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Thread: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

  1. #121
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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    I got involved with 3d printing a few years ago and got my first ever "real" job at an engineering company within a month of having my son 2 1/2 years ago. I love art and glassblowing but as many people here know being dependent on glass for money is not only difficult, but it also sucks the fun out of it. Taking a shot and applying for this job was a great decision monetarily and mentally. After years alone in the studio beating myself up its nice to have a structured team and do what your told without having to think too hard or be too personally invested in it like running a glass shop. Glass materials are expensive!!! I am just a technician not making great money but is consistent instead of having to wait to chase some Instagram kid or store down for your cash. I think the market itself is part of the problem. "potheads" are not exactly the most reliable or well off group of people out there. Stores are great, but they are struggling with the same issues with instagram, imports etc and cant support every glassblower on the block. Its hard to put faith in that for the future.

    Hope this wasn't negative its not meant to be. Diversify. Follow Dreams. Get Educated. There are plenty of glassblowers who will make it just fine and they must work hard, have incredible talent, and also be great salesmen. If you cant excel at these things then maybe its time to try something else at least part time. This doesn't mean sell your torch and lathe. I never will! M

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by misticglass View Post
    I got involved with 3d printing a few years ago and got my first ever "real" job at an engineering company within a month of having my son 2 1/2 years ago. I love art and glassblowing but as many people here know being dependent on glass for money is not only difficult, but it also sucks the fun out of it. Taking a shot and applying for this job was a great decision monetarily and mentally. After years alone in the studio beating myself up its nice to have a structured team and do what your told without having to think too hard or be too personally invested in it like running a glass shop. Glass materials are expensive!!! I am just a technician not making great money but is consistent instead of having to wait to chase some Instagram kid or store down for your cash. I think the market itself is part of the problem. "potheads" are not exactly the most reliable or well off group of people out there. Stores are great, but they are struggling with the same issues with instagram, imports etc and cant support every glassblower on the block. Its hard to put faith in that for the future.

    Hope this wasn't negative its not meant to be. Diversify. Follow Dreams. Get Educated. There are plenty of glassblowers who will make it just fine and they must work hard, have incredible talent, and also be great salesmen. If you cant excel at these things then maybe its time to try something else at least part time. This doesn't mean sell your torch and lathe. I never will! M
    I don't see this as being negative. I see it as being realistic!

    This is exactly what I'm getting at with bringing up the topic.

    Kristian Turley GLDG Forum Founder
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  3. #123
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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by KT-Old School Glass View Post
    I don't see this as being negative. I see it as being realistic!

    This is exactly what I'm getting at with bringing up the topic.

    this is where I am headed, I think I am gonna get certified as a realtor over the internet and enroll in august in the cnc program at the community college because I want to be an artistic piper, my days may be many more as a prodo artist but I can only keep up the time and effort for a few more years. I have made 15-20k pipes i think in 3 and a half years, and I am suffering durn out already. I am 300 hand pipes deep or more, with several bongs and 75 bowl made in the last two weeks and have a huge payday tomorrow. but I am exhausted and stressed and drained, and after I get that 2-2.5 check tomorrow, I will still have to come home and pay my oxy bill and get to work on my august 10 deadline. I spend sooooo much time alone. I have phone convos and shit with several people that post here and me and another guy that does prodo at the same level as me is deppressed as well. we have good lives we are proud of what we do, proud of the culture, but we are underpaid for guys hat work 8+hour days 7 days a week and live a lifestyle not a job. real high here and a little sad. I am about to go make so bigger bongs for this order tomorrow. love you all, and look out for my joke of a catalog, coming soon. hope this post was not too bad
    May I live like the lotus, at ease in muddy water

    Formerly known as Skuzz

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    My glass isn’t cheap. I resent that. Some people sell $1 pipes. I’m charging like $7 here. Cheap glass is $2.50 a spoon. But my attitude just sold 250 spoons plus 15 bubblers to a distributor, a store and a chain store. I will take the summer spoon sales for sure. Too hot to make other stuff anyway.
    dont fucking lie dude people sell 1$ one hitters. your wrap and rakes are 5 dollars under priced with a nicer fume and shaping job. 1$ pipes from fucking china are not our counter parts, its the illegal black market stealing our business. stop acting like that fucking nepalese and indian glass can be compared to even your over cooked pipes.. you being a dick to us, and even your self, because your the guy thats not improving your work quality and pricing pipes 5$ to cheap and making them almost as fast as me. never as clean, you will never be as clean as me bro
    Last edited by PyroChixRock; 07-20-2018 at 11:51 AM. Reason: removed personal attack
    May I live like the lotus, at ease in muddy water

    Formerly known as Skuzz

  5. #125
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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    love yo still nomad, I am grumpy but this shit is true, stop acting as if these import buyers if they are ok. not cool.
    May I live like the lotus, at ease in muddy water

    Formerly known as Skuzz

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    swim i get you but please don't call names.

    I think the cnc program will be rad for you. I have seen your drive, I can imagine you really excelling in that field.

    as for blowing glass alone, it sucks and I get it. We have a group webcam thing where we can blow glass together, online. It's not the same as having someone in the shop but you do hear the tinks of the glass from others, and it makes a difference in not feeling alone. The link is at the top of the forum, called "hangout" but since we haven't been using it much lately a hangout thread will help people gather at the same times. I won't have shop time today but hopefully tomorrow, and I can post up a thread to see if we can rally a hangout.
    ~Misha

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    that would be great, I actually edited some of the name calling out. I am sorry, your right, I will follow the rules, and thanx for the encouragement
    May I live like the lotus, at ease in muddy water

    Formerly known as Skuzz

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Thanks, we sooooooooooo very appreciate the professionalism and respect. We are all co-workers in a sense, and it would greatly help our industry if everyone reacted the way you just did. Thanks, you rock.
    ~Misha

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swim View Post
    dont fucking lie dude people sell 1$ one hitters. your wrap and rakes are 5 dollars under priced with a nicer fume and shaping job. 1$ pipes from fucking china are not our counter parts, its the illegal black market stealing our business. stop acting like that fucking nepalese and indian glass can be compared to even your over cooked pipes.. you being a dick to us, and even your self, because your the guy thats not improving your work quality and pricing pipes 5$ to cheap and making them almost as fast as me. never as clean, you will never be as clean as me bro
    I have been making $7 spoons for 20 years now. Same price. Never changed.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    I have been making $7 spoons for 20 years now. Same price. Never changed.
    That right there is exactly the problem. You have no right to complain about not making more money when you have not raised your price in 20 years! I have seen one of my vendors and one competitor close their doors because they did not raise their prices in 20 years. You know what I do? I watch my rates on every single job and adjust pricing accordingly. EVERY DAY, EVERY JOB. The old practice of holding prices for ten years are gone for me, my customers don’t hold their retail pricing for ten years so why should I voluntarily forego profit so they can boost theirs? Fuck that. We provide high quality, on time delivery, top rate customer service. We bend over backwards to keep their business running smoothly and most of our customers love us for it so they pay the small increase. My shop runs a small profit margin but it has remained steady because of this practice, my crew bust their asses and we all earn our paycheck so I make sure that we get paid for our work.
    Keep in mind they are not really buying the product, they are buying from the artist, sell yourself not your glass. I hear all the time on this forum how the shops don’t appreciate your work, learn from that. Be polite, smile, be on time, be presentable, don’t be stupid. Don’t show up with a 420 shirt and smelling like smoke, swearing and complaining how hard you work. The saying goes, don’t dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want. Like it or not people judge by the cover. I’m not saying dress shirt and leather shoes but you know where I’m going. Don’t sell your product sell your service, any more thats the only thing that will set you apart and justify higher prices. I don’t have any idea how anyone else presents themselves so I’m generalizing here, maybe y’all do this already, I don’t know.
    Human society is complex and complicated but humans are simple, we buy with our eyes.
    To that point, Nomad your work is clean and consistent but boring, when i see your (endless) racks of W/R i see import glass and your big accounts probably do too. In my opinion you really are competing directly with China/India and bro, YOU WILL NOT WIN THAT GAME.
    I gave up competing with offshore machine shops years ago and that was the best decision I have made yet. Included in that is giving up customers who shop 20 vendors for every order, there will always be someone who will do it cheaper so let them work themselves into the poorhouse.
    I just realized I got suckered into another Nomad hijack...Doh!
    I do what I know, I don't know what I'm doing

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    You said everything I was thinking Cerberus! I havn't been at this game for 20 years, only about 4 now. I've got a nice batch of stores that carry my work, and regularly purchase more. While other stores only want to pay $5-7 for things, and I politely tell them I can't/won't compete with import pricing because my work is worth more then that, and my expenses are higher. I'm not living high on the hog, infact we are barely getting by right now. However I'm confident that as I continue to grow my business this way that my customer service, and quality WILL make my work stand out. I WON'T sell janky anything. Its why I don't just bang out pourly shaped $5 pipes, I'll leave that to the other guys. Maybe they will make more money then me, but all my work will have more love in it and will be something I'm proud to put into the world.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    So Blair what do the “good” shops say when you ask for more and what do the “cheap” shops say when you say the same thing?
    If you were a customer walking into the two shops what is your impression of each? Do the shops and employees in them look, act, or feel different (the vibe yo!). Do you notice a different type or style of customer?
    Another mantra is make what they want to buy not what you want to sell. In defense of Nomad it does sound like his customers simpl don’t care what they buy as long as it’s cheap.
    Again, I’m no expert and I don’t know what yall do but ther are lots of inexpensive ways to market yourself and command higher prices. Nomad you have been making and selling the exact same stuff; style, size, color, for 20 years. As a buyer I would have no respect for an ARTIST who has made no progress in skill or creativity in that time. I say you haven’t “made” progress but I really mean you haven’t “shown” progress, we know you have more talent but you keep making the same tired stuff.
    Justin makes nice prodo, fairly simple designs, clean and consistent (efficient) but constantly with new styles and shapes and colors, PLUS some cool fancy pieces. I’m sure his customers look forward to his next visit to see what’s new and fresh, he generates interest and anticipation by selling to their eyes with a broad range of products. By doing so he is able to charge more than similar work and get his asking price.
    I do what I know, I don't know what I'm doing

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    That right there is exactly the problem. You have no right to complain about not making more money when you have not raised your price in 20 years! I have seen one of my vendors and one competitor close their doors because they did not raise their prices in 20 years. You know what I do? I watch my rates on every single job and adjust pricing accordingly. EVERY DAY, EVERY JOB. The old practice of holding prices for ten years are gone for me, my customers don’t hold their retail pricing for ten years so why should I voluntarily forego profit so they can boost theirs? Fuck that. We provide high quality, on time delivery, top rate customer service. We bend over backwards to keep their business running smoothly and most of our customers love us for it so they pay the small increase. My shop runs a small profit margin but it has remained steady because of this practice, my crew bust their asses and we all earn our paycheck so I make sure that we get paid for our work.
    Keep in mind they are not really buying the product, they are buying from the artist, sell yourself not your glass. I hear all the time on this forum how the shops don’t appreciate your work, learn from that. Be polite, smile, be on time, be presentable, don’t be stupid. Don’t show up with a 420 shirt and smelling like smoke, swearing and complaining how hard you work. The saying goes, don’t dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want. Like it or not people judge by the cover. I’m not saying dress shirt and leather shoes but you know where I’m going. Don’t sell your product sell your service, any more thats the only thing that will set you apart and justify higher prices. I don’t have any idea how anyone else presents themselves so I’m generalizing here, maybe y’all do this already, I don’t know.
    Human society is complex and complicated but humans are simple, we buy with our eyes.
    To that point, Nomad your work is clean and consistent but boring, when i see your (endless) racks of W/R i see import glass and your big accounts probably do too. In my opinion you really are competing directly with China/India and bro, YOU WILL NOT WIN THAT GAME.
    I gave up competing with offshore machine shops years ago and that was the best decision I have made yet. Included in that is giving up customers who shop 20 vendors for every order, there will always be someone who will do it cheaper so let them work themselves into the poorhouse.
    I just realized I got suckered into another Nomad hijack...Doh!
    I have actually been wearing my suit. I mean I wear jeans and a denim shirt with my vest and suit jacket and dress shoes. I have been really professional lately.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    So Blair what do the “good” shops say when you ask for more and what do the “cheap” shops say when you say the same thing?
    If you were a customer walking into the two shops what is your impression of each? Do the shops and employees in them look, act, or feel different (the vibe yo!). Do you notice a different type or style of customer?
    Another mantra is make what they want to buy not what you want to sell. In defense of Nomad it does sound like his customers simpl don’t care what they buy as long as it’s cheap.
    Again, I’m no expert and I don’t know what yall do but ther are lots of inexpensive ways to market yourself and command higher prices. Nomad you have been making and selling the exact same stuff; style, size, color, for 20 years. As a buyer I would have no respect for an ARTIST who has made no progress in skill or creativity in that time. I say you haven’t “made” progress but I really mean you haven’t “shown” progress, we know you have more talent but you keep making the same tired stuff.
    Justin makes nice prodo, fairly simple designs, clean and consistent (efficient) but constantly with new styles and shapes and colors, PLUS some cool fancy pieces. I’m sure his customers look forward to his next visit to see what’s new and fresh, he generates interest and anticipation by selling to their eyes with a broad range of products. By doing so he is able to charge more than similar work and get his asking price.
    My customers spend a lot of money. When it comes to spoons they want that price but I am selling more bubblers anyways these days.
    I pick up some spoon gigs because it is not as hot working in the studio in the summer. Plus people spend like $500-$1000 a sale.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    That right there is exactly the problem. You have no right to complain about not making more money when you have not raised your price in 20 years! I have seen one of my vendors and one competitor close their doors because they did not raise their prices in 20 years. You know what I do? I watch my rates on every single job and adjust pricing accordingly. EVERY DAY, EVERY JOB. The old practice of holding prices for ten years are gone for me, my customers don’t hold their retail pricing for ten years so why should I voluntarily forego profit so they can boost theirs? Fuck that. We provide high quality, on time delivery, top rate customer service. We bend over backwards to keep their business running smoothly and most of our customers love us for it so they pay the small increase. My shop runs a small profit margin but it has remained steady because of this practice, my crew bust their asses and we all earn our paycheck so I make sure that we get paid for our work.
    Keep in mind they are not really buying the product, they are buying from the artist, sell yourself not your glass. I hear all the time on this forum how the shops don’t appreciate your work, learn from that. Be polite, smile, be on time, be presentable, don’t be stupid. Don’t show up with a 420 shirt and smelling like smoke, swearing and complaining how hard you work. The saying goes, don’t dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want. Like it or not people judge by the cover. I’m not saying dress shirt and leather shoes but you know where I’m going. Don’t sell your product sell your service, any more thats the only thing that will set you apart and justify higher prices. I don’t have any idea how anyone else presents themselves so I’m generalizing here, maybe y’all do this already, I don’t know.
    Human society is complex and complicated but humans are simple, we buy with our eyes.
    To that point, Nomad your work is clean and consistent but boring, when i see your (endless) racks of W/R i see import glass and your big accounts probably do too. In my opinion you really are competing directly with China/India and bro, YOU WILL NOT WIN THAT GAME.
    I gave up competing with offshore machine shops years ago and that was the best decision I have made yet. Included in that is giving up customers who shop 20 vendors for every order, there will always be someone who will do it cheaper so let them work themselves into the poorhouse.
    I just realized I got suckered into another Nomad hijack...Doh!
    Suckered in maybe, but that's possibly because you feel that you might be beating your head on the wall trying to explain.

    However, many other people who read it just might get it, and you have a lot of great points.

    It's been impossible for a lot of people to raise their prices to match how much our overhead has inflated. If we were all doing it across the board when the oxygen companies send us that annual price increase letter, and when our color costs go up, etc. then the market would level out, but that isn't how it happens. There is so much fly by the seat of your pants in our industry and a lot of people don't understand that we have to do what you just explained. The competition has kept it from being possible for the ones of us who do understand. Which is why Kristian used to be able to feed a family, and can now barely take care of himself, for example. A lot of us are in the same boat. And this thread has some awesome ideas on what to do about it.
    ~Misha

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PyroChixRock View Post

    It's been impossible for a lot of people to raise their prices to match how much our overhead has inflated. If we were all doing it across the board when the oxygen companies send us that annual price increase letter, and when our color costs go up, etc. then the market would level out, but that isn't how it happens. There is so much fly by the seat of your pants in our industry and a lot of people don't understand that we have to do what you just explained. The competition has kept it from being possible for the ones of us who do understand. Which is why Kristian used to be able to feed a family, and can now barely take care of himself, for example. A lot of us are in the same boat. And this thread has some awesome ideas on what to do about it.
    Exactly what I'm getting at!

    The people that start working with glass, sell their "beginner" work cheap, continue to sell at the same price as their work progresses... The stores take advantage of that and set their buying prices on that.

    There are soooo many glassblowers competing that the stores set the prices on our work because they know someone else will sell to them if we won't.

    It's not just an "import" issue. It's an issue of a flooded market.

    I'd love to make nicer, more artistic work (and have the ability to). But the more artistic work doesn't sell fast enough to pay the bills.

    Annnddd on that note... I've put my application in to start school (hopefully in time for me to start this Fall).

    Kristian Turley GLDG Forum Founder
    Old School Glass
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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    This Thread, without all the Nomad hijacks, really hits home to me. There was a Instagram post by Keenan the crazy honeycomb fume guy on Instagram about working in today's market and staying focused.
    when I took a step back from the Cannabis Community, I had to reassess what brought me into glass in the first place. It makes grinding prodo against overseas competitors really hard. I keep watching and listening to inspirational videos to tell you to follow your Muse, and mine is in glass. It has just changed as I get older. I have a buddy that Imports really nice rigs that I simply cannot compete with. My strong suit is fuming, and he pays me very well for the rainbows. when I over fume and it whites out, I put it in the bin and don't sell it. Hint hint.
    I found that I have the same passion for cremation marbles, because it really makes people happy. It is a lot like the feeling I had when I saw one of my pieces going around a Budda doji. I really like what Ceribus and others have said about finding alternate sources of income, but maintaining the love for lampworking. I have a buddy who does tungsten seals in the lab, -his feedback has kept me doing pendants and stuff. He appreciates his job, but it is only slightly above minimum wage with a little bit of benefits.
    I long for the days when this forum was lit. I have learned so much from this site. as much as I respect an individual's right to express ones self, I click on and see Nomads drama everyday, and it turns me off. likewise, I would love to see him sell a lot of glass and make as much money as he can on the free market, growing everyday and increasing his skills like the rest of us.
    Last edited by Mr. Larry; 07-21-2018 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Nomad has no desire to increase his skills.
    you will shank me later

    Quote Originally Posted by FifDeez View Post
    I like the idea of burning water. Sounds mystical even tho I understand it completely.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
    So Blair what do the “good” shops say when you ask for more and what do the “cheap” shops say when you say the same thing?
    If you were a customer walking into the two shops what is your impression of each? Do the shops and employees in them look, act, or feel different (the vibe yo!). Do you notice a different type or style of customer?
    Another mantra is make what they want to buy not what you want to sell. In defense of Nomad it does sound like his customers simpl don’t care what they buy as long as it’s cheap.
    Again, I’m no expert and I don’t know what yall do but ther are lots of inexpensive ways to market yourself and command higher prices. Nomad you have been making and selling the exact same stuff; style, size, color, for 20 years. As a buyer I would have no respect for an ARTIST who has made no progress in skill or creativity in that time. I say you haven’t “made” progress but I really mean you haven’t “shown” progress, we know you have more talent but you keep making the same tired stuff.
    Justin makes nice prodo, fairly simple designs, clean and consistent (efficient) but constantly with new styles and shapes and colors, PLUS some cool fancy pieces. I’m sure his customers look forward to his next visit to see what’s new and fresh, he generates interest and anticipation by selling to their eyes with a broad range of products. By doing so he is able to charge more than similar work and get his asking price.
    When I make sales to shops I spell out my pricing. I explain why my styles and pieces cost what they do. I explain the base price for a style/size and what it costs me to make them. None of the "good" shops care at all since when my price has gone up over the last 4 years, the work has always still been up to the price. Most the shops I deal with sell my work at keystone +5%. I don't really do business with "cheap" shops much. I have a few that carry a little of my work, but most of the time those shops focus more on flipping cheap throw away pipes instead of something pretty you want to add to your life.

    I agree I could definitely make more money if I just made cheap simply formed pipes. Based on what I see when people post prodo pictures online, it seems that shops don't care what the pipe looks like if you are only charging $5.

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    Default Re: Anyone else ever consider getting a "real job"?

    Has Nomad been banned?

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