Newbie questions and Spectrum 96 for beadmaking?

[optic]

Greetings, I'm new here. I've been taking an intro glassblowing glass at my college, and im planning to take a kiln formed glass class next semester. I absolutely love it. Working with glass is amazing, its all encompassing, and im consequently failing all of my other classes due to my dedication to this one -__- While the hot shop is magical, and i doubt torchwork would ever compare, realistically the only way i can see myself continuing to pursue glass is through the torch. Thats fine with me, as pipemaking has been a dream of many for many many years . Ive been working part time this semester and have about 200$ saved up, Im thinking of buying a hothead starter kit for home that I could practice beadmaking on over my 3 week winter break, and then pass on to my friends to practice while I'm gone. Now I realize I've already marked myself for bashing, as this is a boro forum with a passionate hatred of Hotheads, but my rational for starting on a hothead is that I can't blow glass in my dorm room on campus, so my trips home are my only real opportunity, ill have winter break and spring break to practice beadmaking and marblemaking, and outgrow the HH, and hopefully also teach a few buddies the basics, and then by summer break im hoping to have enough money for a decent boro torch (and ill have to find a way to make enough for a kiln too..... prostitutions looking nice ).

So I have to questions to pose.
1) Who has the best HH starter kit? I've seen devartis recommended on other sites, however Ive seen on here that devarti glass is god awful. Would it be better to buy everything in peices rather than search for a "starter kit?"

2) In the Hot shop here we use Spectrum 96 glass, we have 2 furnaces and a color pot, and i have access to many colors. Ive pulled cane a few times and could easily pull a few lbs of clear and colored glass and ship it home. Does spectrum 96 work for beadmaking on a HH? Ive only heard of people using COE 104 glass.

[Skipjack]

Generally, it is best to put together your own collection of equipment. Depending on who offers the kit, sometimes instead of a discount for buying everything at once, the kit is sold at a premium.

Since the Hot Head is considered by some to be a starter torch (but there are established bead makers/murrini makers who only use Hot Heads, and bead makers who use the Hot Head as a lower temperature torch for adding decorations), perhaps the best source for a Hot Head is the classified section of bead making forums. Most forums require you to register in order to see the classified sections.
The most active bead making forum is LampworkEtc. ( www.lampworketc.com )


A real Hot Head is about $40. Knock-off hot heads are just brazing torches and are about $20. However, if you want to experiment before getting an official Hot Head, try going to your local auto parts store. A few years ago, you could get the torch on which the Hot Head is based (the Mag Torch MT245) for less than $10 at Auto Zone. The MT245 is commonly available, and you probably could find it at WalMart.

The difference between an official Hot Head and a brazing torch, as far as I know, is in the orifice plate. The official Hot Head has a recessed orifice and also has a screen, and tends to be a bit cooler because the screen reduces the gas flow slightly.


"Spectrum 96" can be worked on a Hot Head. COE 90 is also a popular application for the Hot Head. For example, Glaskolben, which are pre-pulled points most often used to make ornaments, are COE 89, and so COE 90 colors can be used. Besides Spectrum, COE 96 is commonly available in the Uroboros and Reichenbach brands.

Regarding Devardi: I belong to a group called the Silicon Valley Fireflies, and one of the members started out as a glassblower. He made his own kiln for preheating Devardi glass, and as far as he is concerned, pre-heated and/or annealed Devardi glass works for him just fine.

Actually, there may be members who would offer to send you their old Hot Head for the price of shipping. I believe that happened on this board within the past month.

There is much that can be learned with just some basics. You can have lots of fun with a torch, mandrels, and bead release. A torch holder would be nice, and the simplest ones are just a C-clamp, a piece of iron, steel, or aluminum bar, and a couple of hose clamps. Then, instead of a fiber blanket, you could use a can full of vermiculite or perlite. For mandrels you can get some steel rod at the welding store (something in the 300 stainless steel series) and cut them to length. And you'll want a flint spark lighter. You might want a pair of tweezers for pulling off the scummy ends of your glass rods. While you'll eventually want to get a brass, stainless steel, and/or graphite shaper, many people use a butter knife to start. For a fire resistant work station, you could get a small square of cement board or a few ceramic tiles. I'm just saying that if you're really limited in budget or would rather save for better equipment, you are probably better off without a kit. But if you are looking for a kit that has almost everything you need, including the proper eyewear, here's a good one:
http://www.abrimagery.com/store/prod...ter-kit-p-1808 (About $100)
and here's one with a book:
http://www.mountainglass.com/Mountai...6#.VGWwNkvS6ZY (About $130)
Those both have official Hot Head torches. There is a Devardi kit, but you won't be getting the $40 Hot Head, so take that into account when comparing for value.

But, under no circumstances, should you buy a starter kit that features a "Fireworks" torch.

[optic]

Generally, it is best to put together your own collection of equipment. Depending on who offers the kit, sometimes instead of a discount for buying everything at once, the kit is sold at a premium.

Since the Hot Head is considered by some to be a starter torch (but there are established bead makers/murrini makers who only use Hot Heads, and bead makers who use the Hot Head as a lower temperature torch for adding decorations), perhaps the best source for a Hot Head is the classified section of bead making forums. Most forums require you to register in order to see the classified sections.
The most active bead making forum is LampworkEtc. ( www.lampworketc.com )


A real Hot Head is about $40. Knock-off hot heads are just brazing torches and are about $20. However, if you want to experiment before getting an official Hot Head, try going to your local auto parts store. A few years ago, you could get the torch on which the Hot Head is based (the Mag Torch MT245) for less than $10 at Auto Zone. The MT245 is commonly available, and you probably could find it at WalMart.

The difference between an official Hot Head and a brazing torch, as far as I know, is in the orifice plate. The official Hot Head has a recessed orifice and also has a screen, and tends to be a bit cooler because the screen reduces the gas flow slightly.


"Spectrum 96" can be worked on a Hot Head. COE 90 is also a popular application for the Hot Head. For example, Glaskolben, which are pre-pulled points most often used to make ornaments, are COE 89, and so COE 90 colors can be used. Besides Spectrum, COE 96 is commonly available in the Uroboros and Reichenbach brands.

Regarding Devardi: I belong to a group called the Silicon Valley Fireflies, and one of the members started out as a glassblower. He made his own kiln for preheating Devardi glass, and as far as he is concerned, pre-heated and/or annealed Devardi glass works for him just fine.

Excellent, ill have to start pulling tons of canes and stringers with my blow slots now are you sayng a brazing torch would be better because it gets hotter?

As far as the devardi comment, I dont have a kiln, ive looked into making my own but the cost is generally minimally less than a cheap or used kiln online. :/ If you know of any cheaper DIY kilns let me know.

Also this makes me wonder if I should be annealing the stringers and canes Im pulling? Generally I only anneal large chunks of color from the color pot, canes cool so quickly I feel like they might crack from the heat of being placed into the annealer...

[brads]

There's no need to anneal the stringers or cane you make unless you're pulling stuff that's 1/2" or more in diameter. And you won't want to use cane that big with a HotHead anyway, annealed or not.

96 COE glass will work okay with the HotHead. 104 would be better since it melts at a lower temperature, but you obviously have better access to 96 right now, so using that makes sense.

As far as annealing, for now just learn to make your beads carefully and use vermiculite or fiberfrax to keep them from cooling down too fast when they are done. After they are cool, remove them from the mandrel and put them all in a container to bring back to school with you. Then set them into a corner of a cold annealer that is going to be used that day, and let them batch anneal with the other stuff that gets loaded into it during the day. Depending on how fast the annealer heats you may need to build a small "muffle" around the beads with some firebrick scraps to keep them from heating up too fast. That might also help keep them safe from beginners loading larger pieces into the annealer, who might not notice the beads.

A bonus to this is that batch annealing like this will help you develop some useful skills. Learning to make soft glass beads that won't crack before batch annealing will put you ahead of the game from the start. A lot of people develop bad habits simply due to the fact that they are loading a hot bead directly into a kiln when done and don't need to learn to evenly heat the glass before cooling. Ask them to make a bead that will hold together without immediate annealing and they are totally lost. Learn this way and you won't be one of them.

[Skipjack]

I'm not saying that hotter is better, necessarily. There is also the type of flame (more reducing). But I am saying that most people don't notice the difference, and that some people insist they are the same torch because they look the same on the outside. One way to make the Hot Head or MT245 more flexible is to partially or fully cover the air holes. In fact, under some conditions, the holes might have to be covered to get the torch to light.

Perhaps I have to take back the comment about kits not necessarily being the best route, because the two kits I referenced include eyewear, which might be pricey, depending on where you look. (I've edited my original post, and it is a bit different than what you quoted.)

Stringers aren't usually annealed. As for the canes, I would guess that you'd just have to see. I don't believe that the glass rod makers anneal their rods when they make them available to vendors, but maybe someone has more information on that. From what I have heard, Devardi is notoriously shocky over the whole line, while for the others, it mostly depends on the color and style.

I'm not the best person to ask about kilns, but I can describe some of the discussion from the last Silicon Valley Fireflies meeting I mentioned. The former glassblower made his annealing kiln from firebricks and a pancake type element from an enameling kiln. I assume that since the enameling kiln element was sized for glass work, it is a bit more reliable than the Devardi ceramic kilns that are converted curling iron warmers. Also, since he built the kiln, he had control over the number and size of openings. Of course, that simple design doesn't have a rheostat or thermocouple or coil elements that go around the kiln, but it might be "good enough" to start with.

[Speedingpullet]

If it makes you feel any better I started out on a Hot Head! They're good little torches for learning the basics on, but I'm sure in a few months you'll find that its a little too underpowered for you. Hopefully by then you'll have started to make a choice as to what kind of glass you want to use, and can research what kind of torch you want.

COE96 designed for fusing/glassblowing is fine for torch work. Some of the stained glass 96 - especially the colours - can devitrify or strike/burn, but anything not specifically designed to be worked cold will be great for torch work

As a fuser too, I often make beads out of my COE90 scraps - including twisties, stringers and some painfully bad home-made murrini ;-) As long as you make sure not to mix COEs, you'll be fine.

Glass is fun, isn't it? Hope you find a way to enjoy it for a long time :-)

[optic]

Thank you all for your extremely helpful responses! Im going to ask around to see if about getting a free or highly discounted hothead (if you have one youd like to get rid of let me know!) and then see about assembling my own toolkit. glasses are the one thing im worried about, currently in hot shop im just wearing sunglasses, though if I continue with glass classes Im going to get a pair of the didys they sell at school, would these be the same type id need for lampworking soft and boro? or would I need a seperate set for lampwork? Also Ive seen didy glasses range from 20$ to 300$ and have no idea the differences/what is necessaray for what I'm doing.

I spent three hours working on pulling colored cane with my friend on friday. Got about 15 feet of perfect black cane in slightly varying thicknesses, and then our next two attempts were fairly disasterous.... >< I have a lot of yellow "cane" that isnt straight in the slightest... lots of random little curved/looped bits etc. We started pulling too hot and it all just piled on the floor. Our third attempt got us a few feet of decent yellow cane and then we did a clear pull that got us about 4-5 ft. If I could squeeze in another day of canepulling down the road I think Id have more than enough glass to work through winter break I also have a variety of cane Ive found abandoned in and underneath lockers, lots of it is much too thick to torch work, but some of it is perfect. Hopefully me and my partner wont use too much cane over the next month.

Im very very excited to begin tochwork. Any recomendations for what tools I should pick up for beadwork and small marbles? Im thinking a flat/ridged marver, tweezers, a small marble shaper, and a dental pick sort of poking/raking tool. Any other sugestions?

[CrassGlass]

I was absolutely miserable on a Hothead. Marbles turned out dirty and it took forever to make anything. I almost gave up on torch work, so I am glad I decided to give it a second chance on a fuel/oxy torch. So if that hothead you get ends up making you mad, don't give up!

[optic]

I was absolutely miserable on a Hothead. Marbles turned out dirty and it took forever to make anything. I almost gave up on torch work, so I am glad I decided to give it a second chance on a fuel/oxy torch. So if that hothead you get ends up making you mad, don't give up!

I dont plan to! I realize the HH likely wont make me happy in the slightest, but i dont currently have the money, and the month ill be home between winter and spring break doesnt justify me working my ass off and spending every cent to my name on a legit torch. If I could id get a full setup, kiln and all right now! haha. I dont want to not blow glass when im at home though, so I figure I might as well get a HH and at least begin getting my workbench setup and my basic skills up to par for summer when ill hopefully have 500+ saved up.

[Skipjack]

Thanks for the answer in the "Hot Head wanted" post. I'm putting this here to keep the other thread on topic.

Unfortunately, I don't know the resources in your home area.

It's good to explore them because, for example, in my area there are both places to rent studio space by the hour if you want to try out a fuel-oxygen burner, and even places that have days where people can come by and use the facilities (burner and kiln) for free. We have two organizations with monthly meetings (an International Society of Glass Beadmakers - ISGB regional affiliate and also an ISGB local chapter) held at various places with some meetings including "torch time" for member attendees.

In your area, the local ISGB doesn't seem to be that active, with quarterly meetings. I've linked to their resource page, just in case you find something there that is close to your home: http://www.socalflamesurfers.org/resources/classes/

That's just from the bead making side, and hopefully someone might mention resources in your home area from the glass blowing side.

Luckily, in Southern California, I'll bet you'll be able to work outside during the winter and not have to set up a ventilation system for your Hot Head. After you try it out and if the Hot Head seems good enough for you to work with, you'll probably want to look into getting a bulk fuel adapter. In the portable bottles you'll have the choice of propane or propylene (MAPP-Pro). The MAPP burns a little hotter and cleaner. The bulk adapter will allow you to use a BBQ propane bottle. Bulk propylene bottles are available, but not as easy to find.

I'd say tweezers are a definite want. I don't know anyone who uses those aluminum flat/ridged marver things. For marbles, if you really want to save money for good equipment, you might try applying your hot shop techniques by drilling holes in a piece of wood, charring it, and soaking it to make an "infinite rim" mold used like your blocks. I'm not sure about the poker/rake for Hot Head beads. You'd probably be able to use a blunt edged knife as a shaper/tamper. After you get used to round beads and surface decoration, a hand held graphite marver would be useful, but you might find a Hot Head bundle with a torch mounted marver.

I'd watch Craigslist in the LA area. As with many hobbies, sometimes you find someone who just wants to move on and sell their whole setup. For example, there's a Bravo setup it Hemet right now. I'm not saying that it's for you since it is out of your stated price range right now and is, at least for me, a longer drive than I'd like to make from LA, but I'm saying that these packages appear relatively often. Beadmaking isn't quite as lucrative a hobby as it was ten years ago, so people give up on it.

While it is good to know that sometimes you can't base the flame working experience on time with a Hot Head, I'll say again that I know people who prefer the Hot Head and have done impressive things with it. The only thing you can't get is an oxidizing flame. The official Hot Head is said to be designed for a less reducing flame than the unmodified brazing torch.

It's good knowing there's a bit of time to get set up before your winter break. I suppose it will be easier and less expensive to have things mailed/shipped to California rather than Hawaii. Good luck with your search. I might have something for you as the time gets closer to your school break. I run a lending library up here in Northern California, but usually limit it to local members, because I've had a couple of bad experiences lending to people posting on a forum.

[LarryC]

I would suggest you save just a bit more money and buy an entry level oxy propane torch. If you intend to work with Boro in the future and make functional glass then the hothead is worthless. You should be able to find a used minor or national for about a hundred bucks. Anything else you buy such as hoses and regs will still be usable in the future when you upgrade or will be sellable if you dont decide to stick with torchwork.

[menty666]

I'd ignore Larry if I were you. You can learn a lot on a hothead about heat base, proper rotation, even how to cleanly weld rods together. You can even make small vessels on them. Learning the basics is never a waste of time. Frankly, the simplicity of the torch and limited flame chemistry range allows you to focus on technique than worrying about fiddling with knobs.

Many of the beads from this artist were made on a hothead; have a look: http://www.hollycooper.com/

[Skipjack]

A possible clarification (I may be wrong, but I don't believe so):

I believe with that artist's process, the base bead is made using a burner and kept warm in the kiln. Then, the surface decoration is done using a Hot Head. Much of the work is done at the edges of the Hot Head flame and most of the time there is no sodium flare.

(Oops, just checked my link. You have to be registered to view this thread.)
See also this thread, "You CAN do it on a Hot Head": http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24873
(See post #5 for a borosilicate vessel made on a Hot Head.)

[LarryC]

Thanks Menty! My time and money must be worth more than yours. To suggest a hothead is a good first choice for this persons needs is ludicrous.

I'd ignore Larry if I were you. You can learn a lot on a hothead about heat base, proper rotation, even how to cleanly weld rods together. You can even make small vessels on them. Learning the basics is never a waste of time. Frankly, the simplicity of the torch and limited flame chemistry range allows you to focus on technique than worrying about fiddling with knobs.

Many of the beads from this artist were made on a hothead; have a look: http://www.hollycooper.com/

[menty666]

To be so closed minded is ludicrous.

The poster said they had a limited budget and workspace, and has ample access to coe 96 glass. Further, they laid out a plan to learn the basics by making beads, selling some, maybe learning enough to teach a little, and using that money to then fund a bigger, more boro appropriate torch. All to often folks say, "make glass, then upgrade" and that's exactly what they're trying to do.

So no, suggesting a hot head torch is not ludicrous.

[LarryC]

We will just have to disagree. who's mind is closed? I just suggested that spending anything on a HH will most likely be wasted in short order. In fact mine got just about a weeks use before I gave up on it. I believe I still have mine and if I can find it the poster is welcome to it if they pay the shipping.

To be so closed minded is ludicrous.

The poster said they had a limited budget and workspace, and has ample access to coe 96 glass. Further, they laid out a plan to learn the basics by making beads, selling some, maybe learning enough to teach a little, and using that money to then fund a bigger, more boro appropriate torch. All to often folks say, "make glass, then upgrade" and that's exactly what they're trying to do.

So no, suggesting a hot head torch is not ludicrous.

[brads]

While I personally despise the HotHead, maybe because I was using gas/oxy looong before I ever tried one, there actually are people using them who like and get good results with them. I have a friend in Columbus who has used one for years and likes it because it's easily portable for demos just about anywhere.

Sarah Hornik can do what I consider magic with one, even using it on silver glass successfully. <--[A somewhat veiled plug for myself as well, since I made the silver glass she used, lol.] In contrast, when I used the same glass she used for those beads I got great results on gas/oxy, and nothing but mud on a HotHead. So it depends on the user too.

Any time I've been forced to use a HotHead I've been frustrated by the lousy flame chemistry and lack of heat. But for someone working within the parameters mentioned by the OP of very low buy-in cost that will work with 96 COE glass, I wouldn't write off the suggestion of a HotHead as ludicrous. (Even if I still hate the damned things.) It certainly isn't what I would choose, but in some cases they can be useable.

[optic]

Thank you for all the replies! Larry trust me, Ive lurked on this form quite a bit, I've heard all of the woes of the hothead, and am prepared to suck it up and deal with it until I reach a point where I am capable of upgrading (as soon as that may be!). If you have found yours I will happily pay shipping! im hoping to get everything by december 20th, Ill have 3 weeks to build up my frusturation with the HH, and hopefully learn some basic techniques, then Im headed back to school. Unfortunately I probably wont be taking a glass class next semester, but over the summer Ill be taking one that im very excited about.

Right now lampwork is just a side project for me, a way for me to utilize glass when Im at home and dont have access to the hot shop. I feel that with my limited amount of time a hothead is a perfect starting point, that will hopefully keep me occupied over my few trips home. Come summertime I will hopefully be prepared to step up and get a real torch, and once I have my own torch I might be able to work something out with my instructors to allow me to use it in the studio. Theres everything needed for them to run a torchwork class, but the instructor left, so all the exhausts and gas and oxygen lines and what not are in place over an empty work area. It would be awesome If i could gain permission to use that space while Im at school, I'd have access to an annealer as well.... dreamsdreamsdreams....

Ive been working on pulling cane, ive got overlays down, and Im starting to get fairly consistant pulls. However, I know nothing of what makes ideal cane for lampwork, so some pointers would be nice. All my cane is encased in clear, is this good? how thick a layer of clear should I have? would I be able to pull stringers from thicker chunks on a HH or are they essentially useless? how thick is too thick? Would using an optic mold on the layers of color produce an effect that would still be visible in a finished bead? any advice would be nice! Im having fun pulling canes, but I realize the type of canework i do on larger off-hand blown cups and things probably requires much less attention to detail than the canes used in lampwork. Right now ive been making transparent purple over white canes, theyre really nice looking :] also got yellow, black, and blue.

Thanks for all the help everyone! and Larry let me know about that HH!

[Skipjack]

The Hot Head should be hot enough to do anything you want in terms of bead making. I don't believe you'll have any trouble pulling stringers.

Canes for lamp work are usually somewhere between 5mm and 8mm.

You'll probably get other better advice about canes, but lamp working cane usually is not encased. Encased cane is usually for detail work so that you are handling a larger piece of glass rather than a tiny stringer and/or to prevent the detail from spreading. The only encased lamp working canes I've seen are filligrana, in which the colored core is about a third of the cane diameter.

Not sure about the optic mold. Lauscha sells some bi- and try- colored canes, so there must be some use. Usually in lamp working, the optic molds are used for making murrini, so if you are making layered cane, you can cut it into chips that you can use to decorate the beads.

Are you looking receive the Hot Head in Hawaii so that you can try some things out, or are you wanting to get the Hot Head sent to California?

[optic]

california definately. And wit encased cane i could easily just pull some stringers to make he clear glass somewhat more negligible right? i also have lots of pure colored stringers, some of which are pretty big, just from pulling excess color off the punties when working in the hotshop. Im gunna buy lots of color as well, Im just interested in seeing what i can do while i have access to everything i need. thanks so much for your help and knowledge skipjack!