Jonny's Progression Thread

**ROGUE** · 10-23-2012, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

What company told you that? Sounds like somebody is trying to butt rape you. $2,500 deposit, that's total BS, is that for a lifetime lease or what? I highly doubt anybody pays that much to lease LOX, when you can almost buy a dewar yourself at that price. Most places charge $1.00 - $2.00 per day to lease a dewar FYI.

I pay $1.50 a day to lease my LOX dewar. The dewar I get is 5,000 cubic feet and cost about $115 to get refilled after delivery charges, tax & haz-mat fees. One "K" tank is about 250 cubic feet, which means my dewar has 20 K tanks in it. At first I got compressed air, from the same supplier I now get my LOX from. I would get a 250 cubic feet cylinder (what most ppl call K tanks) of compressed air for $30. $30 for a K tank may sound like a good deal to you but IMO its still overpriced. 20 of those tanks at $30 would cost me $600. Do the math, that is why I decided to go with LOX. Plus I could burn through a K in a day or two, pain in the ass to get refilled all the time, since my supplier delivers to me on Thursdays only. This way I save time (time is money) from the hassel of refilling so often and also saves gas since I now get the LOX delivered for free on Thursday. LOX isn't for everyone though, you have to be able to keep up with it to prevent venting, otherwise you'll be wasting O2.

The Airgas here tells us they won't deliver to anything but commercial and industrially zoned buildings. I have to buy and manufacture a LOX specific trailer that meets their demands.

**Loki Glass** · 10-23-2012, 08:36 AM

Well I finally got some good news!!!! After calling around for awhile I called the Lakeville Airgas and basically just lied and bullshitted through the whole call. Lol

I told them I was a glassblower from Colorado and I've been doing this for ten years and the most I ever paid was 25$ and I feel like I'm getting screwed by airgas hyannis and I wanted to make sure it wasn't the just local office screwing me but the regional one. I also told him at that price I would be out of business and to forget my account, I'd return my tanks and that I'd just start looking into a homefill. AS SOON as I mentioned a homefill he took my info and put me on hold. A few minutes later a manager came back on and apologized for my having to pay 75$. He said that for some reason I hadn't received the "contract price" like I should have. He said their rock bottom contract price was $22 per 300 but since he felt so bad that I got charged that $75 those 5 times and still wanted to stay loyal to Airgas he'd lower it to $18 from here on out!!!
I don't even have to go to lakeville, I can still go to hyannis and get it for $18! Then he said it would take 3-4 days for the contract to go through but if I needed it before then, to let him know I talked to Ken in Lakefield and he said to give it to me for 18$ and if he has any problems with that, to have the guy in hyannis give him a call. WOOHOO!!!!!

You couldn't wipe the smile off my face right now if you tried!!!!

So psyched!!!

**bildo** · 10-23-2012, 09:06 AM

Glad you found something, here is more. Total Welding Supply 114 Braley Rd East Freetown 18$ for a 337 cfm oxy 45$ yearly lease. New Bedford Welding Supply $22 for a 337 cfm 50$ a year. Dawg, FUCK AIRGAS go local. If these locations arent close enough look up welding supply companies closer. Once again FUCK AIRGAS, the over priced wal mart of gasses. More local places will work with you better and might even deliver. Please call them, I took the time and so should you. If you are serious about glass blowing you will need a lot of oxygen and getting in bed with AIRGAS is not the best way to go most likely.

**Loki Glass** · 10-23-2012, 10:04 AM

Going from $75 to $18 I'll take it! Airgas is the closest to me and now that they are giving me a "normal" price I'll be happy to stay with them. I wouldn't of even minded the hour drive to go get it at the other one for 18 but now that they're adjusting the price at my local one I'm good!

I appreciate everyone reaffirming the fact that I was getting screwed over. Gave me the motivation I needed to do something about it!

**Chad S** · 10-23-2012, 09:19 PM

@ Rogue,

Airgas prices are a total joke, trust me. When paying to lease a $3000 dewar from the supplier, they are going to want to know your full name and address, then you will have to pass a credit check, and finally sign your life away. This way you can afford to lease the dewar from the supplier on a monthly or annually payment plan, once you set up an account with them. They are trusting you with their own expensive & dangerous industrial piece of equipment. Try finding another supplier, Airgas shouldn't be the only company to offer LOX.

There are at least 4 different suppliers of 02 where I'm from within a 50 mile radius and their prices are all miles apart from each other. I looked in the yellow pages, called them all up, and asked for their prices & terms. I went with the lowest offer, and made sure they delivered to my area. I suggest doing the same and then telling Airgas to politely F-off when you find out how much they're trying to tax you.

**faded** · 10-23-2012, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jonny B

Well I finally got some good news!!!! After calling around for awhile I called the Lakeville Airgas and basically just lied and bullshitted through the whole call. Lol

I told them I was a glassblower from Colorado and I've been doing this for ten years and the most I ever paid was 25$ and I feel like I'm getting screwed by airgas hyannis and I wanted to make sure it wasn't the just local office screwing me but the regional one. I also told him at that price I would be out of business and to forget my account, I'd return my tanks and that I'd just start looking into a homefill. AS SOON as I mentioned a homefill he took my info and put me on hold. A few minutes later a manager came back on and apologized for my having to pay 75$. He said that for some reason I hadn't received the "contract price" like I should have. He said their rock bottom contract price was $22 per 300 but since he felt so bad that I got charged that $75 those 5 times and still wanted to stay loyal to Airgas he'd lower it to $18 from here on out!!!
I don't even have to go to lakeville, I can still go to hyannis and get it for $18! Then he said it would take 3-4 days for the contract to go through but if I needed it before then, to let him know I talked to Ken in Lakefield and he said to give it to me for 18$ and if he has any problems with that, to have the guy in hyannis give him a call. WOOHOO!!!!!

You couldn't wipe the smile off my face right now if you tried!!!!

So psyched!!!

i'm in northern califonia and they tried pulling this same crap with me. they started me out at $35 a bottle. after a few months i asked if we could lower my price. they dropped me down to $27. i started talking to other locals and heard rumors of $15 a bottle. when i approached them about it they lowered my price to $21, that one day. i go back a week later and i'm at $27 again. then the next week one of the younger guys winks and charges me $18. the next week we're at $27 again. i keep asking them what's up and they keep giving me "oh, it's the billing department who's screwing up". then i go across town to their other store and i bump into one of the salesmen that i've know for years from the welding shop. he knows me pretty well and says "i'll take care of you". he goes upstairs for 20 minutes then comes back and says "you're on the books at $17 a bottle. you can go to either store and it will always be $17." i shake his hand and exchange my bottles. the next week i go by the other store to exchange my bottles. they charge me $27. i ask what's up. they say "you're account is set at $27".

about this time my buddy calls me up and tells me about a new place across town that just opened. they are even open on Sat. so we head over and talk to them. they set us both up with new accounts at $7.50 a bottle. they have bumped the price up on me over the past year and half, but it's only up to $10 today. i have never gone back to airgas.

don't be surprised when they charge you $75 next time you show up.

airgas fills the damn bottles right there at the loading docks. 12 at a time. they have their own concentrators setup, on site. half the time i went in they were out of oxy because dudes were slacking on the job. i got a lot of "come back in a couple hours and we should have some ready."

**Loki Glass** · 10-24-2012, 04:30 AM

@twist- The only two I saw locally that had the liquid oxy were airgas and CorpBros. They both had the exact same price on deposit, same price within $50 annually, and same price exactly on fillups. I would LOVE some liquid oxy but right now I don't think I'd even have the time to go through it like I should without it offgassing and wasting it. Like I said, a 2500lb tank is lasting me 2-3 weeks at this point. When the winter comes around, I'll be doing it a ton more, as my job's very seasonal. But I still don't see myself going through a 300 in less than a week or so. Do you really think liquid oxy would be all that economical now that I've found that better deal on compressed? I was under the impression that liquid was more for a shop with a few blowers or someone who's out there 8 hours a day behind the torch. Not that I wouldn't like to be some days, lol.

@ faded - I understand that a business needs to make money, and a ton of them try to make the most they can out of whomever they can. But I'm rather surprised that the markup is really that high! To get a 75% discount just by saying something? That's really weird that your account was supposedly set at 17 and they were still charging you up so high. Do you have a regional airgas office around there or are all of the stores independent of each other?

Sounds like you found an awesome deal man! I'm surprised with the welding you weren't in a little tighter with those airgas guys already. Are they all really just that unprofessional? I'll be bullshit if I go in there and they try and charge me 75$ again after telling me it'll be only $18.

To be honest I wish I had a few more options but unfortunately Corp Bros and Airgas are my only two economical options at the moment. I could go to New Bedford, as they have a few more Gas companies there, but it's a 2 hour round trip as compared to a 30 minute trip to airgas. I would do that no problem if that were my only option for a cheaper deal, but Id rather not if possible.

btw faded, I've got a bowl of yours I gotta clean up and show you. I bet it'll bring back some memories! I think you were only blowing glass for a month or two when you made it.

**ROGUE** · 10-24-2012, 06:05 AM

Jonny, at this point you shouldn't use LOX. You don't use enough gas to make it worth the money. LOX purges all the time to regulate the pressure and if you let it sit you will eventually run out of LOX while it just sits there. I use 1/2 to a full bottle daily and it would work good for me. Just stick with the compressed stuff for now until you're producing more.

**ROGUE** · 10-24-2012, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

@ Rogue,

Airgas prices are a total joke, trust me. When paying to lease a $3000 dewar from the supplier, they are going to want to know your full name and address, then you will have to pass a credit check, and finally sign your life away. This way you can afford to lease the dewar from the supplier on a monthly or annually payment plan, once you set up an account with them. They are trusting you with their own expensive & dangerous industrial piece of equipment. Try finding another supplier, Airgas shouldn't be the only company to offer LOX.

There are at least 4 different suppliers of 02 where I'm from within a 50 mile radius and their prices are all miles apart from each other. I looked in the yellow pages, called them all up, and asked for their prices & terms. I went with the lowest offer, and made sure they delivered to my area. I suggest doing the same and then telling Airgas to politely F-off when you find out how much they're trying to tax you.

Jeeze, there's at least 4 gas places just 2 blocks from my house. I've never tried going anywhere else because Airgas was renting tanks for $6 last year. This year it is up to $7.50; $10 with everything added. I don't think I can get it cheaper anywhere else, but I also can't get it delivered which really sucks. Transporting 3 bottles every three days bites the big one. Me and my roomate are ready to transfer over to LOX though, so I think we are going to be shopping in the next week or so.

**Chad S** · 10-24-2012, 06:43 AM

^^ I started out with compressed air at first, just didn't work out for me, as I would burn through it left & right. My supplier rates are way cheaper to get LOX compared to compressed air. I figured out the average annual cost between the two and after decided to go with LOX. For my situation LOX is more efficient, convient and cheaper for my needs & use. If it was cheaper for me to use compressed air then I would but after two months I quickly found out its not. I'm sure you & your roomate will eventually find out the same thing, if two of you will be using the LOX daily, you should have no problem keeping up with it. This is what it boils down to, just go with whatever O2 option is more efficient & more affordable long term for you, after contacting all the suppliers in your area. Hopes this gives you a better understanding with making your decision, wish you best of luck.

**Chad S** · 10-24-2012, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jonny B

@twist, But I still don't see myself going through a 300 in less than a week or so. Do you really think liquid oxy would be all that economical now that I've found that better deal on compressed? .

Honestly, I would stick with compressed air for now, until your progress evolves a little more. Then maybe reconsider your options mid winter when your putting more hours on the torch. But If you can consistently get your compressed cylinder refilled @ $18 that is very reasonable, since a lot of other places charge more, as you already have found out. If you think a 300 is going to last you longer than a week, then no one in hell could you keep up with LOX. For your current situation stay with compressed, if its going to last you a week you'll be just fine indeed. I myself, was going through compressed in a day or two. Huge pain in the ass, therefore why I swicth to LOX. For my situation, it was more efficient, convient & afordable long term to run off LOX compared to compressed, from my supplier. Just don't ever pay $75 to get your compressed tank refilled, that is a total F'n joke. O2 is a very essential part of lampworking, you need it constantly and a lot of it. At that price you wouldn't last very long in the game. Minimizing my overhead was my first priority when seting up shop. Remember work smart, not hard. Wish you best of luck, and definitely stay with it, your progression is looking tight for your amount of time!

**faded** · 10-24-2012, 09:44 AM

i hope i didn't discourage you. hopefully your deal holds solid.

but yes, airgas really is that bad. they fed me BS every time i went in.

i would love to see my blast from the past. pretty cool you still have one of those.

**Loki Glass** · 10-24-2012, 12:06 PM

sorry guys, my computer keeps making double posts...

**Loki Glass** · 10-24-2012, 12:06 PM

I hear ya, I hope it is 18$ I would be psyched. The guy seemed pretty confident in giving me that price and he was on the computer adjusting my account as we talked on the phone. If I run into issues I'll just have jean call the other dude. Crossing my fingers...

And yessir. Actually you were one of the first people whom I saw progressing so rapidly, and that's when I really became interested in glassblowing. I always had an interest in it, and it took that to make me understand that it could pretty easily become a reality. One of my friends actually dropped it on the mouthpiece and it chipped about a year ago unfortunately, but today I cleaned it out really well, warmed it up slow and fixed it behind the torch, so blame me if the mouthpiece doesn't look up to par when I post the pic, lol. Its in the kiln now so I'll throw it up tomorrow. Funny I have plenty of dirty pics with it, but no clean ones on my comp. Nice pipe btw, still one of my favorites!

**Loki Glass** · 10-25-2012, 04:22 PM

Here's some of the stuff I've done lately. Haven't had anywhere near as much time on the torch as I'd like to lately, but winters right around the corner and I gotta work my ass off until then... Here's a few bowls I've done in the last couple days.

**Loki Glass** · 10-25-2012, 04:23 PM

faded - Remember this piece?

**faded** · 10-25-2012, 05:26 PM

i sure do. thanks for the blast from the past. it's very humbling.

**Loki Glass** · 10-25-2012, 05:59 PM

No problem man. Its nice and heavy and hits great, easy to clean.... Still one of my favorite pieces.

**Loki Glass** · 10-26-2012, 01:44 PM

Well, they held true to their word! $18 plus $3.25 hazmat fee, plus tax came out to $22.50 after all was said and done.

I couldn't be happier right now!

Now, off to blow some glass!

**faded** · 10-26-2012, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jonny B

Well, they held true to their word! $18 plus $3.25 hazmat fee, plus tax came out to $22.50 after all was said and done.

I couldn't be happier right now!

Now, off to blow some glass!

that's what i like to hear.