basics. Trying to convince the wife that a concentrator would be a very economical christmas present, lol.

**faded** · 10-19-2012, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jonny B

I was under the impression that 25mil was sort of the beginner standard?

My personal reason for going with it at this point is price and I figure it would take more time working the glass to a molten state with my little midrange using up a lot more oxygen. From what I gather they absolutely rape me at airgas on the cost of oxy here. After the fees and taxes I'm paying 75$ for a k tank. In the spring when the cash flow goes up again I'm planning on both a better torch (either CC or a phantom, preferably phantom) and a homefill. Until then I'll just keep working on the basics. Trying to convince the wife that a concentrator would be a very economical christmas present, lol.

$75 is bullshit. i'd tell them to get bent.

**Firekist** · 10-19-2012, 08:51 PM

75 a k tank is insane. 25 is really high priced. 8 is the cheapest I've heard of.

12-18 is what u should be able to pay to get a k tank.

Gluck
seth

**Grizzle Mcthickets** · 10-19-2012, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Firekist

75 a k tank is insane. 25 is really high priced. 8 is the cheapest I've heard of.

12-18 is what u should be able to pay to get a k tank.

Gluck
seth

At air gas they quoted me 60 on a K tank and 45 on an S tank... Its 23 for the k and 22 for an s at praxair... I want an oxycon with a whip so I do not have to deal with the gas suppliers... I go through a 3rd party source now and his prices are 18 on a k and 8 on an s... Friend of mine who rent through sj smith ... have been for years... get their k tanks at 16 and they have to rent 3 a year and thats $60 a tank...