Marble/Pendant Kiln Strike Help

[DIMBW]

Heya heya

I was hoping someone may be so kind as to point me in the right direction for kiln striking deeply encased color in marbles and pendants. I've tried temps of both 1160 and 1175, soak times from 15 - 45 minutes, multiple sessions in the back of the kiln, and nothing seems to get great results outside of colors specifically designed to kiln strike. I want to get the deep purple and blue's from the AP family to run through my vortex's, I can get the back cone deep purple but the face is always a lighter sky blue. Silver Creek, Double Mai Tai, Triple Passion, Pink Mai Tai are my go-to strike colors and have seemed to work best for encasement but I still can't get the color under the lens a rich purple.

I searched around the site a bit and it seemed like most the advice on kiln striking is for functional/tube work. I seen a few posts on silver fumed honeycomb mibs and just leaving them in the back of the kiln for a week, but not a lot else on solid work.

Any help with kiln striking encased silver colors in thick marbles and pendants would be stellar.

Here is a few pics of what I'm talking aboot

[brads]

[snip]nothing seems to get great results outside of colors specifically designed to kiln strike.[snip]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting this? Are you complaining because colors that aren't designed to kiln strike won't kiln strike for you?

Regardless of the answer to that question, it looks to me like your problem is the color has already overstruck, giving you the pale cream color. At which point leaving it in the kiln for a week won't get it back to purple again.

[istandalone24/7]

the silver strikers and a/p's typically get washed out/dulled when deep encased.

my only advice is to use simax clear.....keep the a/p's as HOT (struck clear) as possible and at the same time keep the piece you are applying the a/p to as hot as possible....a very hot stick of a/p applied to a cold surface will cause the silver to come to the surface...which you dont' want (ok that might not be a full explanation but it's close and it's how i remember it being explained to me).

also.....check out Brent Graber's dvd's....they have the secrets to getting a/p type colors to sing under encasement.

[BORO]

First thing I would do is.... (If you don't already ) You need to burn the haze off the a.p. colors BEF0RE you ever use it. 0r you get the mud coat that hides your purples (the purples may be there already, you just can't see them)
this is from the "resource" page > tips and tricks > northstar from Mountain glass.com

http://www.mountainglass.com/Tips-an...html#northstar

" How to work Amber Purple...
1) Heat Amber Purple using a hot oxidizing flame. If the flame is not oxidizing enough the Amber Purple will turn a milky brown color and not strike purple.
2) Heat with the oxidizing flame to burn off the haze. (Haze is a layer of reduced silver that deposits on the surface of the Amber Purple when it is first heated. it is crucial to heat that off, so the color doesn't become clouded.)
3) After all of the haze has been removed, you can start shaping.
4) Let the glass cool until it stops glowing. If the color is a transparent yellow, it is in an un-struck state. Allowing the bead to cool is a crucial step in achieving a good purple strike.
5) To strike, gently pass it through a cool oxidizing flame for two to three seconds, then fully cool.
6) Repeat step five until the desired color is achieved. Amber purple can produce a number of shades depending on the cool off period and number of strikes."


The other thing you could try is a different purp. I would suggest momka's violet medley. It starts off pale pea green , and strikes to a dark red first , then all the great ranges of purple you want. It is the easiest to flame/kiln strike imo . The best part is almost no surface haze/mud to contend with. I don't know what it will do deep encased....but it is so easy to get great colors from v.m. ( the colors you are talking about).....you need this color in your stash.

http://www.mountainglass.com/Momkas-...Medley.htmllet



edit....... I knew I saw a better write up about a.p. color....... this was in the "northstar user manual" pdf at whale apparatus.com

http://www.waleapparatus.com/client_...USERMANUAL.pdf

The Amber Purple Family

"One of the most elusive and alluring set of colors in the borosilicate color palette is the Amber Purple family. The base formulaic origin of this color family was developed by Suellen Fowler while at Pepperdine University and passed on to the founder of Northstar Glassworks. The Amber Purples are known for the wide array of effects that they produce in many different applications. They truly epitomize the uniqueness of colored borosilicate striking colors. This color set consists of NS-13 Amber Purple, NS-26 Double Amber Purple, NS-48 Light Blue Amber Purple, NS-49 Dark Blue Amber Purple, and NS-69 Green Amber Purple. Each is designed for a particular application and strike characteristic. NS-13 Amber Purple-the original shade-is best suited for thick blown work and sculptural work. This is also the case with the NS-48 Light Blue Amber Purple. The other three shades, (NS-26 Double Amber Purple, NS-49 Dark Blue Amber Purple, and NS-69 Green Amber Purple) are more versatile. The darker shades can be used for sculpture, but they can be stretched much further, making them more suitable for thinner applications. For color tips and suggestions visit our website and call for a complimentary brochure with a step-by-step guide to working the Amber Purples. The first and most key variable in achieving a purple strike is how the flame is set. Never work the Amber Purples in a reducing flame. Set a sharp oxidizing flame to work these colors. If the flame is not oxidizing enough the color will opacify and turn a milky yellow. When first heating the color you will notice that there is a metallic haze that precipitates on the surface. This is reduced silver metal that leaches out of the body of the glass and deposits on the surface. If the piece is worked before all the haze is heated off, the layer of metal will thicken and turn a matte gray color, thus masking the true color. In order to achieve the purple strike once the Amber Purple is applied it must be heated aggressively with a strong sharp flame in order to remove the initial metal deposit. Turn the work slowly in the flame so the heat scrubs the surface of all the haze. The surface must be heated to the point that it almost boils. Even if the flame scars the color it will melt back in and smooth over. This is the crucial step in the whole procedure. Once the initial layer of haze is removed it will re-develop, but not to the extent of the initial buildup. The redevelopment of the haze can be burned off easily without the extreme heat. With the more intense Amber Purples (NS-26 Double Amber Purple and NS-69 Green Amber Purple) more vigilance must be kept because the haze will redevelop more quickly. When striking the Amber Purples there are two options, flame or kiln striking. To maximize the strike all the haze must be burned off. To flame strike, allow the piece to cool for twenty seconds so that there is no more heat glow. Then, bathe the piece in a soft neutral flame so that the 6surface barely glows. To darken the color, repeat the heating process. By heating for short increments of time, the color can be struck to the desired hue with a greater degree of accuracy. If the color is heated too aggressively, it will over-strike and perhaps the haze will re-deposit. Flame striking is best suited when a color gradient is desired. To achieve a uniform color all the way through the work, kiln striking is the best option. When kiln striking, place the un-struck (haze free) Amber Purple in the kiln and hold the work at 1125-1150 for approximately sixty minutes or until it reaches the desired level of intensity. Note, some thinner work may slump at these temperatures so be vigilant."

[istandalone24/7]

fwiw, i've also had better luck deep encasing the "passion" family from GA, as opposed to the amber purples from NS.
also the mai tai's seem to give nice colors under encasement.

[DIMBW]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Do you think I could be over striking them by working them a second time? A lot of the time I make my vortex's and kiln them to work into a pendant another day, a few times I have noticed after adding accents and bail and the final kiln cycle I lose some color, other times there is no change at all.

I usually use Schott for color work and Simax for fuming. I will start giving the Simax a turn with my strikers and see how it turns out.

Once before I gathered up a couple rods of NS AP into a clear gather and pulled out a cane without any haze and didn't see much of a difference, but I have noticed the NS AP's are the worst under encasement. I will try again using Triple Passion or Pink Mai Tai. I have thought about giving Violet Medley a try but just haven't pulled the trigger, I will for sure pick up some on my next order and give it a try.

I have watched a few of Brent Graber's DvD's but nothing that really cover's this, which one are you talking about?

In general I have noticed the the more saturated strikes do better under encasement, i.e. Triple Passion, Double and Mega Mai Tai compared to their less saturated forms. Pink Mai Tai is great laid on thick, but it takes a few trips in the kiln to get right and still can be a bit finnicky. The only NS strikes I have much success with encased is Silver Creek and Solara. I will take everyone's tips and report back!

Thanks again!