Need some help with Fuming

[aommaster]

Hello everyone

My apologies for the wall of text, but I figured it'd help people give me accurate advice. I've currently hit a roadblock with fuming and I was hoping if someone could have a look at my technique and let me know how to improve. I've seen a number of folks on here get yellows and violets out of Silver fume and nice purples out of gold.

My setup:
Bethlehem Champion using LPG as my fuel source and oxygen cylinders as my oxygen source. Oxygen at 14psi, LPG at 2.5psi. Using 24K gold leaf to fume gold, and 999 fine silver to fume silver.

I did a bunch of fuming tests, here's what I have. Note that all of these have a black backing on them:

1. Normal Silver fume on Schott (doesn't look as blue in-person)
2. Heavy Silver fume (I get some really ugly yellows)
3. Normal Silver fume on Simax (some very nice electric blues)
4. Gold fume on Simax

My process for fuming is:

1. Apply the fume by placing a Quartz rod with metal inside candles (reducing flame for silver, strong oxidizing for gold)
2. Use transparent stringers to cover fume in pattern
3. Continue working the piece as normal with fume encased

What I've Tried:

1. Increasing my regulator oxygen to 16psi, and dropping my fuel to 1psi
2. Turning on my outer oxygen
3. Giving a lighter fume, but this just seems to reduce the visibility of the fume
4. Using a lower velocity flame, I turn down the knobs until the candles are really small
5. I can get pinks from gold fume, but it needs to have a white backing. With a black backing, I get this golden-brown color which isn't very appealing

I've read through the topic in the Higher Learning section and the articles by Freddy Faerron in The Flow. I believe it's an oxygen issue, but I can't see why.

Could someone provide advice on what to do to improve the colors I get on my fume?

Thanks

[BORO]

Get a pre mix hand torch.

Low propane presure is a good idea.

Simax not schott.

Layers and fades usually get the range of colors.

Less is more.

The Jason Lee/ Lee bo fume thread , and the bowlpusher thread about fume. Also , re read the honeycomb quest thread.

Blowing the silver off to that tobacco color I think it was page 15? Or 16? If you tried all the method on the comb thread, or just the method that have nice pictures included, you would find what your looking fir i.m.o.

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...Jason+Lee+fume

If you can't see the bowl pusher thread you might have to ask a moderator.

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...ght=J+Lee+fume

Heartburn glasses method yeileds big variations mabye it was page 7 or 8 (not 15 or 16)




http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...-tips-by-Leebo

[aommaster]

Hi! Thanks for the reply!

I hadn't read the Honeycomb thread before, and the technique outlined in that thread is very different to what I normally do. I do have a couple of questions:
1. When I fume Silver, I get little wisps flying off the silver. This ends up hitting the rod being fumed and the rod ends up "spotty". Is this a problem? Is there a way to avoid it?
2. When I start burning off the silver in the highly oxidizing flame (as outlined in that thread), do I burn it off completely? Or do I burn off enough such that the color of the fumed rod is light yellow, before striking again?

Thanks so much!

[BORO]

You try to burn it off... but its baked into the glass , so it looks transparent amber color . If it all burnt off , it was too cold of a blank. Unless your really cooking the clear , then it may look like the fume is gone but it will come back in the kiln. (Second guess is not as likely)

[aommaster]

Okay, so I gave it another shot, but no success, unfortunately. Here's what the rod looked like after fuming:


However, as soon as I started hitting it with a high oxy flame, the fume burned off entirely. The glass was pretty much clear. And fume also did not return after hitting it with a reducing flame.

Before fuming, I had the glass with a dull glow. By the time I was done fuming, it was not glowing at all.

Was the temperature of the glass too low?

[Mute]

take another clear rod and melt it over the one pictured, maybe that will give u an idea about how the fume works...

it travels into the clear, so when u lay it down you want to look at the side u layed down, not the side facing you...so like inside a tube fume, will show you the outside;, the oppoosite of your rod pic...

get the surface of object to be fumed hot, not glowing but hot with a slow neutral flame small hold the silver at the edge of the yellow candles (outter edge) you'll see a little puff and the fume will vaporize like a little cloud puff, thats the part to catch on the hot object, now with a dragon breath reducing flame cook the fume it until the glass glows a little, then switch to a neutral flame to rinse of the soot or fume, and repeat that process until it basically doesn't rinse off and leaves you a metalic looking fume job!

[aommaster]

Hi Mute!

Thanks so much for your post. I think I might have understood what you mean. After I encase this fume, it should travel up into the encasement. Did I understand you correctly?

Also, the process you mentioned with the different flame types: That should be done before encasement, if I understand correctly?

Thanks again!

[Mute]

i think yes.

the fume on the surface isn't usually the desired effect but the trapped fume is, the oxidation muddies up the colors...so spray the fume and trap it with the least amount of flame exposure ....

so 4 example...

get a small piece of tube 25 or 30mm thin or standard wall thickness...or blow heavywall thin...spray the fume inside the tube, dragon flame the outside, not flames on inside of tube or touching fumed area......., wait for that yellow color, then burn off with hotter oxy flame vs the reduced to neutral, then switch back to reduced flame, spray and rinse until u get the desired metalic fume....you can see it b4 your done.

fuming is imo some of the hardest stepped processes but once u get it down it's kinda simple to understand.

my steps are for a gtt not really a premix which is usually preferred to fume with.

its the rinsing and repeating in light layers that will give u the good colors

[aommaster]

Okay, gotcha. What I've been doing is taking that fumed rod I pictured above and lay on a few clear stripes, then twist it up. I then put on a black backing to see what the fume looks like.

However, what I haven't been doing is striking it when the clear stringers were added (I just assumed the fuming process was done). I'll try it out again later and let you know how it goes.

Thank you so much!

[Roadrunner11]

For some nice colors, try light silver and heavy gold over it

[aommaster]

So funny story. Yesterday, I gave up on trying to get those colors out of silver fume. Today, I fumed some silver and I stretched it out on a stringer. I saw the full spectrum: red to purple. Now, that being said, I'm pretty convinced this fuming technique works when the glass is thin. I haven't tried working with tube yet, since I'm very new, but I will revisit fuming on tubes in the near future.

Thank you all for your input!

[Mute]

So funny story. Yesterday, I gave up on trying to get those colors out of silver fume. Today, I fumed some silver and I stretched it out on a stringer. I saw the full spectrum: red to purple. Now, that being said, I'm pretty convinced this fuming technique works when the glass is thin. I haven't tried working with tube yet, since I'm very new, but I will revisit fuming on tubes in the near future.

Thank you all for your input!

blow the bubble thin, then open the end, fume light inside, wash and rinse/repeat, close end, shrink down/gather and you'll see the colors/silver migrating into the clear, the more u gather and the deeper the silver travels.

it's a shame people don't share more info here.

[Meerkat]

it's a shame people don't share more info here.

I would REALLY like to move back here along with the original members/crew that were on this board I dunno 10 years ago. I don’t like the Facebook scene for lampworking, it’s very toxic.

[fUmEsNiFfEr]

I'm with you Meerkat!

[gomilobster]

Believe that you are far from alone in wishing people would abandon facebook for a return to forums... Even MACA is needing to have people stop using the word "mushroom" for millie images because the posts are getting zucked by AI or whatever you want to call it. It isn't my place to say exactly, but I feel like if I got up off my ass and actually committed to trying to kinda maintain/update the board a bit and keep people acting at least civil to one another, and then also promoted the hell out of it on FB in an attempt to get newer people who don't even know it exists to start making accounts, see the info and history that is here, the much better vibe without most of the bullying, it could revitalize it.

But the thing is... it sure is a lot of work and time dedication all of its own. Also not work that is sure to pan out in the way one would want or think? Either way, every day I keep hoping that people leave facebook and try to find the roots of the online glass world... The trick would be to have this place in tip top shape for such an exodus, or I imagine some other established group would toss up a site and people would go with the familiar they know from facebook vs the amazing encyclopedia we have here. There is also the question of burnout and how long a person or people could maintain interest in keeping things seaworthy before they tire of keeping people friendly and helpful (like any online situation). Anyways I always love seeing people still tossing ideas and links around in here when I log in from time to time <3 keep it going!

[istandalone24/7]

agreed, Facebook is a complete shitshow when it comes to flame working, and sharing the info of. a popularity contest and non stop drama. i'd also love for talk glass to return to what it once was (and i came in pretty late at that, mid 2012).

on another note i should be getting another torch very very soon, so i'll probably post more often in the very near future.

[Meerkat]

I would be willing to take on the job of running the forums, of course it would require the permission of the original owner which is Misha.

I’m not even sure what happened, I had to be out of the glass scene for a while as I was in an emotionally abusive marriage and protecting my child then had to spend years going through divorce. So when I came back to these forums after many years of being gone, they were just dead. I read as much as I could as there was no mention of why they died, no mention of exodus to Facebook, no mention of people having issues of the forums they always enjoyed, no mention from the leaders of the forums, they were just abandoned as far as I could tell. Not even a mention of where to go.

So I just had to start trying to contact the few blowers I knew on Facebook and try to find out what happened which I never did and from there I learned of the Facebook forums. I found the couple that had the biggest amount of users and I immediately got kicked out one for literally trying to diffuse a huge flame war about politics or something and saying we should keep the group just to glass discussion.

It was next to impossible to find people from this forum on Facebook as they were not using their forum names but rather their Facebook names. Or rather a lot of people from this forum didn’t even bother moving over to Facebook thus the glass groups on Facebook were full of people that had no idea of who I was and saw me as a noob and gave me attitude and most everyone was posturing, bragging and saying they knew best. It was totally not the scene of helping one another that these forums had. Also each Facebook group had mods, many of which would be on power trips or have issues about what could be discussed or only their way of blowing glass was the correct way and you got kicked if you posted differently.

Lastly (at least for this post), these forums and the glass community in general always maintained and upheld the unwritten rule that our community of a skill and art was one that was kept fairly secret or within the community. Knowledge only to be shared with those definitely pursuing a passion and/or career in it. Resources to make it required a significant investment and for one to get ahold of the various literature available and to do lots of reading, studying, learning and practicing of the craft. This is really true of anything similar such as being a machinist.

And when this was the only forum and you really had to be in the know to find it and even then spend a lot of time reading, learning and getting in good with the community online to make it useful to yourself, it took effort. Now anyone curious can go on Facebook and be told exactly what to do and how to have a cheap and easy setup. I have seen SO many pics of people on Facebook doing glassblowing in their carpeted bedrooms (their bed is in the pics) using a MAPP gas torch and no ventilation. Plus Facebook is filled with glassblowing videos. I think the videos themselves are awesome, I’m not dissing Dustin for making these much needed videos. But I am dissing ya because these should never have been shown to the general public for free. These are our community secrets, our life blood and our incomes. They should have been behind an expensive paywall for subscribers IMO. Or if you want to make free videos sharing the craft, which I can totally get behind the concept of “all knowledge should be free” just like a library. I still feel they should be kept fairly secretive and just to be shared in places like this forum and not the most popular media platforms in existence.

[BORO]

[jethro]

I feel you Dondi, life took me away from glass for 12yrs too. I have never had Facebook and don’t want it. This forum and the few YouTube videos are where I learned everything. I definitely miss this place the way it was. But times change. It’s all good. I still come here when I have questions because this place is the Bible for glass knowledge if you utfse! �� Even if it isn’t busy and fun like it used to be.