Fume, wrap n rakes and frits...

[krispysglass]

Hey y'all,
So got a couple apprentices that are getting pretty clean on their fume spoons, wrap n rakes and frits... they are mostly using about 3 in's of 25 heavy... it's been years since I sold um myself, and I was out west working with big orders... so now I'm in Illinois trying to help these guys out but don't want to short um or create too high an expectation... my teacher had a huge blanket order of 1000 of each of these so the preice wad based on the volume.. I used to sell my fume spoons for $3.50, bats for $4, wrap n rake spoons $7, frit spoons $7, frit bats $6... how does this compare to anyone whose selling um maybe in batches of 50 or 100??...

www.kaglass.com

[PyroChixRock]

I know it probably seems like just another prodo piece, but pics do speak 1000 words.

[Price]

I'm in Illinois as well and while I'm not doing functional prodo right now, I did a few months ago as an apprentice. Never sold in batches over 100, but the guy I worked for got $10 for frit and wrap n rake spoons. $8 for inside out chillums.

[Mattypo]

^^ I get 10 for wrap and rake and 8 for inside out chillums. I do my wrap and rake on 32 though, my 8 dollar wrap and rakes are on 25mm.

[CheeseNip]

Is dropping price according to volume really common in our part of the glass industry? I've never really heard of any artists doing that. Really only heard of that from import businesses and stuff like materials. I've had a distributor for quite awhile now, and I've never had to drop my price because of volume. I also used to work in, and own half of a production shop, and even then we never had to adjust price according to volume. Seems strange to me to drop price due to volume, seeing as the price of production doesn't really go down when you produce more, other than maybe getting a few minutes faster after doing a ton of them. I mean, say you buy a couple cases of tube at a set price, plus all your other materials. Factor in your time, gas, electric, etc., all your overhead, then set your price per piece. Once you have your price per piece based on these factors, how does producing 1000 justify a price drop any more than producing 100, or even 10, due to the fact that piece number 1000, cost you the same amount of money to produce as piece number 1?


Now back on topic, I haven't made anything like you describe for production in about 4 years, but I used to do some very similar sounding pieces at my old production company. If I remember correctly, our wrap and rakes went for like 10 or 12 bucks, small fit spoons were 12 or 13, we never did any bats, and our G&S fume line spoons were like 10 or 11 bucks as well. We did use both gold and silver in all of our work, so take that into account if your W&R are only silver fume, or no fume at all.

[Capsalty]

I don't know about pipes, but a lot of businesses sell cheaper in volume even if it costs the business the same to produce whether it's 1 or 100 products. It gives an incentive for your customer to buy more, which is always a good thing. If you're so busy that you don't need more business then I guess that wouldn't apply, but if that's true you should probably raise your prices.

[Aymie]

As I general rule, I do not discount for volume. I will let regular customers talk me in to a discount on a nice big lots of pricey stuff. In my opinion, if you want me to make that same thing 100 times, it's going to be more expensive.

[krispysglass]

Okay so short version, I'm good, thanks ya all... as for nips, really appreciate the reference to imports, bus 101, 'volume pricing' capsalty likes to make $, everything is based off of quantity, that's the name of the prodo game, I'd rather be on my torch then in the car or snapping pics trying to sell... i like orders, gimme 100 i/os @ 25 over 5 @ 27.50 any day and every day for that matter... I'll knock off 10-15 mins a piece when a large order is all said and done.. Henry ford created something called an assembly line, this was where each task was broken down to be a singular job and as ya went down the line, the pieces were assembled... poof industrial revolution and bam America...

to any newbs reading this thread please understand, pay your dues, do your prodo, not only will ya excel in the long run, you'll know ur shit... pull your 100 points then do your 100 pieces, if doing wrap n rakes, do one full day of cobalt, the next ruby and so on, get your head out of the process and you'll shave more minutes and minutes over quantity equals hours and dollars, have your time to create, and later you'll have the skills too... sorry argue with so many trustifsrians about shit like this, and to the ones that made a jar a marbles to start out, think they are on the same page... no disrespect except imports are the shit, and obviously idiots since they are putting a lotta kids out a business, but hell, guess that goes to darwin...

Ps... any illinois artists... be sweet to meet up to melt some glass after the thaw

www.kaglass.com

[CheeseNip]

Well then.. I don't know if it's just me, but I sense a little hostility based at me for my comment.. I wasn't trying to be hostile or anything, and I wasn't trying to say you are an import shop, or are producing glass at that quality level if that's how you took it. I'm just stating the truth. They are the only shops I ever see that drop piece price according to volume sold. I know plenty of glass artist who do not drop price according to volume. Maybe I'm just lucky, but my distributor will pay me the same amount wether I make 100 ISO spoons or I make 1. I don't sit in my car or snapping pics all day trying to sell my work. My distributor takes care of that for me. I've paid my dues doing production, and still make most of my money making production. I've had employees on an assembly line making pipes, and was able to make a larger amount of pieces more quickly that way, yet we did not drop price according to volume. My distro just buys everything I make at the price point I set per piece, regardless of piece numbers. I realize that most business's do operate that way, which is why I said "in our part of the glass industry". I just do not see pipe makers operating that way, which is why I asked if that was common practice in our part of the industry. I know I do not, and I actually don't know a single blower who does operate that way.

[Nomad]

Prices sound good. I don't sell anything less then $5 a chillum though. I would not make $3.50 fume spoons and $4 bats. You will end up getting stuck making 100's of just them. But my wrap and rake spoons sell for $6 each discounted for my distributor who orders by the $1000. $7 milli spoons, $5 chillums, and baby bubblers for $12. That kind of thing.

[Nomad]

I have not sold any head pieces in a long time. Everything is production spoons and baby bubblers really.

[krispysglass]

Not little hostility necessarily , just being clear. .. but so if ya are working with a distrobutor, then you have your discount built in already, I was asking for numbers cuz that's what I am trying to be cautious of, theory is great but the cracks in descriptions leave open interpretation... and ya of course once a price is set with a distributor, that is the price regardless of volume, but you can't tell me that ya give your distributor the same price you would sell to a shop, that's what they sell the work for, unless they are working for free out of the kindness of their heart... sorry man just hit me the wrong way I guess... what part of the country are ya in? And does your distrobutor only sell to that area?
Anyways thanks nomad, ya the 3.50 thing is brutal, got them doing 3 at a time off one big point to help speed those up, and as a new guy comes in they move out of doing those ya know?...

www.kaglass.com

[Loki Glass]

In my location I get a bit more, but electricity is very costly here. I sell to my shop at wholesale and sell my stuff privately at a matched retail price.

I get $3.50 for bats (3.00 if you buy 100), $10 for fumed spoons, $15 for 25mil wrap n rakes, $20 for iso chillums or iso frit and $25 for larger iso spoons $30+ for bubblers an rigs depending on the work involved. They on average sell 2x retail and people eat em up. He endorses the fact that I'm a local glassblower and he really pushes the "buy local, support local craftsmen" thing with people and it works to both our benefit.

[gypsea]

I'm always searching for a polite, non-antagonistic, positive way to respond and still make the sale when people ask me for a discount if they buy two. (In a retail glass shop environment).

[krispysglass]

Thanks jonny, appreciate the specifics, how big are those fume spoons? Sounds like a sweet area, and mad props to that shop owner, really appreciate those guys...

Gypsea, I hope I didnt come off at antagonistic or agressive, but ya I've found it tricky sometimes, especially after ya give a fair price and they want to add to the order and renegotiate and it's like dude, i already gave ya a cut on those, why would I take more off. Lol hence the beauty of a distributor, like dude said, set a price and roll, no more haggling either way, energy can be focused on our craft

www.kaglass.com

[BlairArtGlass]

I think I've gotten really lucky with the shop I've started doing business with. He has gave me exactly what I"ve asked for and bought my whole case each time. Its been about 30 pipes ranging from $8-12 depending on size. Its all been wrap and rack and frit pieces so far, and he called me the other day wanting more which I call a win. He also told me flat out he would pay more for the pieces as my shaping got tighter.

[Loki Glass]

4" on 25mm for the $10. I also do beefy 6 inch pieces for $15-$20 on 32 and 44.
My shop owner and the manager let me set my own prices for the most part.

[CheeseNip]

Thanks for clearing that up krispy. Sorry if I came off confrontational as well. I get that way pretty easily when I'm having a bad day. My distributor does take a small cut, but takes the same cut no matter volume. The way it was written before, I kinda assumed you were paying a distributor cut, plus knocking off even more for higher volume orders. I'm in Indiana, and My distributor is in N.C., and goes to 44 states I believe, so they're definitely all over the place.

[the-thought-police]

Is dropping price according to volume really common in our part of the glass industry? I've never really heard of any artists doing that. Really only heard of that from import businesses and stuff like materials. I've had a distributor for quite awhile now, and I've never had to drop my price because of volume. I also used to work in, and own half of a production shop, and even then we never had to adjust price according to volume. Seems strange to me to drop price due to volume, seeing as the price of production doesn't really go down when you produce more, other than maybe getting a few minutes faster after doing a ton of them. I mean, say you buy a couple cases of tube at a set price, plus all your other materials. Factor in your time, gas, electric, etc., all your overhead, then set your price per piece. Once you have your price per piece based on these factors, how does producing 1000 justify a price drop any more than producing 100, or even 10, due to the fact that piece number 1000, cost you the same amount of money to produce as piece number 1?

I give price breaks for larger orders. It comes in the form of a discount, and it works as an incentive to get people to buy more. Buy this much, get 10% off, buy this much get 20% off. That kind of thing. Why? Because if someone spends $2000 dollars with me in one sale, I don't have to try to make that in ten $200 sales now. I'm fishing for those larger orders in the thousands by providing incentives, to save time, so I can spend more time on the torch instead of in a car doing sales and deliveries. A bunch of sales at my regular prices, or one quick sale for a large amount for a bit less. It works itself out in the end, for me.

I do little 3 inchers of 25 mm as rakes and frits all the time for 5.50 to 6.50 to answer the OP's question. I bust them out quick as hell though. Like crazy fast. Not exactly treating them like individual works of art though either. Slap it together and get it out the door type of a deal.

[Nomad]

I have been turning down customers because I am so busy with one. So to tell you the truth there the only people I have to deal with. They accepted most of my prices. So I am happy with that. My prices are so low that I could not really give anyone a brake to begin with.
It is all shipping. Which is good because your behind the torch most of the time. But it can be bad because the orders get to be so big they take all day to wrap and ship. I do not pay for shipping charges either. I have to pay for the box bubble wrap, tape, and peanuts.
There is not much hanging out at the shop talking.