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Thread: CC crush washer?????

  1. #1
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    Default CC crush washer?????

    Anyone got size, specs, info on the crush washer for a CC?

    Ive got a clogged port and my torch is currently sitting anyway while im on the lynx so id like to clear that port out. ITs plugged good, deep, like a $2 who......nevermind.

    I know they dont sell them anymore from carlisle but has anyone measured and gone to grainger?

    any help would be (oYo)

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    I would say its 1 and 1/4 inch across ( exactly )

    1/8th of a inch wide/ tall ( it has a square cross section , if you cut it. )

    I could not find the metric tape measure anywhere..... And I looked for a long time .

    It is copper. It sits exactly the same height as a nickel and a penny stacked.

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    This one was crushed already ........ Figured you would know that , but "hey you never know . "

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    You could also call up N.M. Knight. They should be able to sell you one.
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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    You can just anneal the old washer so it will crush again. Takes about 10 mins.
    will be just like new.
    Khan

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    wow this forum is awesome, thank you so much!!!!

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    What is this for?

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    So I googled "can you resuse a copper gasket" after khan suggested the kiln to soften the washer.....

    I found this video. In it they use a hand torch like a plumbing torch , or a dab style torch. I would not use a glass torch or oxy flame, It would be so hot it would melt the copper.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMLqlDSsQpA

    I just used a pair of tweezers , and heated the crush washer evenly till it was nice and shiny ( then it oxidized instantly ) like 1min + tops.

    I used a long wrench to assemble, and thought for sure I did not put in enough guff to seal it up..... but it did , way easy.

    I still had my doubts , and have pounded 100+ hours on the torch sense last week.... still no issues what so ever. ( The gasket was even bent and scuffed up from me removing it from the cluster of jets) I just cleaned it up the best I could. I can't believe the outcome.


    I resealed my sargent . It works better than I remember.(The center fire is still spastic , the more hours I put in , the smoother it seems to get. ) I have gotten the torch so hot, the steel case goes "ping ping ping" like a (tiny) hot car exhaust. But the face does not glow , and the seal still does not leak. I think I agree with Jr23.... the sargent is hotter than the cc when in full flight. (hotter than I remember ) It is narrow compared to the cc (phantom size) so top end is close to the same imo. ( cc vs. sargent ) The real difference between the two , is your high o2 flame. You have to crank the sargent oxy to get all that o2 out of the tiny gaps. The other thing I did not remember...(it's been a few years) was that the two torches look the same on the outside , but the left side of my sargent is the propane knobs. The cc has its propane on the right side. Tuff to get past my muscle memory. I keep adjusting the wrong gas.

    I will never fear taking my carlisle/sargent style torches apart ever again.
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    Default

    That's great and all but keep in mind the thickness of that washer has been changed from reuse. The barrel is designed to sit so far down to come even with the outer fire assembly. If you look you will see your outer fire ring now sits proud of the barrel.

    You anneal copper to take away hardness. There are only a few ways of hardening copper. Work hardened and chemical hardening. That washer should not be work hardened and with the amount of heat it see in general use it should stay annealed.

    Anyway I'm glad it sealed up for you. I wouldn't be so quick to recommend this as a fix. A new washer should always be used.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    This sargent sat that way from the start.

    Long story short , mine has always been that way. Even when I had extra material on top of the washer to seal it up , the ports stuck out.
    The original owner did not like the sargent (he had 2 cc's I bought ) and it was a extra thrown in with the cc buy. From what he said , he did not like the center fire , So this sargent sat unused. In theory it has under 500 hours total run time.

    I had wondered about the long ports too, The original owner/buyer of the torch assured me it came that way new.

    I have wondered what the options for sargents are. some are stainless, and have a "s" in the i.d. number. Some are brass?

    Some seem to have the ports flush.

    Some have the ports poking out , like I have seen knight do on certain torches.

    this thread has a knight with long ports , claims you can run the outer solo some how ( I know nothing abut that )

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    http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...night+for+sale

    Some even have the ports sunk a little. Like the one crip has. Crip ground his flush.....but I have see several like it. The ones like crips , or the one jeff 3355 just sold , They all look exactly the same. The ports are spread out more , sunk , and more negative space for o2. They also seem to have a beveled edge on each port , like this...

    jeffs....
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    crips......Click image for larger version. 

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    The one other thing that I wonder about it the grind mark. Some have a weird grind mark on the edge of the barrel. Like some of the ones sky posted to g.p. http://www.glassartists.org/Gal541_tools_and_such.asp..... Mine has this mark. 0n mine , you can see it ground the edge of the ports that stick out as well. I wish I had more pics of torches with the grind , I have seen a 1/2 dozen like this at least. I have no idea why this is, but they all look similar.

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    mine...
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    Last edited by BORO; 05-19-2014 at 10:21 AM.

  10. #10
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    Looks like you have done the research.

    I still believe that everyone of those sargents and the like are just knockoffs of the Carlisle. I only say that because everyone I disabled had the same burner tube assembly. Poor machining, castings and small changes made all these knockoffs inferior in my opinion. The original design for this burner called for a even planed face. As you probably know the center fire, outer fire ring and barrel can all be adjusted depending on the thickness of the washers installed. After machining new copper washers all the burners I rebuilt had a flat plane on the face. That is except for a couple early burners I sold as is. I can't comment on that picture of the knight (looks like a central burner) I can only imagine carbon and heat problems with the outer assembly pushed so far forward.

    As I was told Sargent was the first company to be accused of stealing the Carlisle patent. They quietly changed the oxy propane and continued on there way. I have no idea if any of that is true.

    Kavalier h-1 the original also uses the same design with added air. I do believe they have been making this style bench burner before Carlisle.

    Way to any variables to say what's better but common sense tells me these should be on plane regardless of what we have seen out there.

    I'm sure you know once that washer is crushed annealing will never bring it back to original thickness. I think that is critical to making these burn true. I can only imagine most of these old burners have been monkeyed with at some time in its life. It really doesn't take to much force to over crush any of those washers to throw the whole face out of plane.

    I forgot I ever made a glass artists page. Thanks for the blast from the past.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    I have an old Sargent that I got in partial trade. It has the recessed ports, with no washer inside. Someday I was going to get it ground flush, and get a new washer from NM Knight, but it is very low on my to do list. Mine looks like Crip's or Jeff's, with recessed ports and a raised centerfire.

    I was just going to grind the barrel so it sat even with the outers, but I wonder if grinding the whole face including the center would be a better move.

    Either way, if anyone is interested in a small project let me know, I am down to sell or trade.
    Distributor of Gentec Products for the Glass Blowing Industry

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    I do appreciate the safety factor. It could very well be incorrect. the ports stick out 1/8th of a inch, the washer is 1/8th of a inch thick , don't think I crushed it flat.

    The original owner was 85 , and retired, so who knows what "new" was or looked like. It was free, it works. The long ports may be part of the "hard to get a oxidizing flame" problem.

    Question for sky , or anyone who really knows.... The outer gas is reversed for the propane to come out the ports like a cc. If you run cc valves,and cc crossovers , you are switching the center fire too. Does anyone know if it is designed to be like a cc , or is the center fire reversed inside , like the outers?

    will the pre mix work better one way , or the other? because its pre-mix , does it even matter?

    I can't tell a difference either way... jumpy all loud all the time(compared to a cc ) unless the pressures are super low.

    what way was it new? (I see you had the sargents center set up opposite a cc)


    I do have a lead on crush washers being made new... just waiting on my home boy.

    edit: I am amazed how big the candles can get on this torch , before they become unfocused .I will try to shoot a pic this afternoon... I figure the tiny o2 ports keep the oxy moving fast, streamlined around the candles.
    Last edited by BORO; 05-19-2014 at 11:34 AM.

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    here is the pic of the knights makers mark... the link to the thread was below the pic.

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    Check out this place for a crush washer...

    http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraf...r-crush-washer

    Khan

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    Some pics of the Sargent running after the fix.
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    The one or two long candles , looked like they were lacking enoughf 02. So I used a tiny set of drill bits , and a hand vise that looks like a pen. I opened up the oxygen orfices closest to the offending candles.( with good results)
    I see no reason to grind it flush , it's hot and has a clean flame compared to any other I have seen.
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    The Sargent flame is longer than a similar flame on my cc's. I would think the long flame would imply more complete combustion of gasses... Then again they are two different animals , even if they look the same.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg  

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    Default Re: CC crush washer?????

    For a carlisle cc, What direction do you turn the two main parts to get it apart? is it lefty loosey? Or righty loosey. Normal threads or is it reverse threads(like for propane)?
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