New to the game. Need advice on how to cut glass, make percs, slits etc. Best method?

[303glass]

I appreciate the effort some have taken to reply. All of the quotations are quite flattering.

So just to recap. Water is essential for multiple facets such as, health, conservation of the blade, and prevention of damaging the glass through chipping and cracking. Thank you for the list of saw providers. I am willing to pay for quality, so if it is beneficial to spend the extra, I am open to whatever. Is there a preferred company?

Thank you for the helpful information Riley. I was looking for tips and tricks, common mistakes to avoid. To be more specific, I am very impressed by the mothership percolators, does anybody have any idea how they go about producing them? Also, you advised having a circulation system for the saw. Do you think it wise to buy the cheaper tabletop saws with the blade dropping into the reservoir and modifying it with a little water pump, or would you advise spending the hundreds more for the built in drip system?

[Kevin Bumble]

I would just go to the source and just ask mother ship what they use!


Riley was more than helpful I learned lil bit too.

[aREa541]

To be more specific, I am very impressed by the mothership percolators, does anybody have any idea how they go about producing them?

I really think you need to get in front of a torch before you ask any more questions on how techniques are done. It will put everything into perspective for you. I don't know how many of my friends have watched me blow glass, then have all kinds of ideas of what they want to make when I let them get behind the flame for the first time. The feel of panic that a hot gather of glass gives you as a noob, quickly erodes all the lofty goals set before that point.

In this game, the phrase "walk before you run" couldn't be more true. Basically, you don't even need to think about getting a saw in your first 6 months (something I am surprised hasn't even been mentioned yet).

[303glass]

You are correct assume I am new. I have however taken a few classes at Glasscraft in golden,Co, known and seen multiple artist and seen multiple lengthy
demonstrations, read a good part of contemporary lamp working and other lamp working books, as well as scoured youtube and all of the other forums which are shit compared to here.

I understand how one might feel the need to inform a giddy newcomer, of the realistic expectations, however I have not logged many hours behind a torch, but what I have I feel the time been very useful and informative. I am well aware of the necessary steps and I try to maintain realistic expectation. Is it wrong to specify a
particular curiosity to know how something is done, especially in what I thought was the proper forum?

The information from the last 24 hours has been very useful, what I could extrapolate from the condescending comments and hazing anyways. I guess what I can deduce is that some people have somehow managed to intentionally skip over some other points to focus on the apparently atrocious misjudgment of the use of lubrication, rather then be helpful. I understand, how I talk can sound pretentious, but I mean no harm.

Apparently the trend is to figure it out on your own and deal with it, don't skip ahead or try to hard. Pay your dues.

[H1JACK3R]

People have actually taken it pretty easy on you.

[aREa541]

Sorry, totally my bad to assume you had never been in front of a torch before. Some of your posts just reminded me of friends I have prior to their first session. Really I am trying to help you, and honestly I would just save your money on a saw and spend it on clear at first. You need a lot of basics down before you start putting anything with diffusion in your pieces.

Nothing wrong with trying things out of your skill set, provided you have the time and money to burn. I did it frequently when I first started, it's a great way to stay interested. It's just a way easier and faster path to focus on the basics first.

[Colin Allhose]

speaking from one newb to another,
i don't think anyone is telling you 'You are on your own' but understand you are speaking to a community of lampworkers that have been doing this for years. It is good to push yourself and strive for what your desires in this art may be, but I think the moral of the story is to listen to what these guys are telling you- if you read through here, time behind the torch (a lot of it), taking time to research and educate yourself and even further keep going with the lessons. If you have barely logged any hours with the flame, you simply still have a ways to go before "monster headies." Reading through these forums or on the internet in general you can find a lot of information on glass cutting and "cold working." With some small research you can easily find the answers that you are asking for here... but jumping off the deep end of "How do you cut glass, do you need water, I wanna make these perks" is a very sporadic inquiry for somebody who is still learning the beginning steps of the science of glass.

Read lots, Research More, Get behind the flame and go go go, listen to what the guys here tell you because sarcasm aside they wont lead people in the wrong direction; they know what they are talking about - I think you will find a lot of your answers in that effort... without being lectured...

This post amused the hell out of me today, but it seemed to be running in circles with your responses....

my 2 cents- good luck!

[Riley]

the question of budget still looms, and the advice of lube is your choice alone. i find its slippery and greatly reduces dexterity and grip. as well, when people use water cooling lube they tend to recycle to fluid alot, and it gets gross. i use a 12" target brand wet saw. i do not use resin bonded blades at this time. i have friends that solely use them, and they have sources, as well if you search for "diamond resin bond blade" or "resin blade" or "resin bonded" , one of these is bound to turn up a thread where someone like vertigo glass, somewhere, greymatter, or another well informed individual has already taken the time to help.


i'll also add that because i use a 12" saw, i can actually put any size blade (12" and under), with the same arbor size into it. i use a standard continuous rim lapidary blade, probably mk or diamond pacific. i think the blade width is somewhere around .035" to .050". you will have to determine what you are cutting for diffusion, the number of cuts, and the type of perc or diffuser you are going to make. that will help decide what width works best for what application.

again, i don't use resin bonded blades at this time. i have used them plenty at other shops and i find that even though there is a minimum to no chipping, they can be incredibly slow to cut. when i do my cutting prep i am cutting literally hundreds of cuts per hour, sometimes on glass as thick as several millimeters. i grid alot of my cuts so the need for a chipless cut is not greater than my need for speed in cutting. i will also add that resin bonded blades are often twice the cost of conventional sintered blades, and they break very easily, and by this i mean sometimes in a few weeks, whereas some of my sintered blades last a year. knowing how to properly use a saw blade, and maintain it will go a long way to keep it running properly.


now to the mothership question. i am told they use lasers. for real. i have no idea if this is true but the complexity of the cuts on the flower of life percs would be hard to achieve otherwise. the only options aside from that would be maybe something like a water jet, or using photo resists and somehow sand blasting it just right, sure. the laser method sounds more realistic although i myself haven't quite grasped how the glass is held in the machine. is it some kind of rotary laser cutter, who knows? i personally feel that as cool as those flower of life percs look, they don't function amazing, and the time and resources needed to achieve it do not warrant my small operation to use.


anyhow, i tried to touch on a number of tips so i apologize if its somewhat jumbled and i'll add that although there is a veritable shit ton of information here, there is also a lack of specific information about company's or individual's proprietary techniques. that's because this is an industry. people forge their own way, and spend years doing it. you can find and know much about what most if not all people do to achieve their work. the question then becomes, what do you respect? what do you value, and how far are you willing to go to achieve your goals ? also when you spend years doing something, would you then be willing to share everything and anything with anyone who just walked in the door.

[Mr. Whale dick]

Dude did not know to use water with a saw and is ready to crank out mothership designs...


Fucking classic...

[aREa541]

now to the mothership question. i am told they use lasers. for real. i have no idea if this is true but the complexity of the cuts on the flower of life percs would be hard to achieve otherwise. the only options aside from that would be maybe something like a water jet, or using photo resists and somehow sand blasting it just right, sure. the laser method sounds more realistic although i myself haven't quite grasped how the glass is held in the machine. is it some kind of rotary laser cutter, who knows? i personally feel that as cool as those flower of life percs look, they don't function amazing, and the time and resources needed to achieve it do not warrant my small operation to use.

As crazy as that might sound, it is actually quite believable. Last year I did quite a bit of research into laser etching machines that worked on glass, and there is a wide variety available for many different uses. Some even etch inside a chunk of glass like those kitschy crystals you can get in a mall kiosk.

[cheesebox]

My shop has a pistorious and a nice diamond blade, aswell as a sawcutter willing to whore himself out for your money. and we are in the 303.

[Riley]

i have no doubt that the technology for laser cutting glass exists. i guess i just don't have enough interest to understand the complexities it takes to do. i imagine alot of the disc perc designs hitman was doing were also done the same way. the stuff looks cool, but to each his own. who knows, maybe someday with the right idea and the funds to pursue it i may get into it. though, it would have to be unique in function not just cutting some other design into a perc. there is plenty to do with a wetsaw and torch for now.

[aREa541]

If your shit ain't broke........

Or in your case, if your shit's on point, don't fix it.

[Greymatter Glass]

the more advanced perc designs use a water jet cutter, not a laser. lasers and clear boro don't play well together. A decent used waterjet cutting system will set you back $100,000-150,000. You can, of course, find people who own the machines and rent time on them.

As for saws... you're looking at (new costs) $500-1500 for a basic wet saw set up, $3000-10,000 for a high end machine and blades.... there's plenty of used and cheaper equipment out there as well... so of course you can eventually find a used pistorious for $1000 and buy some blades...

But is the time, effort, and money you're putting into this project better used elsewhere to increase the base skills you'll need to have work deserving of some higher end work?

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Riley]

the only options aside from that would be maybe something like a WATER JET, or using photo resists and somehow sand blasting it just right, sure.

glad to know my half ass assumption was correct, thanks doug. when i was at graffix some years back they sent out some tube samples to a laser place to have them test some etching. they came back with micro fractures and the idea was canned. i think we've talked about this here at some point. i just wasn't sure if maybe some more advanced laser techs hadn't come down the pipeline. pun intended.

[dnug42]

ah there is a ton of post on wetsaws, blades, wetcutting, ect...type diffent word combos- look deeper man- do some leg work....and mr riley hooked you up...good luck!
goldy

[VertigoGlass]

My advice to you is to read and learn and shut your condescending mouth and learn to take advice. You must come from the instant gratification generation. To those that have put their time and effort into leaning and developing tech wasted countless hours and dollars on trial and error just so you can prance up with your hand out wanting the world given to you is insulting to those before you and those before me. A little respect goes a long way with some of these salty cats. Beyond the free hand outs that have been given to you in this thread there is plenty of info on this site about saws and blades, I know this because i have gone into detail not only on blades but saws and water delivery systems as well. You start this thread off about wanting the best then slide into the will a cheap saw work. I have a cheap ass HF saw that the blade cost more than the saw and an MK saw that cost 8 times the HF that leans up against the wall unused and if you did a little research you would know why........

as far as you making percs i dont care how many videos you have watched or books you have glossed over or how smart you think you are chances are that stuff is beyond your level as of now. Start where everyone else has pay your dues and learn this wonderful art the right way. I know you have these great dreams of making 5k+ tubes your first day week month out but chances are it aint gonna happen no disrespect but pay your dues. No video book and so on will replace physical time behind a torch point blank. Im shocked that you didnt get trolled harder than you have so far and BTW I LOVE SAMMMICHES

[Riley]

^ glad I name dropped this gent in regards to the search function and specific blades already being readily available. Chris, you are a beast. Your knowledge and extensive technical interests make me smile. There are so many intricate technical fields out there that I have no idea about that it's a true pleasure to glimpse and get a vicarious high through it.

[Endersion]

Posting in epic thread. First page was hilarious. 303glass is just as pretentious in person.

[Aaron Ellis]

^Hahahahahahahaha. I was thinking the same thing vertigo.