The Melting Pot - Where All Glass Addicts Melt Together - Powered by vBulletin

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 52

Thread: GTT Sets the Record Straight

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spatula City
    Posts
    2,421
    Rep Power
    68

    Default GTT Sets the Record Straight

    For years, people have reported to Willy and Wally that representatives of Bethlehem Apparatus claimed that Willy and Wally stole technology from Bethlehem Apparatus and quit to form GTT. These reports were just hearsay until recently when an officer of Bethlehem Apparatus, their own Vice President, Kate Lawrence (aka Kate Burners), came out and voiced these very same claims, herself. [see screenshots of Kate’s quotes]




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	lefttostartowncowitheducationbeth1.jpg 
Views:	404 
Size:	101.4 KB 
ID:	73249
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	burnedbywillywallylefttostartowncoslander1.jpg 
Views:	402 
Size:	41.2 KB 
ID:	73251



    When I rebutted her claims with the facts as told to me by Willy and Wally [see screenshot of my rebuttal], she denounced the rebuttal, calling Willy and Wally’s story “half-truths” and “lies” not backed up by evidence. She said that she has “employment records” and “torch notes.” She said that she was disengaging from the conversation, because her participation was endorsing “wild claims.”

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	willyandwallysstory.jpg 
Views:	399 
Size:	106.9 KB 
ID:	73252
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	katerefutesrebuttalcallslies1.jpg 
Views:	399 
Size:	96.3 KB 
ID:	73253



    



Well, Willy and Wally’s claims are not lies and there is evidence backing up their claims. I feel that this evidence should be presented so Bethlehem Apparatus’s claims can be shown to be false and, hopefully, so Bethlehem Apparatus will finally stop their libel and slander against GTT/Willy and Wally. The claims leveled against Willy and Wally are serious and do have consequences and Willy and Wally are considering their options at this point. At the very least, Bethlehem Apparatus should post a retraction of their claims and follow up with a public apology to Willy and Wally.

Kate claims that Willy and Wally “left to start [their] own torch company.” Willy and Wally did not leave. They were discharged. They were discharged because they had become ill while working at Bethlehem Apparatus. When Willy and Wally became ill and did not know what was wrong with them, they sought medical attention. They scheduled their doctor’s visits and testing for after work hours. They were not fired for poor attendance. They had no idea why they were as sick as they were. It wasn’t until one of the doctors they were seeing asked about what kind of work they did that heavy metal poisoning was looked into. At the time, Willy was down to weighing around 100 pounds and Wally had begun losing the feeling in his right leg. Their bosses called them into the office about a week before their test results came in and made some outrageous accusations regarding the origins of their illness and their twin relationship (remember, this was in the early 90s). After their meeting, Willy and Wally went back to their posts and at the end of the day, one boss came up to them, confused, and asked why they were still there. They replied that they had not been told that they were laid off or fired. The boss told them to not return until they received their test results. The day before the results were due, Willy called Bethlehem to keep them up-to-date to let them know that the results would be ready the next day. Willy and Wally wanted to go back to work. They called Willy and Wally back a few minutes later, still before the results were in, and told them that they were terminating their jobs and told them to “go ahead and collect” and that they would not fight them on collecting unemployment insurance.
    
Kate refutes the claim that they were terminated, saying that “If people actually believe we would fire an employee because they were ill and we were afraid we would ‘look bad’, then there is no reasoning with that person. That person would be choosing to believe we would risk closing a company… just to be a jerk.” 


    




    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	katedeniesbafiringwillyandwally1.jpg 
Views:	410 
Size:	109.2 KB 
ID:	73254

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	katedeniesbafiringwillyandwally1.jpg 
Views:	410 
Size:	109.2 KB 
ID:	73254


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	noticeofdeterminationwah1.jpg 
Views:	401 
Size:	174.5 KB 
ID:	73256
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	noticeofdeterminationweh1.jpg 
Views:	393 
Size:	181.9 KB 
ID:	73257

    
You can see from this document that when Willy and Wally filed for unemployment, their employer initially claimed that they were discharged for “willful misconduct” (noted at the top center of the document) and when the employment security office investigated, the employer (Bethlehem Apparatus) said that Willy and Wally were discharged because “WORK INVOLVES HAZARDOUS MATERIAL AND EMPLOYEES MUST BE COMPLETELY HEALTHY.”


    So, there you have it. Willy and Wally did not quit. They were discharged because they had become very ill.
    My reason for posting this is to show, once and for all, that Willy and Wally did not leave Bethlehem to form GTT, as the Vice President of Bethlehem Apparatus has openly asserted. They did not “burn” Bethlehem Apparatus. It is my hope that now that this is out in the open, Bethlehem Apparatus will stop making those false claims.

    
Willy and Wally also did not steal any technology. The torch building knowledge Willy gained while working at Bethlehem was common torch-building knowledge available from any of the other torch-building companies at the time and Wally received no torch-building knowledge from Bethlehem Apparatus. If Willy and Wally were pirates, they could have easily built the same torches Bethlehem Apparatus offered after they were fired/laid off. They didn’t do that. They started a small landscape company (koi ponds and water gardens were their specialty). A few years into landscaping, they decided they wanted something to do during the off-season, and since Willy had enjoyed building torches, they started their torch project. They wanted to build something better than what was already on the market, and they did. The triple mix technology was developed by Willy and Wally long after they were discharged from Bethlehem Apparatus. It’s all in their patent documentation. They had 34 prototypes before they hit on the triple mix design.



    Enough is enough, isn’t it? Willy and Wally never sued Bethlehem Apparatus for what happened to them (their illness and loss of jobs). After all Bethlehem Apparatus has done to these guys, do they really need to keep attacking them? Willy and Wally would like for the false claims against them to stop.



    Kate keeps mentioning “bad blood” and a “feud between torch manufacturers.” The only bad blood is on Bethlehem Apparatus’s side. Willy and Wally just want to be left alone and for the sniping to stop. They have no animosity towards Bethlehem Apparatus for the way they were treated and discharged. They are just happy that they were able to take a negative situation and turn it into a positive one.
    ~Kimberly
    oxygen concentrators and Momka's borosilicate glass
    Check out my YouTube Channel for videos of torches running on concentrators. I'm working on more, so stay tuned and keep checking.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tiverton, RI
    Posts
    565
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    not to shit on anything here but this is all inconclusive. what are you trying to accomplish?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,430
    Rep Power
    34

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    My condolences if this has effected your business. to my understanding, before any facebook beef got slung, was that willy and wally used to work at beth and left and started making torches and everything in between was sort of up for interpretation depending on who you talked to. Some people will inevitably have sour grapes and spread some rumors. Now with the internet it seems some voices have made some pretty bold claims that were once and better left to the imagination.

    All beef aside, I love my GTT and will always support their product as long as they operate under the same standards I have come to expect.
    Last edited by JBob; 04-06-2015 at 05:49 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,920
    Rep Power
    29

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    All that is water under the bridge. GTT is a top player if not the top player in the market.

    They dont need to prove anything to anybody, keep on making the rocking torches.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    1,386
    Rep Power
    39

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    One may get the idea from all this that the two W's walked away with Beth ideas and beat Beth to the triple mix patent punch. Personally, I doubt this.

    I've had numerous bethlehems including a very old one that looked like a finned slender cone. Thing about Beths is that they are all the same...standard surface mix, unique oxy and propane port face layout, manifold, some valves. I've used GTTs and went through their patent with a fine toothed comb. IMO, no way Willy and Wally stole any triple mix technology from Bethlehem...the two torch types are completely different, and there is no indication Bethlehem ever even thought of a triple mix concept. And valves are valves, so whether WW borrowed valve ideas is irrelevant. Now the GTT torch patent references a hydrogen port design that was the real precursor to the GTT triple mix torch patent, and that hydrogen jet patent was not a Bethlehem patent. Plus Beths have always been about low pressure whereas GTT torches thrive on high pressure. Beths are way closer in design to Carlisles and Nortel surface mixes than GTT triple mixes.

    So, in summary, who gives a shee-at whether W&W worked at Beth or not, what counts is the GTT torchs kick ass over most of the competition torches (there's a reason I got rid of my Beths and kept GTTs). As far as I am concerned, the two founders of GTT alone deserve ALL the credit for their torches' design, cooling system (simple and effective), development and refinement, performance, quality, and workmanship.
    Last edited by metalbone; 04-06-2015 at 05:48 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spatula City
    Posts
    2,421
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattypo View Post
    not to shit on anything here but this is all inconclusive. what are you trying to accomplish?
    I'm showing that contrary to Bethlehem Apparatus's claims, Willy and Wally did not quit. The documents I provided show that. Conclusively. It is my hope that Bethlehem Apparatus will finally stop their false claims once and for all.
    ~Kimberly
    oxygen concentrators and Momka's borosilicate glass
    Check out my YouTube Channel for videos of torches running on concentrators. I'm working on more, so stay tuned and keep checking.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    13,879
    Rep Power
    206

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    I'm curious:

    Who cares?

    I mean, outside the involved families... who cares?

    Seriously, is there _ANYONE_ here who cares about this other than "wait lemme get my popcorn"?

    Is there ANYONE here who has made their torch purchase decision based on 20+ year old employment drama?

    Is there a single person here who has ever had opportunity to gain any stake in either company whose choices would have been affected by this at all?

    All this does is bring facebook drama to the forum, and frankly that DOES matter, and I for one am not impressed.
    Doug Harroun
    Greymatter Glass
    Albuquerque, NM
    (505) 884-0318

    A̿̐͒ͥ̏̅͋ͤͮ́́̒͢͏̨͙̩̦͔̫̠̲̤ͅ ̑ͨ̎͆͐̉̍̐ͤͮͨ͐̇ͩͦ̏ͣ̚͏̷̶̭̝̠͓̞̱̭̫͙̜̮̫͔̤̱͕͢b̓̓ͭ̿̓ͥ̐̒͂͂ͧ ̡̓͋̐ͥ҉̧̹͎̺̳̩̬̘̯̮̜̼̻͝ͅē̵̹̯̦̟͔͊̓̔͗͊̀͆͗̀ͭͭ̀̇͋͋ͩ̓̓͞͞͞ ̘̰̘͈a̧̹͙͇̫̲̻̳̦̦͛͑͂̌̊́̌̂̅ͤ̿͠ͅų̷̶̡̺̤̳͐̂ͣ̋̀ͅͅt̍̀͋̽͗̚ ̶͎͎̳̤͈̘̞͕̣̲̣̼͙͎̬̪̜͎̯ͤ̃̈́ͬͧ͒͟͞͝͡iͪ̋̌̄̎ͪ́̚҉̶̰͎̣̥͉̙̘̬͝ ͍͈̻̻f̡̟̤̥̝̞̈̋ͧͮ̂ͣͬͨ͆͊̌̇ͨ̚͠͞u̵ͥͦ̑ͧ̆͂͐̊̏̍̋̓͗ͭͫ͆́̃͊͘̕ ̛̱̳͓̠͖̕ḹ̢̧̦̬̲̟̳̉ͯͫ̊̏ͪͫ͝ͅ ̵̺̫͙̗̦̠̯̞̫̪̩͐ͭͮ̏̓͒̏͊͋̚̚͘ͅḧ̨̛̭̼̘ͤͥ̿ͫ̊ͦͧͮͮ̀̓̔͌̉̓̀̀͡ ̺͚e̷̦̤̘̯͎̜͇͚͔̱̙͖ͪ͛ͤͮͬ͆͆̾̾͂̑͆̓͜ȧ̴̋ͨ͂ͣͬ̓̆͐̾̿̐̃̒͊͌́͝ ̷͇̮̙̗͉͍r̵̜̰̣̫͙̦̻̖͕͎̘̲̗̘ͦ̋̑̀̌̎̓ͭ̚͞tͨ̅̇͛ͫͫ̆ͪ̌͋ͩ̉ͯ͊͌̌ ̴̨̢̭͚̳̦͖̻̮̬̣̮̟͓͉̪͈̍ ̷̷̫̬͈͓̞͈̞̬̹̟̯͚̹͇̩̏͋ͬ̍͛̎̑̄̽ͦ̆̔̈́̀͆ͩ̓


    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spatula City
    Posts
    2,421
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Doug, to answer your question, yes. There's a reason they keep on repeating their misinformation.
    ~Kimberly
    oxygen concentrators and Momka's borosilicate glass
    Check out my YouTube Channel for videos of torches running on concentrators. I'm working on more, so stay tuned and keep checking.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auburn, MA
    Posts
    5,870
    Rep Power
    117

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
    Doug, to answer your question, yes. There's a reason they keep on repeating their misinformation.
    I think the point is that it matters to you, the W's and whats her name at Beth. That's about it.

    I liked the PMD2 after seeing Suellen use one in her video. That doesn't mean I can afford one (and they discontinued it, dang it).

    I like the GTT torches because there's a nice breadth of choices, but I can't afford one (aside from my teensy Cricket).


    But as for the behind the scenes drama, other than the aforementioned popcorn opportunity, it's not really anything I care about. It was just dragging drama from FB to here where Bethlehem may not even have someone on the member list to respond.

    Had you not brought it to light, I wouldn't have even known about her comments since I don't closely follow them on FB.
    Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around, and desert you.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    da great white nort
    Posts
    456
    Rep Power
    17

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    225
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    *facepalm*

    GTT should hire someone to help with PR and management on various aspects of their business. I love my Mirage, but good god, it's like the business is run by hillbillies.
    Josh
    Confessed compulsive glassturbator

    GTT Mirage, Homefill, top-loading/hand-roasting Paragon kiln

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Tiverton, RI
    Posts
    565
    Rep Power
    19

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Quote Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
    I'm showing that contrary to Bethlehem Apparatus's claims, Willy and Wally did not quit. The documents I provided show that. Conclusively. It is my hope that Bethlehem Apparatus will finally stop their false claims once and for all.
    You can't combine hearsay and documents and call it conclusive. Documents prove one thing, hearsay proves nothing. Not really any point now considering Willy and Wally have a great business and so does Beth and they both make great products. Let's use those products to make products, so people will buy products. I'm going to use some products right now...




  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spatula City
    Posts
    2,421
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    I posted this so it could be an end to the drama they keep bringing up. There are people over here that are not over on Facebook and I have had to address this issue over here in the past. I'm simply providing the documentation that puts an end to the he-said/she-said stuff and I provided the context of why it needed to be brought to light.

    There are people out there who are hostile towards people they feel are pirates. Just look at some of the old posts on here about that and you will know what I'm talking about. It's important to me to clear Willy and Wally of that accusation. It's an old accusation that keeps coming up over and over again and finally, it was made out in the open where I could see it and now address it with the documentation showing it to be false.
    ~Kimberly
    oxygen concentrators and Momka's borosilicate glass
    Check out my YouTube Channel for videos of torches running on concentrators. I'm working on more, so stay tuned and keep checking.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auburn, MA
    Posts
    5,870
    Rep Power
    117

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    I get where you're coming from, but in a week or so this thread will be buried and on it's way down the page count. Unless someone goes looking for it, it's likely to never see the light of day again once that happens. A handful of people will know it's here, and that's it.

    I'm not suggesting it, but if you want it out there and in folks face, you'd want to put it in a FAQ somewhere on the GTT site.

    While it's interesting from a public spectacle standpoint, and I'm as nosy as the next fella, stuff like this rarely helps any company's image.
    Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around, and desert you.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Spatula City
    Posts
    2,421
    Rep Power
    68

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Maybe the better alternative would have been to dig up the old History of GTT thread and post the "notice of determination" docs on there. At least if someone wants to know what really happened, they can find out.
    ~Kimberly
    oxygen concentrators and Momka's borosilicate glass
    Check out my YouTube Channel for videos of torches running on concentrators. I'm working on more, so stay tuned and keep checking.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    1,920
    Rep Power
    29

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    I am wanting a new Mirage, who's ass do I have to kiss to get one by the end of summer ?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Wow, they usually say that even bad press is good press, but this is just straigh up makes you guys look bad. Should have left this sort of crap on FB where the squabbleing belongs.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    221
    Rep Power
    16

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    So is this drama that's causing a 3-4+ yr wait on some of the torches gtt currently makes?.?..really that's all I care about. BOTTOM LINE gtt has been in business a for a time. If this were the case, Bethlehem would of sued the W's out of existence long ago and we would be using Bethlehem triple mix torches. End of story.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    287
    Rep Power
    21

    Default Re: GTT Sets the Record Straight

    Mirage is the best mid market torch ever! I made almost seventy thousand dollars on a national combo one year. I just bought a Bethleham bravo (great torch). Borosilicate companies have some sketchy past histories, and I will buy from every company and melt it all (unless manufactured by racists, homophobes, or sexists). I just do not give a fuck about politics of the past. I think everyone in the situation is doing okay or great or somewhere in between? So who cares

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Featured Member's Spotlight!
Pogo Blackfire Glassworks Wesley Fleming Whipkey Glass Bullet Proof Glass No Coast Glass
Donate to our forum!