Metal Fuming Before Snodgrass

[DCDesigns]

Whats up yall. First of all, all due respect to Mr. Snodgrass, he is a living legend. Second, id like to say, I am no art historian, just wanted to share something I happen to discover myself. Also, Im not trying to devalue Bob's discoveries, just to point out a possible source of inspiration for him. OR an instance of simultaneous discovery (though a couple decades apart). A few of you who know both artist's work might already know what Im talking about:

Yes, Fine metal fuming...

Bob Snodgrass is given credit for exclusively discovering this technique, however others in the past have done something similar. In Degenerate Art, and essential lampworking, snodgrass talks about how when he discovered fuming, he had a decision to make. Either keep it to himself and use it as an exclusive technique, or tell everyone he knew. Thankfully for all of us he chose the latter. Well a couple decades prior, Labino made the opposite choice...

Dominick Labino pretty much helped paved the way for all of us with garage studios. Him and Harvey Littleton had a dream that the individual would one day be able to blow glass on his own in a small studio. Through their work the studio glass movement was started.

--- I was having dinner with some family friends when the topic of glassblowing came up (I brought it up... ). We talked about what I was currently working on which happened to be phantom flower marbles (flowers made with fuming), which reminded one of our friends about something. His parents (now in their late 80's) had actually been next door neighbors to Dominic Labino (he didnt know his name, just knew he worked with nasa developing the tiles on the space shuttle, and I knew it could only be Labino) When I mention his name, it turns out I was correct! This got me really excited (though not nearly as excited as what he told me next), he spoke of how protective of his art Labino was, and how he refused to take an apprentice, vowing to take his glass secrets with him. BUT he said in spite of this, his parents were each allowed to purchase one of his emergence forms (in his later years, he refused to sell his remaining work to even the most adamant collector.s) My friend said Labino's wife and manager shared with his parents (without Dominick's knowledge) that it was done with "gold smoke and powder". Gold smoke sounds a lot like fuming doesnt it... BUT Labino didnt share any of his techniques, so he doesn't get credit for their discovery.

An emergence form:

(these emergence forms are exceedingly rare now. Though they still command a high price when they pop up, *usually in the 2k range for a medium sized sculpture)

I cant find any of Labino's work that had silver in it, but I dont know, they all could. So Snodgrass may or may not have been the first person to do it with SILVER (edit: he was the first to do it with boro for sure, and to discover its color changing properties). But Labino's work predates bob's 10-15 years when it comes to using fuming itself...

**edit - It appears there have been many instances of fuming and similar techniques used over the centuries mankind has worked with glass. Snodgrass 100% deserves the credit he gets for his discoveries in silver fuming boro, color changing glass etc. - His contributions have been invaluable to our art an culture. What I wanted to bring to light in this thread was that metal fuming was used before snodgrass to an extent. Many took this the wrong way, and thats my fault for shitty communication.**

I hope you found that as interesting as I did. Im sure I could be wrong about some details, as well as there might be oversights and omissions, but once again I am no historian. Just a glass fan! Feel free to add in your own insights or correct me when I am wrong. Take care-DC

[somewhere]

That is really a stretch. Fuming has been done over and over for hundreds of years it's nothing new.

What is new is that Bob discovered the color changing abilities of the metal fume. He did pioneer color changing pipes and the technique of spraying silver and gold onto borosilicate glass. He is definitely the originator and should be given due credit.

[somewhere]

Here's some history for ya.

In the early 1880's Tiffany patented a process of exposing glass to metal fumes during manufacturing. Still it was done way before that by the Romans.

[mer]

it's nice to hear about this other guy's work. it's a shame your thread title is so provocative that many people won't read this objectively. I'm not sure you understand how much we love our snoddy.

[Mac Maestro]

Yeah, my woman is the manager of a very large collection of European antiques. Lots of the chandeliers have light yellow fumed glass shades. Also some are wrap & rake.

[LowTideGlass]

I think it is pretty well understood that snodgrass did not discover depositing silver on glass. Stannous chloride has been used for a long time for depositing fume on glass and is a technique often used in hot shop glassblowing. Much like the picture you showed, which looks like it is from a hot shop, not a torch.

To say that someone discovered silver fuming before snodgrass is just silly. You should probably have done some more research before calling out a beloved member of the glass community.

[Icarus]

Am I the only one that sees the penis in that piece?

[mer]

no, but you're the one that brought it up...

[somewhere]

I think it is pretty well understood that snodgrass did not discover depositing silver on glass. Stannous chloride has been used for a long time for depositing silver on glass and is a technique often used in hot shop glassblowing. Much like the picture you showed, which looks like it is from a hot shop, not a torch.

To say that someone discovered silver fuming before snodgrass is just silly. You should probably have done some more research before calling out a beloved member of the glass community.

No silver in stanous chloride just to keep the facts straight.

[LowTideGlass]

Thanks for the clarification.

I was just trying show that there are other techniques for "fuming"

[Icarus]

no, but you're the one that brought it up...

Yeah, I actually see a nipple under the penis as well.

DCD, you sure that's a Labino piece, and not a Sigmund Freud original?

[D. dino i ninjah]

Mabie its just me but I was pretty shure that there was some one in calli making Fumed onies in like 76- 78 becouse my step dad has one he grew up in is utah but his pal brought one to him from calli in the late 70's these pieces are not snodgrass made I don't think.. they are like a large onie bent like a scherlock with extra glass
around the dish down to the bends creating nubs that the piece sits on the work is good on these. I'm shure some of the old dead heads have to remember them.
Also there was a factory In north America that compeated with Pyrex and Flamex have a line of work that deffiniatly has that yellow blue haze in it. Dishes and cups and shit. furnace blown boro with silver color ... I thi
nk this work was done in 40's or 50's

[Joe]

there was a time that Bob gave credit to Chuck Murphy as the first to apply metal fumes to smoking accessories, we interviewed Bob many years ago for a documentary called Taboo Glass and if memory serves me correct he stated that during the interview, don't remember if that made it into Taboo Glass or not, have not watched for years, but I do know that pics of Chucks pipes made it into the documentary, and there are smoke shop owners in the LA area who recall buying Chuck's pieces prior to Bob making stuff, and if I recall Chuck credited another glassblower who was applying copper fume to boro as his inspiration to try fuing with silver, so the list probably goes on forever, but I would hope that we could all give Bob credit for taking it to the next level and greater levels of exposure

[Ikensel]

at 21 years old DC is not an Historian. As a newb he sure can get this groups attention. LOL

[Mr. Whale dick]

Worst thread.ever...

Aful subject...the.worst.2nd hand info ever

[Ikensel]

Worst thread.ever...

Aful subject...the.worst.2nd hand info ever

Can he be banned for being a dumb ass?

[Sparkey]

[DCDesigns]

at 21 years old DC is not an Historian. As a newb he sure can get this groups attention. LOL

Where on earth does it say Im 21?
not gonna deny tho, noob I be. forgive the journalist in me that wants to add an eye grabbing title, it appears this time it backfired, lol.

...there, this one should ruffle fewer feathers.

Can he be banned for being a dumb ass?

...more than one person has tried. .. and thankfully no.

[Big Jay]

I can see why someone would take it wrong from the way it sounded in the documentary though. If you listen to it a second time it becomes more clear that he is clearly talking about accidentally discovering fuming silver on pipes and getting a color change effect.

What I took from the the whole part was Snoddy saying.. I've got something here and should I keep it to myself...and I didn't I shared it with every glass blower I meet (losely paraphrased).

[DCDesigns]

I WAS NOT trying to attack bob, I tried to make that clear. I think my original title may have misled my intentions- It was meant just to get attention, and attention it seems it got, lol. Im glad that in spite of my inability to communicate properly, this thread has still turned into what I wanted it to; a sharing of information about metal fuming before snodgrass. In your defending bob against my unintentional attack, you all have actually educated me quite a bit on the history of metal use in glass art, and now I have plenty more to research. Thanks for that, Im sorry you probably think Im a dick now, lol.

it's nice to hear about this other guy's work. it's a shame your thread title is so provocative that many people won't read this objectively. I'm not sure you understand how much we love our snoddy.

I have been a fan of his for many years, wrote a research paper on him in college. As I said, perhaps in vain, that I meant no disrespect to Bob or his accomplishments. I was not staking any claims, let alone that the godfather of the boro pipe movement was a fraud. NO, I merely wanted to point out a similar technique that died out with Labino. What Labino did and what Snodgrass did are two entirely different things, both deserve our respect and admiration. I dont think i communicated it well in my first post, but that was my intention.

there was a time that Bob gave credit to Chuck Murphy as the first to apply metal fumes to smoking accessories, we interviewed Bob many years ago for a documentary called Taboo Glass and if memory serves me correct he stated that during the interview, don't remember if that made it into Taboo Glass or not, have not watched for years, but I do know that pics of Chucks pipes made it into the documentary, and there are smoke shop owners in the LA area who recall buying Chuck's pieces prior to Bob making stuff, and if I recall Chuck credited another glassblower who was applying copper fume to boro as his inspiration to try fuing with silver, so the list probably goes on forever, but I would hope that we could all give Bob credit for taking it to the next level and greater levels of exposure

That is pretty interesting. - why I mentioned simultaneous discovery.

That is really a stretch. Fuming has been done over and over for hundreds of years it's nothing new.

What is new is that Bob discovered the color changing abilities of the metal fume. He did pioneer color changing pipes and the technique of spraying silver and gold onto borosilicate glass. He is definitely the originator and should be given due credit.

I agree, color changing and fuming, all his. He deserves all the credit he gets, I dont want him not to.

I think it is pretty well understood that snodgrass did not discover depositing silver on glass. Stannous chloride has been used for a long time for depositing fume on glass and is a technique often used in hot shop glassblowing. Much like the picture you showed, which looks like it is from a hot shop, not a torch.

To say that someone discovered silver fuming before snodgrass is just silly. You should probably have done some more research before calling out a beloved member of the glass community.

I was not talking about just adding metals to glass. I know that was done. Im talking about actual fuming, puting the metal infront of a directed flame, and using the byproduct fume to color glass: fuming. Labino was a pioneer in home-studio glass work, he used many non-conventional, non-hot shop tools to accomplish hot shop like results. Im a sure he had a torch on hand that could be used for fuming.

I was in no way trying to "call out" bob. Or devalue his discoveries, just to show something similar someone else did before him. But other people have mentioned lampworkers that they claim did it before bob, so its not that far fetched. Obviously no one did it at the scale or with as much skill as the man himself.

Am I the only one that sees the penis in that piece?

I absolutely see it...