This is hard to stomach

[PyroChixRock]

This is a very touchy subject and many of you are going to be upset, so I'm asking before we start discussing this to please keep in mind that respectful conversation is the only thing we ask of everyone here.

Please listen when you have time. Start with Episode 3, with Dave.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...077185038?mt=2

[GlassBBQ]

https://www.podcastchart.com/podcast...-manufacturing

Non-itunes link.

Listening to now.

[beamer]

Thanks Bud! B)

[Misfitman]

interesting podcast for us trying to find our way in this market!

[yinzer]

It's kind of hard for me to hear some of this stuff coming from one of my favorites, and somebody I have always held high on the respect latter. Also, the same guy that I've seen complaining on social media that people think he is ripping off a design that was actually his original design. Can't have it both ways, bud. I do, however respect that he is openly speaking about it, and probably shit his pants out of sheer nervousness.

It was not an easy listen. I'm assuming Dave Daily is abr dave? Only because I have heard most of his story before from others and I believe it was similar/the same. Obviously I was not very impacted by his presence in the industry, if I don't know his name...

[jusbag]

Is Dave abr Dave? He seems too young to me.

[PyroChixRock]

ABR dave is Dave Martin. I've heard Dave Daily before, but I can't figure out from where. There are so many of us now.

[yinzer]

Got ya. Then ya, obviously he wasn't a very big impact on me so I guess his actions don't bother me too bad. the other part hurts where my heart should be. However, I'm not a super anti-china person like most.

[MpVpRb]

Welcome to my world

I'm an electronic engineer, and noob, hobbyist glassworker

Electronic manufacturing in the US is very nearly extinct except for very specialized equipment

While it's true that Chinese factories can make top quality products, it's also really sad that we have abandoned domestic manufacturing

I could rant for hours about the problems I've had when my designs were produced in Asia

[Swim]

It was pretty interesting to say the least..... I do not think this guy is the only person responsible for imports if that is what people cant stomach. I use asian glass etc, as well lots of my customers also sell asian pipe, or indian pipes, I cant tell the difference. The only thing I found in the whole podcast that was somewhat offensive to me was how he used the attitude of the chinese as an excuse to go overseas with the products. I am sure anyone can have passion for feeding their family and making ends meet, the world over.... I dont think that is what anyone gets upset about. As far as the biting and copying designs... I make spoons, so what can I say, I am not sure who invented the spoon. Although I missed a few minutes here and there, I was given the imprssion that he paid royalties on the designs, which is pretty cool.

[Swim]

Good to know the rumors are true that grav is mostly made in china, I had no idea they shared realty with st.elmos though.... my customer that complains about gravlab the most is also a customer of salt and snic.... he must know they are under the same roof

[Sparko]

My only gripe is hell never put "made in china" on the pipes to inform the customer.

[Nomad]

For some reason I can't see the video on the phone.
But a lot of glass does have made in China stickers in the shop. They are crispy and leave residue when you take them off.

I heard snodgrass say once that bikers invented the spoon and he doesn't really make them.

[Nomad]

There is a really nice bubbler that is made in China at the shop for $50 retail . It is all reversals on it. But it is bet thin glass.
I can pick out the made in China because of this. The Indian ones have bad color combos. That is how I can tell. They are always orange and other colors. Plus the spoons are smaller now .
The tubes are a different story . I specialize in hand pipes.

[yinzer]

oh, its the gravlabs guy. as far as never putting a made in china sticker goes, im pretty sure they actually say made in usa. also, he makes himself sound like a total douche in this interview.

[PyroChixRock]

My gravlabs mini tube has two "made in usa" stickers on it.

[Wilbur]

Interesting listen for sure. If it's an older grav tube, it very well may have been USA made. I haven't seen any recent ones to know if they still mark them as USA mase. . They had a huge production shop before outsourcing, and is an interesting point that they did try to domestically outsource, with no one able ornwilling to deliver. Grav is not the only com

[Wilbur]

**not the only company who've had this issue. There's no doubt managing a huge production is extremely difficult, managing employees is difficult. I see be both sides of the argument, and understand their decision to outsource. I also think it's admirable dude has helped facilitate individual succes in his former production crew. And their quality control of pretty tight. Their China tubes are far superior to a lot of domestic work being turned out. And that's a factual statement. My biggest qualm with most imported glass is the signicant undercutting of price that wr are able make it for here, and as far as I know, grav still charges a relatively comparable wholesale price to their pieces as domestically made stuff, which gaiNs more points in my eyes. Indeed tough to stomach, but I do have more respect for grav after hearing this.

[PyroChixRock]

How much older? It is about 3 years old I think. I was sad when Deb told me those stickers were ...misplaced.

[Wilbur]

Not sure as to timeline specifically, and certainly don't condone blatant false advertising.

@yinzer- I disagree with him sounding like a total douche. He's well spoken, well versed, and has the experience and history to be speaking with some authority. whqt about this makes him sound like a douche? I'm interested to hear your perspective