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Thread: M0xxy makes a mess

  1. #21
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I haven't died or gotten bored with this yet! I'm still burning o2 and spinning glass, and some things are getting better. I've gotten to that part in the learning process where each new thing isn't exciting because it's new, it's exciting because its a step on the way to becoming better but I have a million steps to go and the pictures get less interesting over time. As someone who taught me Go used to say, screw up your first 1000 pieces swiftly. Here are some random pictures of me getting those first 1000 pieces out of the way.


    Finally got the kiln wired up and firing! Smoked like my grandma on the first run, too. Last night was my first time playing around with garaging blanks as I worked on other stuff and it felt like I had a lot less problems with glass exploding than I usually do.


    Stepping up my storage game. Doesn't help for long tubes and rods but has been a great place to park my colors and my precut tubes. I have extra parts (some GoG joints, marble molds, etc) in some drawers higher up in the unit. I really liked how this turned out and jsut need to find a better storage for the full size (4' or so) rods.


    I'm playing with a new hollow form, a very simple hummingbird feeder. Very simple but sort of fun to work through the workflow myself instead of commiting a revere or torchtalk video to memory.


    Hummingbird feeder mark2. Simple brilliant blue with some fuming.


    Closeup of HBF#2


    I wrapped some black tube with magic striking white. I really like the thin gold band from the interface layer but suspect it would be hard to control and reproduce nicely. I will probably be doing this combination a few times in the future to see if I can nail it with some practice.

    Here is a good experiment:


    A quick polka dot spoon, turned out OK.

    Here are some not-so-good experiments:


    A Moxxy mess! Tried to make a lil bowl out of brilliant blue rod, some magic white dots, and encased in clear. It did not bench cool nicely, blew off the tube I had it on, and cracked. Good practice drawing on clear tho.


    Halfassed linework turned into a halfassed trash spoon.


    Halfassed linework turned into a halfassed trash spoon.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I've been fascinated by fume lately. I'm working up to my first vacuum encasement and I think that will give me some additional things to try, but for now I'm trying to blow fume onto a blank, trap some fume with clear dots and then blow off the excess fume. It works just well enough to be tantalizing but not well enough to be good yet.


    Early experiment with fume trapping. This blank only had one dot trap fume, but it is a very encouraging beautiful blue color.


    This blank has zero colored dots, and even rolled off my blowtube and landed on my crotch. It was nuts! What a bad blank, I didn't even try and finish it.


    This fume trapping went a little better. Quite a few dots, but I ended up sticking way too much tube on the unencased area and it's overall very terrible.


    Tried to do some fume trapping on a cobalt tube too. It kinda worked on the bowl end, and there is an interesting silver star pattern on the cobalt.


    More of the interesting star pattern sputtering silver onto cobalt tube.


    Finally, a pretty interesting fume trap experiment. I fumed the tube, wrapped clear around it, and then tried to blow the fume off with a oxy flame. I'm not sure exactly how I got the colors I did, but its got a really interesting deep tiger stripe thing going on.

    As far as I can tell, the fume underneath the clear doesn't really seem trapped. I'm either inadvertently burning off the fume while putting the dots on there or a high oxy flame can remove the fume effect from underneath the clear. Based on the tiger stripe pipe from last night, I actually think I was removing fume while adding clear which is why I would sometimes get just one good dot - the first one, ofc! I definitely need to spend more time thinking about the flame characteristics both as I'm fuming but also as I'm trapping.

  3. #23

    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    git it MOxxy. I will say this about that. (as my old friend from Kentucky used to say)
    I hear some people saying its better to teach yourself than copy a RevereGlass video and to learn alot of techniques and to not be a Revere disciple that is a one trick pony from a single video. While this is partly true, I am a glassblower that leaned heavily on Revere videos and others like Capglass to gain some understanding of the fundamentals involved. I am "self-taught" and will be forever teaching myself until i can afford a class one day, but i can honestly say i was taught by Dustin Revere and Capglass videos until i had the balls to post in this forum. And what i mean by that is how you watch their videos. Just because he is making an inside out spoon or a one piece sherlock in the video, it doesn't mean you're going to make 500 of those because that's what you've studied. The end product is important (as in a clean looking piece), but that all comes with the experience you gain from the material when it starts coming together for you. I think the real benefit of these videos is the opportunity to see a real craftsman at work and study the smaller details in their hands, their timing, the heat base. How many times did he heat the bowl area and puff out the hole before pushing the bowl? What angle was he holding that when he puffed it out? How long did he soak heat into that piece before shaping it? What does his flame look like when he's fuming? How fast is he spinning his glass to do "that"? How large are the holes he makes when he connects 2 pieces of glass? You get the idea. It's the very basic fundamentals that are gained and can help you figure out why some things are not working out so well. So it's not that you make inside out spoons like Dustin Revere, its that you might push a better bowl or might make a nicer mouthpiece than i did in the very beginning thanks to him. And watch some Capglass videos too bro and pay attention to what his hands are doing.
    I'm sorry i went on a rant. Thats cool ur kiln is working and the hummingbird feeders are a good idea.


  4. #24
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I've kinda cooled on the Revere videos specifically. They are really good and I still watch them, but they are a bit over edited and the guy's skill level is phenomenal and it makes it hard to be a primary instructional source. It's like trying to learn basketball by studying Michael Jordan greatest hits videos. There is a lot to learn, but its not a perfect source and its hard for me to even appreciate all of the subtleties that make it great at this point. I've been really enjoying the back catalog of the torchtalk channel (longer videos that are paced more realistically) and have been started my way through the the first volume of contemporary lampworking book which so far seems like a great resource.

    Is there a term for this fume encasement I'm trying to do? I've played with it a bit and now I'm curious to read about this but I don't know the tec name to google. I'm going to try to do some similar stuff with marbles now that I can anneal the larger ones, I've seen a few posts on talkglass about doing implosion marbles similarly and it sounded fun.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    if those are your first marbles (previous page), then you're off to a great start (appears you are anyhow, off to a good start). if you don't have a kiln at the moment and want more of your glass to survive cooling, that fiber blanket really does work pretty good. they say vermiculite also is good but i've no personal experience with it.
    You shouldn't be having sex for pleasure, only for reproduction.
    Thousands of people read my threads now. So Im trying to not embarrass myself.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    In a new development that I think RR11 will appreciate, I tried my hand at some IO frit spoons last night.


    I pulled some points off of my 25mm tubing for a change of pace. I had a hell of a time reopening the ends cleanly, they feel too small but what to do I know?


    GA Amazon Night medium frit. I really like how this turned out but I didn't get it distributed evenly, then didn't get it melted in great, and then finally got distracted by trying to open up the mouth hole. It was like the first time all over again! It majorly cracked while I was dinking around the mouth hole and I just kilned the pieces instead of trying to glue it together. I figured it was more interesting to be able to inspect the inside of the piece anyways.


    GA Sno White large frit. I think this color is looks great as an IO frit job, it looks like little billowy clouds of white. In my excitement to get it in the kiln before it exploded like the Amazon Night piece, I forgot to flatten the bottom. It ended up being a tippy little billowy clouds of white pipe!


    GA Aqua Azul small frit #1. I made quite a mess trying to work with this and didn't get it quite evenly mixed in. I'm pretty happy with it in general though.


    GA Aqua Azul small frit #2. It looks pretty nice but the mouth end is all wonky because I had trouble opening the hole again.

    https://i.imgur.com/MpOgddN.mp4
    GA Aqua Azul small frit #3. There ended up being a bit of frit that got sucked up into the end as I closed it and evened it out. I think this effect looks great and will probably be exploring it a bit in the future.

  7. #27

    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    one thing that helped me with frit iso, besides taking it through the fires of hell and then farther, was melting half of the blank in, then switching blowtube ends and melting the other half. you can also switch bt ends with any spoon to give yourself a second chance to get everything the way u want it. either make the spoon backwards and get your mouthpiece shaped, then switch and start condensing the bowl end.
    Or pull the stem like normal, switch ends to shape mouthpiece and switch back again to finish. It sounds like alot of extra work, but it gives you alot of practice tearing open holes and connecting up.
    Another thing i did when i was struggling with frit was make smaller sections, open them up and connect them up, so the whole piece is fully melted and you get practice making connections.





  8. #28

    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    heres a spoon i made last year. This way you have 3 smaller sections that are easier to control and u can learn more easily how far you have to take it to get a full melt. make a smaller blank (for the stem), make a ball of melted color, connect up, condense and puff and marver until its an even blank again, tear it open, connect your bt to the new color (now the moupiece), tear or pop open the middle color, add another small section of frit iso, finish shaping blank and shape your piece out.


  9. #29
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    Thanks for the suggestion (a long time ago). I gave this a try back in June(!) and it turned out ok:



    Butt joints are gross (something I've been working on since) but you're right - cooking each piece individually allowed me to better control meltin on the overall piece.

    I took a break in late july because it was getting too warm to torch, got busy with work, then got sick (yikes ya'll) but I'm finally got back into it in mid-November. I've got a few months worth of pics to collect and show off, my newest experiment is with my vacuum pump and simple sleeving and I'm super happy with how it turned out.

    However, I keep running out of O2! It's terrible, especially when you're in the middle of something. I'm running a Phantom off of tanks and thinking about getting some oxycons. I found a pair of used EX20s for sale and may pick them up. Before I saw this pair, my initial plan was to get a 10-20 LPM worth to run the centerfire, and keep tanking the outerfire for now. Eventually I could upgrade to surge tank, or something like an oxygenfrog or HVO system (and still use the oxycons as input?). This pair seems to be what I'm looking for so I'll probably pull the trigger soonish, but what is the wisdom here?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    If you feel like using a holding tank, etc... let us know. We can get you set up with an HVO system no problem.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    Quote Originally Posted by AxisWolf View Post
    If you feel like using a holding tank, etc... let us know. We can get you set up with an HVO system no problem.
    Ok, so I am now the proud owner of two supposedly low hour EX20s which should be 10 lpm models. I only have hoses to tie both of them (Y) to the centerfire (w/ no outerfire), or to both inputs to the Phantom. I will get some more hoses coming so I can try a few more things, but I will need to do some adjustments one way or the other before I am happy. Two oxycons may be fighting each other while running or something, they seem like they are running goofy but I'm not an expert yet. Once I can try a single one on the Lynx it should be more obvious.

    Reading through my options, I have disregarded buying 'homefill' hardware. Based on what I'm reading it seems like it could be made to work but I don't want to deal with the issues of pushing large tanks to high pressures that seem to give them trouble. I have a few options for surge tanks or high pressure systems remaining to think about.

    Tanked O2 only: current configuration, oxygen concentrators are unused.


    Outerfire off of tanks: I'll still burn through O2 when running the outerfire, but this should stretch out deliveries significantly. I've only tried with both oxycons and it works alright, not sure if I could get away with a single 10 lpm on a Lynx.



    Tanked outerfire w/ surge tank: A surge tank with one or two oxycons should help with keeping consistent O2 delivery.


    Dual oxycons only: Doesn't seem to have enough oomph to drive the whole Phantom torch. Anything bigger than relatively small flames would go reducing - I'd be better off with using the Lynx exclusively than this option.



    All surge tank: To feed the outer fire, I think I would need to get at least a third oxycon.


    High pressure system: Either custom or HVO/OxygenFrog/etc OTS. I think this ends up being the highest performance for the most $$. Current oxycons should be sufficient for this, and my current ktanks can be plumbed in for situations where the high pressure system gets drawn down during a session.


    Right now I'm leaning towards getting a surge tank and running my outerfire off of tanks for a while, and reconsider investing in a compressor/tank setup down the road. A pedal would help quite a bit here. That said it seems like the money for the tank could be invested up front in the final setup and save myself effort long term though. One detail I haven't figured out is how long the tanks will last just on the outerfire based on my usage, for instance if the outerfire burns through more of the O2 than I'm thinking the surge tank setup won't space out the deliveries nearly enough to be worthwhile and I should skip buying a surge tank.

    Am I missing any obvious options I should be considering? Are any of these bad ideas?
    Last edited by m0xxyboro; 12-07-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I think you are right on using tanked for the outer for now. The 10lpm should get the lynx inner running well enough to melt glass.

    I use 3, 10lpm machines into a surge tank with an oil-less compressor and a handful of brass fittings and hoses. This keeps up with my Mirage, and work style no problems.

    Two 10's, and a proper compressor for that O2 flow, plus a 60 gallon holding tank and I bet your phantom would be set!

  13. #33
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    Any recommended parts or recent guides? I've read a bunch but some is outdated (with regards to suppliers, at least) or maybe superseded, idk. I should def price out a potential solution before I just get a surge tank. I'm gonna give Scott's informational videos another watch through but I definitely am trying to keep O2 supply from becoming another rabbit hole I fall down lol

    There are of course a lot of good threads. This is one of my favs: http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...gen-Generators
    Flaming Ball's posts are perfect. I like the tanks with the equipment racks on top for fancy factor but seems unnecessary.

    Something like this for a tank:
    30G https://www.zoro.com/speedaire-tank-...63/i/G0426483/
    80G: https://www.zoro.com/speedaire-tank-...65/i/G3458025/

    Something like this for a pump:
    1/6HP: https://www.zoro.com/gast-piston-air...0x/i/G1222715/
    1/4HP: https://www.zoro.com/gast-piston-air...0x/i/G1611574/

    I haven't done enough research to really match pumps to oxycons to tanks yet tho. It looks like once I know what I want, I may be able to find cheaper options than these particular items or this vendor, but it seems close to what I have in mind.
    Last edited by m0xxyboro; 12-08-2020 at 02:18 AM.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I run a mirage like this: https://i.imgur.com/tgPMHKw.jpg using:

    https://www.amazon.com/California-Ai...7448865&sr=8-7
    https://www.harborfreight.com/11-gal...ank-65595.html

    There is a smaller model of compressor that would be more suitable, and I'm pretty sure the holding tanks go down to $20 or $30 on sale.

    I fill to 60psi. If I shut down the system I can keep working for about 90 minutes in soft glass so I've never felt the need to go any higher.

    I can't speak for boro use, but in my experience you turn the system on 20-30 minutes before you start torching, and then if you are taking water breaks or walking around and stuff between pieces there is actually a huge amount of downtime for the system to fill so you can get by with less capacity than you think you need.

    For example I was hoping to run the mirage off the two (very large) concentrators directly and it was miserable, but with the holding tanks I probably have twice as much oxygen as I need.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    This is Arpad Kovacs (Kovacs Glass) DIY HVLP system. Directly quoted from him:


    I’ve had lots of people ask me about this and I’ve helped a fair handful build their own systems already, so thought I’d make an easy enough guide on here:
    30lpm DIY HVLP Oxygen System

    This setup costs ~3k to set up and will run 2 torches on foot pedals or 1 larger GTT. You can always add more o2 storage or more concentrators if your demand is higher.

    • Cali Air Tools 1p1060s - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYHYHEA/

    •3x 10lpm Oxygen Concentrators
    - availableoxygen02.com
    - oxygenplusmedical.com/
    - dotmed.com
    - highvolumeoxygen.com/shop/
    Or Local Craigslist ads

    •80gal Air Tank - https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...5168_200685168

    •5psi pressure relief valve - https://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Contr...dp/B01KO7NB9K/

    • Cga 540/regulator adapter -
    https://www.homelectrical.com/cga-54...ee-4151.1.html

    •Miscellaneous fittings to block ports on your tank ~$100.
    Clean out your air tank with degreaser and then soapy water. Seal everything with oxygen safe tape!
    You want to tee together your 3 oxycons and run them to the INLET of your air compressor. At the inlet, Tee in the 5psi valve. This will vent your oxy cons while the compressor is off.
    Remove the 150psi relief valve from the air compressor and add a 1/4” hose barb. Run oxygen line from this barb to your holding tank. Add the 150psi relief valve somewhere on your tank as the fail safe.
    Either buy a CGA540 adapter or replace the bottle valve on your regulator and fit it to your air tank. Hook up torch.
    Turn everything on and you’re ready to go. The compressor will turn on at 90psi and turn off at 120psi. The oxycons run the whole time you're working.
    Edit:
    20lpm HVLP System:

    •Oil free air compressor -
    https://www.harborfreight.com/1-gall...sor-64592.html

    •2x 10lpm oxygen concentrators OR 4x 5lpm machines.

    •Everything else would be the same as above. Main difference would be the full time would be a little slower.

    Edit 2:
    Kyle Winn was kind enough to put together a list of all the parts/fittings he purchased for his system based off of my guide.
    Open source all the way!
    @Kalman_Glass list.

    NIGO Industrial Co. 3-Way Tee - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HX952SJ
    X1 ☝️ (3 needed)

    EDGE INDUSTRIAL Brass REDUCING HEX Bushing 1" Male NPT X 1/4" Female NPT - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D2HF7ZL
    X2 ☝️

    Supply Giant CSQM0100 1-Inch Male National Pipe Taper Threads Brass Cored Plug - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N2SH8NE/
    X2 ☝️

    Anderson Metals 56121 Brass Pipe Fitting, Cored Hex Head Plug, 1/4" NPT Male Pipe - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SAQ6SK/
    X1 ☝️

    Nigo Industrial Co. Brass Pipe Fitting, Forged Brass Tee - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SC7HJH6
    X3 ☝️

    Nigo Industrial Co. 240SS Series Forged Brass Mini Gas Ball Valve - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074373TH6
    X2 ☝️

    LOKMAN Hose Clamp, 20 Pack - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076Q7QVNM
    X1 ☝️ (12 used)

    Measureman 2-1/2" Dial Size, Liquid Filled Pressure Gauge - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZHD5D8D
    X1 ☝️

    Pipe Fitting and Air Hose Fittings, Hex Nipple Coupling 1/4-Inch NPT x 1/4-Inch NPT Male - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W14Q1Z9
    X1 ☝️ (4 needed)

    Anderson Metals 56121 Brass Pipe Fitting, Cored Hex Head Plug, 1/4" NPT Male Pipe - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SAQ6SK
    X1 ☝️

    U.S. Solid Brass Hose Fitting, Adapter, 1/4" Barb x 1/4" NPT Male Pipe Fittings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VJK7KML/
    X2 ☝️

    Midwest Control MBB-75 600 PSI CWP 3/4" NPT MxF Brass Ball Valve - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005PYHGYE
    X1 ☝️

    Gasoila GT90-24 Green PTFE High Density Thread Tape Roll - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008HPW242
    X2 ☝️

    WeldingCity 50-ft Grade-T Twin Hose 1/4" B-B Fittings - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GNVR1RJ
    X1 ☝️

    Legines 1/4" Hose Barb to 1/4" NPT Female Fitting, Brass Hose Barbed Adapter, 2 pcs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0753FGVW9/
    X4 ☝️ (or salvage from old hoses)

  16. #36
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    That's great info from both of you, thanks. I will probably have some questions but I will need to reread it a few times before I'm ready.

    In the meantime, I tried to do my first wig wag balls last night. It went... poorly, lol. I've got a few lengths of premade golden gate tubing to play with so lots of practice material before I start pulling down my own tubing; this is good because I definitely need more practice! Hooking up a blowtube and tearing off a piece of lined tube went pretty well, as did pulling it down to a smaller diameter. I didn't get the wigwags clean or even but I definitely could see improvement by the last couple. Where I definitely fully failed was bringing it back into a ball and evening it out though. Between being super awkward with two hands and finding the blowhose to be much harder than just using the tube I had a hard time condensing it all down. I think part of the problem with the blowhose is my swivel leaks like crazy so its a very different experience than a sealed vessel imho, and I am failing to adjust how I'm breathing into it.





    https://i.imgur.com/VU0XNNC.mp4

  17. #37

    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    ya thats a problem i had at first with reversal balls, blowing out the ball too thin and distorting it. things that helped me are slow your rotations way down when condensing, keep it straight using the punty hand to help correct it if it gets off a little. Don't puff right away. wait about 5 sec after it has nice even heat, pull it out of flame, rotate, rotate, look at it, puff. i dont use a blowhose everytime. you can eyeball it down the center holding it straight out from your body before you puff. i like to hold it at like a 45 angle with punty hand on the high side too to let it condense sometimes in the flame. be finesse. do it 100 times. your first few bunches of these arent going to be very good. I imagine one day i'll do some vacstack but right now im having alot of fun with colorado color. super stable, shitload of choices, well worth the price for me.
    As far as oxy, thats some great info but im hooked on tanks. i might as well have a tank tattooed on my inner arm cause i need another one man.... shoot it in there!!!!!!!


  18. #38
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    I did my usual - burned through my tanks staying up late on weeknights and now I have no O2 for the weekend

    Wig wags are getting a little bit better. A few more feet of lined tubing and I'll be OK at it I think, but I'll probably put in some practice condensing on clear or something first because it's frustrating to ruin material at that stage rather than at the wig wag twisting step, def feels like I'm missing some fundamentals.














  19. #39
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    For less expensive practice, stripe some stringers on solid rod and wigwag that, turn into horns or marbles.
    When you twist the kick you want to compress slightly, a small maria. Start with a shorter, slighlty thicker walled lenth of tube.
    A guy did me a demo once and he started in the center of the tube for the first kick rather than the end. The second kick was to the right of #1, let that set up then #3 was to the left of #1, after that alternate kicks left/ right of center letting each one set up a bit. If I go one end to the other the tube stays hot and soft and is hard to control. You’re on the right track and looking good!
    I do what I know, I don't know what I'm doing

  20. #40
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    Default Re: M0xxy makes a mess

    Thanks 691175002 and AxisWolf for the knowledge dumps and pictures of your setups & part recommendations. A few questions:

    1) Ok, so I've thought about this a bit and I think I'm coming up with a plan. A 30 gallon tank ($650ish?) or another 30 gallon ($750?) fits in the spot I have very nicely but I'm worried its on the small side volume-wise. I can probably adjust a bunch of stuff and get a 60 gallon ($720 or so) or even a 80 gallon ($670) to fit. Right now I'm only running my Phantom off of it, and I don't have enough practical experience to size one of these systems so I'm looking for some wisdom from the crowd. I don't rage too hard too often, but I'd like to be able to! I'm going to have the O2 tanks around anyways and can relatively easily plumb one of them into the rest of the system to give backup, but it would be pointless if I'm relying on that source a lot of my O2 regularly. This is a spot where I think a bit of experience watching the tank psi gauge once I have one will quickly answer my question but by then - it will be far too late

    2) With a combined max of 20lpm (and assuming less for practical reasons, especially at startup?) it looks like the 1/6hp sized Gast is about the right size for this setup. The Cali Air Tools ones looked to draw too much lpm(?) but I'm still working on making sure I understand this. Any other thoughts?

    3) With the compressor setups, are you controlling the compressor on/off, does it have built in control, or what? I'm not seeing much info about that and wonder if I'm overthinking the amount of control I'm going to have to add here.

    4) My thing is usually electronics and I can def see a lot of similarities in how this system works. However, one thing that is missing is some sort of buffer on the input side of the compressor. I feel like there should be a small tank there to help smooth out operation, seems like you'd want to maintain a minimum pressure of like 1 PSI here, especially during startup. Would one of those small 11g tanks make sense there? Dumb waste? This is more curiosity, I don't actually see anyone doing it in practice from what I can tell.
    Last edited by m0xxyboro; 12-16-2020 at 04:41 AM.

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