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Thread: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

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    Default I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    After being a member of the Melting Pot for about 2 years I've formed the interpretation that most of the members are either long-time, HIGHLY skilled artists -OR- artists trying to perfect their skill and trying to make a good, honest living creating art in their own way. I sell phone systems for a living basically. My business partner from 15 years ago told me his wife was looking into 'blowing glass" and asked for my input based upon creating a business model.

    My guess is most people here could only give 2 shits about the business end beyond artistic ability and blowing glass, which is kinda my point in my response to him and his wife.

    Even if my opinions are just plain stupid to you all I'd love to hear your opinions. Especially since this is advice I've actually given to a very successful couple. By the way, his wife is very well educated and already has a full-time career with benefits, great pay, etc:



    There is very little science within the industry. several major manufacturers were shut down for creating cadmium (google bullseye glass shut down). I think had the very large glass company had an educated scientist they could have prevented a lot of layoffs. My point being, Science is missing from this industry.
    Lack of any type of progressive thinking in a mostly old-timer based industry. People listen to the old timers and take what they hear as gospel. It doesn't matter if it defy's logic, only matters if the old-timers say it. Once technology and the new artists make a name for themselves completely (in the next 5 years or less) this will change which makes it the perfect opportunity for ANY new way to do business that deals with the artists.
    The industry as far as glassblowers is so ripe that if I was not dealing with Musical Phones I would have a full time job today selling something or creating something that is sold to glassblowers.
    If you are a real fucking artist then you can succeed in making a good or decent living blowing glass. It is VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind that if you want to blow glass for a living that you need to find something that you can do better than anyone else AND find a way to market it.
    Keeping in mind that if you choose to try to make money from blowing glass you will be competing from any schmuck who smokes weed and wants to learn how to blow a pipe.
    There aren't a lot of entrepreneurs that make their living in the glass industry blowing glass. They have either found a niche within the industry
    You can hire a glassblower that will make and anneal production parts for you to your specifications. Point being if you find something you LOVE then you can source the glass and a glassblower with a lathe to create your bongs or pipes for LESS THAN $40.00 per hour.
    If you want to make money making pipes then selling them I'd suggest finding a way to market the pipes and finding low-budget artists to make them. Much less time has been spent on finding a way to market the new glass-blowers products to help them become a famous artist. If, by chance, and your true interest in glass in making money (and can tell everyone your only real interest is in helping the artists) then we can develop a marketing strategy that is killer. We can be partners and split the profits, knowledge. ;-)
    The custom glass industry is basically untouched since plastic or pressed metal replaced glass for everything from door knobs to kitchen cabinet drawer handles. There is a very underdeveloped market in bringing art to the people. Meaning when you decorate someone's house you could include custom artesian built handles on their kitchen cabinets that match their light plate switches, interior door knobs, outlet plates, stove and oven knobs, toilet switch plate, door handles and skylight. There are so many markets within the industry it's incredible!
    A company could become a brand name by finding a way to take things like vac seal, millie and lampworking into a design format that blends a person's home with their design format & color.
    3d printing: There are numerouts types of 3d printing and glass can be printed. It's a developing format but, kinda like developing a dialer that will allow someone to press 1 to be connected to an agent it's a format that could be converted (in it's infancy) into artist tools like pre-formed blanks vs a tube of 33 COE 45mm heavy walled tubing that will reguire a lathe and several hours of time to convert into a bong. Point being it creates a piece of glass that any dude can create into a bong without him having to buy a $24,000 lathe.
    If you are concerned with making a living with glass associated with lampworking then do not consider any glass with a higher number of COE than 33 which, converted to lampworking language, is the the same as Pyrex.
    My last few points got deleted as I was pasting this link. They were some major, deep points but here was the point I was working on: https://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...t-material-yet
    You can consider quartz glass as it is in-between boroslicate (33 coe) and the latest and greatest metallic glass.
    You might even want to include clear aluminum in your searches although I'm not familiar with the chemical properties involved in the process.
    Most of the artists I have ran across are more concerned with tried and trued designs than helping create a new artistic format

    Thankfully since my artistic ability is as far away from glass as you can imagine and this email was directed towards someone who already makes a full-time living with insurance, etc looking for a business opportunity not a career in blowing glass I'd love to hear the perspective of the artists in this forum.

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    "There is very little science within the industry. several major manufacturers were shut down for creating cadmium (google bullseye glass shut down). I think had the very large glass company had an educated scientist they could have prevented a lot of layoffs. My point being, Science is missing from this industry." - In my opinion, this is incorrect, and fairly condescending. There are -LOTS- of scientists in the industry, just look at Alfred University. Bullseye likely employed such people. There are currently allegations and a lawsuit that allege Bullseye was unfairly targeted. I believe Misha posted a link to an article a week ago or so.

    The 3d printing thing - yeah, I've seen glass used in 3d printing, but i don't think you will be making anything significant with that method and boro, at least not anytime soon. Auto lathes are hard enough to program and get to produce parts consistently and correctly. (you should see the nightmare caused when brands of clear are switched in an autolathe department!) I doubt 3d printing with a low COE will produce very good results. I just cant imagine someone 3d printing blanks (If i am following your idea correctly), and turning a good profit on it. Why do you think people don't sell blanks now?

    Besides, part of the value in doing all of the prep steps is developing the skills to successfully create a piece. If a glassblower bought all of their blanks premade from you, stringers pre pulled, ect, they probably would lack the skills to do anything with those materials (if they always just bought this stuff rather than making it). Also, is your line of thinking that if you sell large blanks, you will make something available to people without lathes that otherwise isn't? ("Point being it creates a piece of glass that any dude can create into a bong without him having to buy a $24,000 lathe.") If so, I'd have to disagree. Although making large pieces without a lathe might be difficult, there are lots of tools and techniques to overcome this. Rollers would be one way to easily make large blanks at the bench. I've seen plenty of people handle up to 44mm at the bench. I also helped someone pull a point on 110mm spontaneously (He yelled my name, i ran over, and we heated and pulled it, on the fly), but it was at the bench. If you meant to say your blanks would be preshaped bong bodies, i think this is even more unrealistic for 3D printed glass. lots of those designs require multiple steps in a specific order, essentially, they require being shaped one step at a time.

    There are several beadmakers who lampwork with soda lime glass, as well as an entire community of artists who make a living with the Japanese soft glass (I can't remember what it's called....but it looks awesome). I'm not sure how profitable glasses other than boro are (because i lack experience with them myself), but others seem to do well, and lots of people make money in soft glass (although many are not lampworkers). Lots of Italian guys who sell VERY expensive soft glass lampworked pieces. Paul Stankard also sells soft glass lampworked pieces for well into the 5 figure range.

    As far as quartz being between the new metallic glass you linked and boro - sort of, depending on what property you are comparing. This point feels moot to me because you are kind of glossing over one of the biggest reasons we use quartz or borosillicate. It isn't specifically for it's durability (although thermal shock durability is certainly a factor). The fact that the glass is chemically inert is much more significant, as far as it's technological value is concerned. This seems difficult to relate to the metallic glass you linked.

    Despite the "degenerate" side of glass, there is a massive industry here as well (specifically, a scientific industry). My own personal interests are much more geared to the chemistry of glass than the art. I like where they come together (particularly, fumework), but the science is every bit as amazing to me as the colors produced. Lots of people are working to push glass as a material (how do you think the new metallic glass you linked came to be?). These people are not on instagram posting 3x a day with popular pipe hashtags, they are not getting published on the cover of your favorite weed magazine, they are at Alfred, or Rakow, studying and pushing the envelope in a lab, like any other material. But even on the artistic side....GA alone brought out like 17 colors to their palette this year. northstar brought out even more. We saw a rise of an entire UV palette this year, and Greasy started producing polychromatic glass (what, 5 different shades for a single color?). 20 years ago we had what.....10 colors that still had metal wires in them? 30 years ago no one was making boro color besides John Burton and his students. This entire industry has developed since then. It seems unreasonable to say that "science is missing from this industry" considering all of this stuff. What about all the proprietary knowledge that companies like Chemglass possess about Chemistry?

    I mean this in a non-confrontational way, but it seems as though you have looked at glass with the smallest lens possible. You are looking at a small part of the overall glass industry (the glass pipe/ glass art side) and judging them on their scientific contributions (which absolutely exist), but ignoring the scientific side of the industry where what you seek can be found.

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Would love to add more, but Mr. P covered it all pretty thoroughly. May be a rather useless post, but I wanted to throw a thumbs up to his response

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    You deff have not done much research .

    Tons of legit business minded folk here .

    Lots of hobbie folk that go for fun .

    As said by a great glass blower in slightly diff works .


    Our industry is being sprayed with a firehose of cash these days .

    Still true , although more people than ever are doing it now with lots of skill and motivation .

    Lots have gotten cofortable marking a set thing for a set price and are feeling a bite because of competition branding and the headshops are kinda faunchy about artist selling direct . In fact some shops are boycotting artist who sell direct .


    It's a fast moving field with many facets including Facet making .

    One thing is for sure your not using the search here .

    Try it most of your questions even the legit business ones have hundreds of informative threads here about all you ask or question.


    Welcome to the industry .

    Have fun and support your locals yo !
    Lampworking the road that never ends, Until your out of gas!

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    I'll add to this that, I would not, nor would any of my friends, take a job on for less than 40 an hour.
    Without love in the dream
    It will never come true

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    1600$ a week....huh...smfh

    Yeah, sure.

    Lmfao

    And is that weekly, bi weekly, or just wait around and hope weekly...
    don't wash your hands with your sammich.
    naive
    *of or denoting art produced in a straightforward style that deliberately rejects sophisticated artistic techniques and has a bold directness resembling a child's work, typically in bright colors with little or no perspective.

    your linework is naive maybe try some fuming?
    GTT Phantom on Homefill
    first time on torch 07'

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass View Post
    My business partner from 15 years ago told me his wife was looking into 'blowing glass" and asked for my input based upon creating a business model..
    You're rather misinformed on the industry as a whole... maybe pass that request on to someone who works with glass instead of someone who makes all business assumptions from discussions on a forum
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    You just don't get it
    get heady

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Last time i made business decisions solely based on assumptions from a discussion forum i ended up in Florida selling mood stabilizers for alligators.

    But i think you gota love glass to be in this industry. Your friends should sell all natural supplements or something.

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Last time i made business decisions solely based on assumptions from a discussion forum i ended up in Florida selling mood stabilizers for alligators.

    But i think you gota love glass to be in this industry. Your friends should sell all natural supplements or something.
    lmao is this true?

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    so this lady has a good paying job with benefits and...

    is the first bit of advice you gave her "dont quit your day job"?

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    Default

    This was my favorite quote:
    "There is very little science within the industry. "

    Umm scientific glassware is where this movement started. If it wasn't for science we wouldn't have borosilicate glass.

    You need to do more research

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    if it wasnt for borosillicate glass, we wouldnt have science.

    also, what the hell does any of this have to do with palladium, i thought there was going to be something interesting in here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shattered Dreams View Post
    if it wasnt for borosillicate glass, we wouldnt have science. .
    This is my second favorite quote. You need to do a little more research also.

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    you talking to me?
    i only mean that many of the advancements in science were made possible by the use of borosillicate glass.

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    meanwhile the OP hasnt been back since he posted this. lol

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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Oh lordy.... look who's back. Back again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    After being a member of the Melting Pot for about 2 years I've formed the interpretation that most of the members are either long-time, HIGHLY skilled artists -OR- artists trying to perfect their skill and trying to make a good, honest living creating art in their own way.
    I'd say we're about 20% disgruntled old timers who can barely hack it with glass, 30% hyped up kids who learned all there was to learn about glass in a week on Facebook, and 50% Indian SEO spam bots.

    No, all jokes aside I think I can see that opinion formed from a cursory glance at posts here, but there's a lot more complexity to it, and for every member you see posting some drivel about their latest philosophy on the state of the glass world there's 5 people lurking who have been at this longer than most of these kids have been alive. I would say that MOST of the "long-time, HIGHLY skilled artists" are the very ones "trying to perfect their skill and trying to make a good, honest living" it has nothing to do with how long you've been working with a torch, it's much more complicated than that. There's a post here about how people make their money, most of the old timers I know have, or have had, real jobs through much of their professional glass career.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    My guess is most people here could only give 2 shits about the business end beyond artistic ability and blowing glass, which is kinda my point in my response to him and his wife.
    That's some bad advice bucko. Yeah, it's true a lot of artists suck at business, and have either no desire to learn, or are content just being artists.... but never judge a book by it's cover. I've met plenty of dudes with giant beards, matted up dreads, torn shirts, and MBA degrees. I can't say what percentage of glass artists know about business... it's not great, but again I think that holds true of most industries, especially craft/trade industries. The reality is, if you're good with business, and have talent with glass it's one of the few art mediums where there are living artists making a living wage income, that's great. But don't come in thinking you're some wizz kid who's gonna show up the entire industry - you still have to work for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Even if my opinions are just plain stupid to you all I'd love to hear your opinions. Especially since this is advice I've actually given to a very successful couple. By the way, his wife is very well educated and already has a full-time career with benefits, great pay, etc:
    For a plethora of reasons, unless they have serious savings and want to lose those benefits, glass probably won't compare. Glass is like the music industry, we're all looking for gigs, some of us may get to tour a bit and live high for a while riding talent on the backs of others.... it's rare that one becomes a rockstar without hard work, lots of sacrifice, and tons of personal compromise. And when they get there, it's just a longer way to fall, which usually happens sooner or later.


    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    There is very little science within the industry.
    This is one of the most scientifically driven artistic "industries" going at the moment. But ok...

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    several major manufacturers were shut down for creating cadmium (google bullseye glass shut down).
    They weren't creating cadmium, it's a natural element, it comes from the dirt. And they weren't "shut down" every single one of them kept producing glass color without cadmium during the entire period where the OR-EPA and Federal EPA sat down and really figured out what was going on. Bullseye is a company that was in a lot of trouble before this started, they were likely going to lay people off soon anyways. Northstar took the time to move and significantly upgrade their facility, GA has been undergoing significant changes as well for the last 3 years or so... cadmium did't shut anyone down, and what jobs it cost were probably already on the cutting board... Cadmium was an opportunity for glass color companies to justify capital expenditure and fueled a revival of science in glass.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    I think had the very large glass company had an educated scientist they could have prevented a lot of layoffs.
    I disagree strongly. Most glass companies are currently expanding. The whole cadmium thing was regulatory. Science had nothing to do with it. All these glass companies (except Bullseye) were in, or believed to be in, compliance with the regulatory framework that existed at the time. The issues with Bullseye, which was really a targeted smear campaign as much as anything else, forced some new regulatory measures and in the long run was probably good for the planet, but it did NOT come about because of lack of scientific understanding at glass companies. It was purely regulatory compliance issues. Scientists work with dangerous and toxic chemicals all the time, and ethical ones attempt to comply with regulatory standards... but even a PhD chemist who misinterprets the standards, or accidentally transposes a decimal point, can be in violation without any intent or malice.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    My point being, Science is missing from this industry.
    That's your opinion. As someone who's been in this industry 18 years I think that Science is leading the industry.

    Now I guess we can have a conversation on what "science" is. Is it a degree? A process? A practice? I wuld say Practice and Process FAR outweigh a degree. But you want degrees? Ok, Momka Peeva, she's not only got a degree in glass science, she wrote a book that is foundational to the glass color industry. Milos Bohuslav Volf wrote a series of highly scientific and technical books that are really only of real value to someone who can read them... and I can all but promise you that every color company has at least a copy of Chemical Approach to Glass. There are papers and books published by Corning and Schott that are highly technical in nature that lend to the scientific approach to glass forming. If an artist has the capacity to read and understand those documents and put the theory into practice to modify glasses in planned and (somewhat) predictable ways, I would call that science.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Lack of any type of progressive thinking in a mostly old-timer based industry.
    HAHAHAHA. I can count on one hand the people in my town who have been on the torch over 18 years (i.e. the people who were doing this when I started) ... new kids? I can't keep track of them all. And there's some amazing talent among them that puts the old guys to shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    People listen to the old timers and take what they hear as gospel. It doesn't matter if it defy's logic, only matters if the old-timers say it.
    Says the guy who doesn't blow glass and has been around here two years? I call bullshit on this as well. But really, who do you expect to learn from? One of the biggest flaws in this industry is what I call "the idiot parade" where you have someone who buys a torch, takes a class, gets frustrated that they're not instant masters, and so start offering to teach other people to blow glass all inside a year or two.

    E.g. Bobby sees a documentary on glass pipes and watches literally hundreds of years of talent doing their things, making this look easy - Bobby sees they all use $$$$ big torches.
    Bobby rushes out and buys a GTT Delta Mag, $1,000 worth of tools, places an order for a thousand dollars of hype color and big tubing... and sets up in his garage.... and...nothing. Can't just snap his fingers and make it work...
    "Ok" says Bobby, I just need to find one of those artists from the video, and they'll teach me... so he pays $5k to go to Oregon and take a class with someone who's making money in the videos.
    Now he learned ALL the high end wiggity woos, and inclampos, and sick opel tekz, he's a glass sculpting god for 3 days.
    Goes home... lights his torch... forgot to take notes, didn't build a foundation, spent the last half of every day dabbing his brains to mush, and doesn't have his shop set up right, or the right glass and tools... it's just not the same...
    So, in frustration, he puts up an ad on IG or FB or something offering "glass classes" and gets local kids to pay him $200 each to "learn from the guy who learned from that guy in the videos"
    It's a mess, but the new kids go away feeling awed, they just witnessed someone who - because they have all the big torches and tools, and took classes from big names - has clearly made it and know what's what....
    And they go out into the world, and the cycle repeats itself.

    The guys at the top of this game, those that are willing to teach, have an opportunity cost to factor in. It's often not worth it. There's a lot of trolling to be sure. The lessons you can learn in a 2-3 day class are limited in scope. And even the guys at the top have bad habits. Old timers aren't perfect. I do things with my torch and glass I would NEVER encourage others to do, and I know are the wrong way from point A to B, but it's what I know and it gets me there.... sometimes someone will watch me, and assume I'm right.... NEVER assume. I don't teach much because I don't feel I have a skill set that's comprehensive enough, and "right" for teaching. I'm very much a "Do as I say, not as I do" type, and I think that's common in the glass industry.

    But in general, old timers ARE right, or at least they have the time in the game and success and experience to say "maybe this isn't right, but it'll get you there" and someone else can and does come along to find a better way - there's no harm in that. Look at all these old farts who made their name making glass sculpture and putting it in high end art galleries for decades, they're chomping at the bit trying to learn to make pipes, and the ones teaching them, some of them were born well after they were already a commercial success in glass. Talent begets talent, age and time in isn't the only factor. The biggest echo chambers of bad advice I see are on social media - including this forum - where you have inexperienced people laying out bad information.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Once technology and the new artists make a name for themselves completely (in the next 5 years or less) this will change which makes it the perfect opportunity for ANY new way to do business that deals with the artists.
    I mean, this makes no sense? What new technology? What new artists? The glass industry is dynamic and there's constantly new technology and new artists entering and exiting frequently... did I miss a great innovation or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    The industry as far as glassblowers is so ripe that if I was not dealing with Musical Phones I would have a full time job today selling something or creating something that is sold to glassblowers.
    But you clearly don't believe that because if you did you'd be doing it, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    If you are a real fucking artist then you can succeed in making a good or decent living blowing glass.
    That's laughably untrue, and certainly not exclusive to glass art. Some of the most amazing talent in the world will never be discovered, never attempt to self promote. You dismiss the rest of the world around us that tries to ruin every opportunity. What about drugs? What about unplanned family tragedy? What about lack of access? Some of the biggest names in the art world (not just glass) are there because they are of mediocre talent, and extraordinary connections.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    It is VERY IMPORTANT to keep in mind that if you want to blow glass for a living that you need to find something that you can do better than anyone else AND find a way to market it.
    Or just find something you can make faster, and cheaper if not better. Or just market the hell out of it. Or be in the right place at the right time. Or find a niche demand and supply it regionally. I have a guy in my shop who could give just about anyone else in this town a run for the money on high end pipes... but he makes $4 production spoons all day long.... because that's his market, and he's fast, and cheap. He'll take a sure $400 day over a month long hustle to sell a $2,000 piece any day. Not saying he can't and doesn't do both... but you get the point I think.


    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Keeping in mind that if you choose to try to make money from blowing glass you will be competing from any schmuck who smokes weed and wants to learn how to blow a pipe.
    No. You won't. I sell glass to these people. They never last long. EVERY summer i get new kids fresh out of school buying a torch, setting up, and burning out by winter. If you want to get started and make janky ass $2 productions that cost you $3 to make... yes, you'll have a lot of fierce competition. Marijuana and art have a long history together, don't disparage one for the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    There aren't a lot of entrepreneurs that make their living in the glass industry blowing glass.
    Dude, google "Entrepreneur" "a person who organizes and operates a business or businesses, taking on greater than normal financial risks in order to do so." I mean, that's anyone that buys $5k worth of equipment before they have an order for $5k worth of product. If you make your living with glass, you are the very deffiition


    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    You can hire a glassblower that will make and anneal production parts for you to your specifications.
    Yeah, that's how pipes are made... they make a part and anneal it, then get paid for the labor and skill... what's your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Point being if you find something you LOVE then you can source the glass and a glassblower with a lathe to create your bongs or pipes for LESS THAN $40.00 per hour.
    Yes, there are certainly both domestic and Foreign production facilities that produce glass things. See also: iPhones, Beer Bottles, Lighters, Contact lenses, etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    If you want to make money making pipes then selling them I'd suggest finding a way to market the pipes and finding low-budget artists to make them.
    You're not the first one to think of becoming a distributor. You need a lot of capital, as well as connections to the industry, to succeed at that level. You can import pipes from Asia, or you can get in a white HHR panel van and spend a month away from your family driving coast to coast moving glass around, or you can put up big money to do trade shows and hope the buyers come to you... either way you'll have a LOT of skin in the game and better hope you don't piss someone off or you'll eat every last cent. In 18 years I've seen a lot of million dollar distributors burn out, go bust, go to jail, or just peace out at the top - and just as many are still hustling. There's a lot of competition for you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Much less time has been spent on finding a way to market the new glass-blowers products to help them become a famous artist.
    I think most artists, and by artists, I mean professional artists who do this for a living, agree that there's already too many glass shows and "distributors" trying to "make new artists famous" by exploiting their talent and product. It sounds like that's your idea... and ...just.....well, whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    If, by chance, and your true interest in glass in making money (and can tell everyone your only real interest is in helping the artists) then we can develop a marketing strategy that is killer.
    There it is folks the old "I'm gonna use my money and brains to exploit artists for profit, I'm such a good guy for helping out these kids"

    Dude, you're about 20 years late to the party _I'M_ at, and I'm pretty sure the people I know learned it from people that did it to them once upon a time.


    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    The custom glass industry is basically untouched since plastic or pressed metal replaced glass for everything from door knobs to kitchen cabinet drawer handles.
    You're confusing your lack of knowledge of a multi billion dollar industry with reality. plastic and metal replaced glass in consumer items because they're more durable, cheaper, and easier to make than comparable glass parts. Consumers WANT Walmart in their towns, not Willams Sonoma.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    There is a very underdeveloped market in bringing art to the people. Meaning when you decorate someone's house you could include custom artesian built handles on their kitchen cabinets that match their light plate switches, interior door knobs, outlet plates, stove and oven knobs, toilet switch plate, door handles and skylight.
    I mean, I'm, starting top think you've never seen Etsy? Google that one, it'll BLOW.YOUR.MIND. The market isn't underdeveloped, it OVERDEVELOPED and imploded when cheaper sources of durable goods entered the market. 80 years ago the bleeding edge of technology was vacuum tube transistor circuits, they all needed glass. Now you can fit a billion transistors inside even the smallest of glass tube transistors from back then. The technology still exists, and there's still demand for tube transistors... but it's never going to be what it used to be. Plastics and ceramics have replaced countless products that were once made with glass... you can't put that genie back in it's bottle. It's not under developed, it's past tense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    There are so many markets within the industry it's incredible!
    I know right?! That's why it's a multi trillion dollar global industry lead by some of the largest corporations in the history of the planet! HOORAY!

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    A company could become a brand name by finding a way to take things like vac seal, millie and lampworking into a design format that blends a person's home with their design format & color.
    *bangs head on keyboard* fghjknmklymjgh .... dude. Look. It's being done. Just because you're not seeing it doesn't mean it's not right in front of your face. It's not a matter of market penetration. Glass is expensive. People with talent know what their talent is worth in large enough numbers that the pool that you can exploit is small, and mostly based in Asia. There's already people in Asia exploiting it. Go to any high end home design center, you'll see glass everywhere. You want to pay even more than that? You want to build truely unique one off designs for multi million dollar custom homes? There's people doing that. It's not cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    3d printing: There are numerouts types of 3d printing and glass can be printed. It's a developing format but, kinda like developing a dialer that will allow someone to press 1 to be connected to an agent it's a format that could be converted (in it's infancy) into artist tools like pre-formed blanks vs a tube of 33 COE 45mm heavy walled tubing that will reguire a lathe and several hours of time to convert into a bong. Point being it creates a piece of glass that any dude can create into a bong without him having to buy a $24,000 lathe.
    Futurism is fun. My brother is at the top of the 3D printed art world in terms of skill and product.... but can't find the market to sell his work. Glass 3d printers... year SOMEDAY they will have a place in common glass shops...but I've looked at the technology in depth, and right now, there's NOTHING on the horizon that will compete with hand made glass art in terms of clarity, durability, complexity, variation of material, and time to produce. We can talk about what may be all day long, but in the mean time, most of us have bills to pay.


    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    If you are concerned with making a living with glass associated with lampworking then do not consider any glass with a higher number of COE than 33 which, converted to lampworking language, is the the same as Pyrex.
    Dude, no one uses Pyrex. Boro, that's the term. And I mean, yeah, I would say about 80% of my collection is boro, but some of the most amazing pieces I own, some of the most valuable, are all soft glass - 90, 96, 104, 120(ish). Don't be a glassist. Glass is glass is glass. In talented hands it all has value. There's pros and cons to all artistic mediums... go tell someone who paints in oils that they should stop, acrylics is where it's at now. Your position is asinine bordering on insulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    My last few points got deleted as I was pasting this link. They were some major, deep points but here was the point I was working on: https://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...t-material-yet
    You can consider quartz glass as it is in-between boroslicate (33 coe) and the latest and greatest metallic glass.
    You might even want to include clear aluminum in your searches although I'm not familiar with the chemical properties involved in the process.
    See above re: Futurism.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Most of the artists I have ran across are more concerned with tried and trued designs than helping create a new artistic format
    Most artists I know are interested in (in order):

    Paying their bills.
    Exploring new ideas.

    There's often time for both. It can take an artist years to establish a new technique and perfect it for the public. I was just recently talking to a guy I know who, one night just having fun, decided to try something he thought might be possible, a few weeks later and it was! He made something amazing! It blew up on social media, there's thousands of shared videos or it now... he took it to the pipe shows, and people loved it... two things happened.

    First, he got more orders for this thing than he can possibly fill in a reasonable amount of time.
    Second, people started copying him from day one.

    So in the first case, great - something new, innovation! Just what you seem to think doesn't exist in glass. Should he just ignore the profits he could make and move on to the next new thing, or should he capitalize on his innovation and use it to make some money for a while?

    In the second situation, as an artist it can be very discouraging to see something that you spent a lot of time and effort on designing and perfecting copied by people who have no respect or consideration for the talent that made it, and just want to make the same thing and sell it cheaper. It makes you ask if it's worth it to innovate, or should you just stick with what sells?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksglass
    Thankfully since my artistic ability is as far away from glass as you can imagine and this email was directed towards someone who already makes a full-time living with insurance, etc looking for a business opportunity not a career in blowing glass I'd love to hear the perspective of the artists in this forum.
    I think you've done your friend a disservice by filling their head will all kinds of half truths, misinformation, flawed logic, and opinion expressed as fact. If this is a person that's important to you, and you think they may actually act on what you've said, you might want to point them to this thread, and this forum, and let them do their own research. Which, if they're smart, they would do anyways... so not TOO worried there.

    I think you should stick with phones, and lurk more.
    Doug Harroun
    Greymatter Glass
    Albuquerque, NM
    (505) 884-0318

    A̿̐͒ͥ̏̅͋ͤͮ́́̒͢͏̨͙̩̦͔̫̠̲̤ͅ ̑ͨ̎͆͐̉̍̐ͤͮͨ͐̇ͩͦ̏ͣ̚͏̷̶̭̝̠͓̞̱̭̫͙̜̮̫͔̤̱͕͢b̓̓ͭ̿̓ͥ̐̒͂͂ͧ ̡̓͋̐ͥ҉̧̹͎̺̳̩̬̘̯̮̜̼̻͝ͅē̵̹̯̦̟͔͊̓̔͗͊̀͆͗̀ͭͭ̀̇͋͋ͩ̓̓͞͞͞ ̘̰̘͈a̧̹͙͇̫̲̻̳̦̦͛͑͂̌̊́̌̂̅ͤ̿͠ͅų̷̶̡̺̤̳͐̂ͣ̋̀ͅͅt̍̀͋̽͗̚ ̶͎͎̳̤͈̘̞͕̣̲̣̼͙͎̬̪̜͎̯ͤ̃̈́ͬͧ͒͟͞͝͡iͪ̋̌̄̎ͪ́̚҉̶̰͎̣̥͉̙̘̬͝ ͍͈̻̻f̡̟̤̥̝̞̈̋ͧͮ̂ͣͬͨ͆͊̌̇ͨ̚͠͞u̵ͥͦ̑ͧ̆͂͐̊̏̍̋̓͗ͭͫ͆́̃͊͘̕ ̛̱̳͓̠͖̕ḹ̢̧̦̬̲̟̳̉ͯͫ̊̏ͪͫ͝ͅ ̵̺̫͙̗̦̠̯̞̫̪̩͐ͭͮ̏̓͒̏͊͋̚̚͘ͅḧ̨̛̭̼̘ͤͥ̿ͫ̊ͦͧͮͮ̀̓̔͌̉̓̀̀͡ ̺͚e̷̦̤̘̯͎̜͇͚͔̱̙͖ͪ͛ͤͮͬ͆͆̾̾͂̑͆̓͜ȧ̴̋ͨ͂ͣͬ̓̆͐̾̿̐̃̒͊͌́͝ ̷͇̮̙̗͉͍r̵̜̰̣̫͙̦̻̖͕͎̘̲̗̘ͦ̋̑̀̌̎̓ͭ̚͞tͨ̅̇͛ͫͫ̆ͪ̌͋ͩ̉ͯ͊͌̌ ̴̨̢̭͚̳̦͖̻̮̬̣̮̟͓͉̪͈̍ ̷̷̫̬͈͓̞͈̞̬̹̟̯͚̹͇̩̏͋ͬ̍͛̎̑̄̽ͦ̆̔̈́̀͆ͩ̓


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  17. #17
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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Dang, it’s good to see you again Doug!
    I do what I know, I don't know what I'm doing

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I still haven't learned to build a pipe but just learned about palladium.

    Jesus Christ wtf did I just attempt to read.../: :0
    don't wash your hands with your sammich.
    naive
    *of or denoting art produced in a straightforward style that deliberately rejects sophisticated artistic techniques and has a bold directness resembling a child's work, typically in bright colors with little or no perspective.

    your linework is naive maybe try some fuming?
    GTT Phantom on Homefill
    first time on torch 07'

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