This is hard to stomach

[Jimi The Don]

Keep this in mind: Dave (and Micah) knew that this podcast was going to be listened to.
Dave "admitting" that he outsources wasn't a revelation, people already knew. This was a planned conversation, not scripted per se, but planned. So I see it as I would a podcast with a politician, a way to spin it to hopefully add some justification for what was done.

Dave said it wasn't sustainable to keep buying lathes and hiring glassblowers; did he try working in shifts?
A lathe could be run all day in theory. Have two or three shifts a day, that allows you to produce 2 to 3 thymes as much product with about the same amount of equipment. And yeah, you bring someone in and teach them, then a year or two later after their starter dreads have set, and they're able to buy a torch of their own they run away, but there are always people looking for those jobs and some that will even welcome the security of it (if you treat them well) and will stay working there for years and years.
If someone had offered me that job in my mid twenties and treated me well, I'd still be doing that. Shit, if I was offered a job right now, wurking in someone else's facility, on a nice litton, 40 hours a week, making up lines and shit, I'd still fucking take it.
Admitting in this broadcast that they outsource wasn't a ballsy move, it was akin to damage control. It's a, "everybody knows, so let's address it to save some face" kinda thing, in my opinion anyway.
He knew that people would here it, Micah knew that too. Keep that in mind, every wurd you hurd in this podcast was thought about.

Labor could have been found domestically.
^^^^^^^^^TRUTH^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If he couldn't handle managing people and/or his business, then he should have paid someone else to manage.
And outsourcing wasn't to save any of the hassle, it was about money.

I have people ask me rather frequently if I have any wurk for them, and I'm just a doode in an old musty building making a handful of tubes a week of so. If I can find labor in Rhode Island, then he could have found it anywhere.
Once again, just my opinion, but I think it was about greed, nothing else.
Here's an interesting question: when the production was outsourced, becoming cheaper and increasing production: did the retail prices come down? I'd imagine not. So it wasn't about the consumer, or the Industry, it was about the money.

[Jackass Glass]

Yeah they could be paying 12 year olds 50 cents an hour like Nike does. Totally wrong!

i realize your being satirical but people actually think this still happens by the major corporations.

[Carl]

Who is currently pulling off "doing it right"? Anyone?

Anyone here running a 'high volume' competitive production facility with only american labor and still making a profit?

[D. dino i ninjah]

I know a guy who runs all american .. lathes like 5 of umm 2 3 bench guys .. all americans.. making a profit certainly .. getting rich ..not over night ..

I LISTENED TO 1/2 OF THAT INTERVIEW .( READ ADVERTISEMEMT) Its a blat3nt attempt of retoric and using big words and buisness terms to justify selling out our entire industry so a few guys can pad their retirement funds.

Did anyone else catch the name drop .. about Abe from northstar goin overseas .. I bet he knows more about that than most of us artists are being told ..

Ross from abr supposedly did this same shit in the early 2000 s with hand pipes .. alot of people are still buying their supplies from abr ..

I really had to turn it ..there is a point where dick head dave who ever he is says price isnt an object he wants quality work .. thats where u can tell hes a fuck en weasley snake .. because if price wasnt an object and u wanted to make peoples lives better with fair wages ..

Why the fuck wouldnt u do that shit here ?

There is no reason other than that u can get the work done cheeper in china ..

After that I realized everthing the guy said was an attempt to justifty bullshit morals .. buy useing economic terms ...

Micha Evans I hope they kidnap his ass in china and vhain him to a bench all day maken up lines .. so much respect lost

[D. dino i ninjah]

If u think this was an interview .. ur nuts .. there is no way your going to "interview" the guy cutten ur checks in an un biased manner. This is a fucking paid advertisment ..

[Jackass Glass]

I dont like seeing the US get undermined by other nations - but biz is biz - i hold no fault of any company who takes their manufacturing or sales force overseas. Now if they are an american company they should pay the income tax like my company does, but i have no issue with them employing in other countries.

[hashmasta-kut]

As long as it says made in China, and there is no false advertizing, its all good.

[PyroChixRock]

Because you don't actually have to manage them -- you have to manage the relationship with whoever runs the business. When you are directly managing people, if they get sick, it's your problem. If they come in drunk from lunch, it's your problem. If they're going through a messy divorce and are unable to do anything but weep, it's your problem. When I had to fire people -- people who *richly* deserved to be fired -- it still made me vomit for three days leading up to it. If you have people directly on your payroll, it adds a huge layer of expense just handling all the government paperwork required, and the accounting, and the insurance.

Outsourcing removes all of those things. It, of course, adds its own set of headaches, but I never lost a minutes' sleep over firing a vendor for non-performance. Firing that single mom that has been stealing out of petty cash, weeks of stress.

Outsourcing wasn't needed to remove those things. When I worked at JBD back in 97 and Jason needed help managing people, he hired Saeed, who came in and was our "problem solver" aka, CEO. He managed all the problems, and Jason continued to be the guy who smiled.

The only reason they went to China is $$$$$$$$.

[PyroChixRock]

As long as it says made in China, and there is no false advertizing, its all good.

My grav mini has 2 "made in usa" stickers on it. But after listening to the podcast and hearing all the info come forward from those in the know, I do not believe it was made in the usa. It's a great tube and I love it, but I don't think those stickers should be on it.

[themoch]

for a different view on the production aspect you can listen to Will talk about his production here in the US.

non-itunes
http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jaso...nzies-43814858

iTunes
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...367054894&mt=2

what you will notice is that he uses veterans for two reasons, they're disciplined (ie, not people who think glass is cool and have no work ethic), and as a way to give back. I see the discipline being the biggest hurdle to overcome. Most people who view making glass in the US are people who want to be in the glass culture and usually have a short shelf life in working for other people. The veterans (and crafts people) see it at a job which is something to be proud of and steady employment. I'm not saying that's every glass blower who's ever worked for someone else, but traditionally people who see it as a job and not a way of "glass life" last much much longer.

When trying to grow your business quickly I can see why someone would want to go overseas after having a few years of trying it in house with little sustainable success.

what you have to ask yourselves here is, "Am I upset because it's going to China/India or because it's not in America?"

Would you have a different attitude about it if it was Germany or New Zealand? Honestly think about it for a bit.

How are you going to feel when the inevitable happens and we get recreational country wide and large corporations start producing/importing/machine manufacturing glass at a scale like you've never seen or imagined?

You know how easy it would be to make a machine that makes a spoon?

Times are changing, our industry is changing, make sure you stand out. Those who stand out will endure. There will always be a market for local/hand/artisan - crafted items. Make sure you're doing everything you can to make yours the best.

[Nomad]

i realize your being satirical but people actually think this still happens by the major corporations.

Dude look up Nike on YouTube . There are videos of it.

[Jackass Glass]

Dude look up Nike on YouTube . There are videos of it.

seen a video with a unicorn in it once also... Fully agree this was a huge problem, but it isn't anymore. Not for the MAJORS. the smaller guys im sure 1000% still abuse.

There are reports and pictures and probably videos of apple abusing children and adults with too much overtime etc. its not true ( anymore ) to assemble iphones you are forced to scan your face and id badge... and if you have worked 6 days in a row or 60 hours.... the turnstyle doesn't open and you cant go to work.

like i said 1000% still happens. I just mean the nike / under armour / apples of the world. its too much of an open book to get away with it at their scale.

[Nomad]

I am in Atlantic city gambling. I got comped for hotel and dinner.
I will be back at the studio tomorrow. I can talk then.
Peace

[Nomad]

I am only down $80.... Poker is my game!
Last night I was killing it at Caesars .

[Jimi The Don]

Not entirely true
Large corporations like Nike and apple can still get around these newer regulations by outsourcing their work as well
There are production facilities in these countries that are not regulated that will make parts for these companies, so then Apple can buy the components from these unregulated facilities, and assemble them at their regulated facilities without having to be accountable

[Jimi The Don]

And yeah, if an American company sends production to any country other than this one, then I have a problem with that.
There's a difference when it cums to raw materials being imported, or importing crafts from a country where they're made
(German cars, afghan rugs, heroin). But if you're running an American company and you ship your production overseas, then I'm not a proponent of your business practices.

[Jimi The Don]

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, I'll state that before someone spends an hour googling so that they can find an example just to pick apart what I said

[Jackass Glass]

Not entirely true
Large corporations like Nike and apple can still get around these newer regulations by outsourcing their work as well
There are production facilities in these countries that are not regulated that will make parts for these companies, so then Apple can buy the components from these unregulated facilities, and assemble them at their regulated facilities without having to be accountable

thats exactly my point. 5-10 years ago. absolutely. now the supply chain is watched by international agencies from top to bottom.

as always if you dont like where the product comes from, dont buy it right?

[Jimi The Don]

http://www.cnet.com/news/low-wages-a...s-labor-group/

Just from October

[Jimi The Don]

http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-supplie...supply-2320357

February of this year