Mass Production

[NUBBLET]

art vs craft is this the debate ? I am an artistic craftsman . I use my "expertness" in workmanship along with my creative power to produce a piece of work that is both visually pleasing and intriguing along with being structurally sound and durable .

I say if you are not in both you lack essential ingredients to be at the top of your game . They work together , only in this fucked up intardnet world do they conflict with each other .


Main Entry: 1craft
Pronunciation: \ˈkraft\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, strength, skill, from Old English cræft; akin to Old High German kraft strength
Date: before 12th century

1 : skill in planning, making, or executing : dexterity
2 a : an occupation or trade requiring manual dexterity or artistic skill <the carpenter's craft> <the craft of writing plays> <crafts such as pottery, carpentry, and sewing> b plural : articles made by craftspeople <a store selling crafts> <a crafts fair>
3 : skill in deceiving to gain an end <used craft and guile to close the deal>
4 : the members of a trade or trade association
5 plural usually craft a : a boat especially of small size b : aircraft c : spacecraft
synonyms see art


Main Entry: 2art
Pronunciation: \ˈärt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin art-, ars — more at arm
Date: 13th century

1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation <the art of making friends>
2 a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural : liberal arts b archaic : learning, scholarship
3 : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill <the art of organ building>
4 a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced b (1) : fine arts (2) : one of the fine arts (3) : a graphic art
5 a archaic : a skillful plan b : the quality or state of being artful
6 : decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter
synonyms art, skill, cunning, artifice, craft mean the faculty of executing well what one has devised. art implies a personal, unanalyzable creative power <the art of choosing the right word>. skill stresses technical knowledge and proficiency <the skill of a glassblower>. cunning suggests ingenuity and subtlety in devising, inventing, or executing <a mystery plotted with great cunning>. artifice suggests technical skill especially in imitating things in nature <believed realism in film could be achieved only by artifice>. craft may imply expertness in workmanship <the craft of a master goldsmith>.



I saw a dude sellin lil mushy pendants he got from Mexico for 30 cents each , selling them with black cord for 5 bucks . I cant compete with 30 cents each but I can clean the bottom and cap it along with make a decent loop and whatnot .

Quantity or quality is the real question .

[ALIEN!]

remember kids, interfere and meddle with every import business you find. Find a china pipe website? Find something wrong about it and report it to the host. Know where illegal import pipes will be coming in? Report them. Place fake 100,000 dollar orders with the import sellers. Sink a chinese cargo ship. Fuck with them at every opportunity. Sink a chinese cargo ship.

[HiAltitude]

Actually, the original post asked how to compete with cheap mass produced imports. Whatever.

[Slimy-E]

remember kids, interfere and meddle with every import business you find. Find a china pipe website? Find something wrong about it and report it to the host. Know where illegal import pipes will be coming in? Report them. Place fake 100,000 dollar orders with the import sellers. Sink a chinese cargo ship. Fuck with them at every opportunity. Sink a chinese cargo ship.

Lmao

[nodice]

....But when it comes to art, I mean art, it hurts the artist thats trying to make a living...

It's funny to me how well people use the word "art" to their advantage, weather they're trying to sell an idea or an object. I mean, that's the only reason the word really exists isn't it? So people can use it to their advantage? Are you a businessman or an artist? There have been lots of famous artists(probably more famous then anyone on this website will ever be) who had nothing to show for their lifes work when they died other then a bunch of people thinking their art sucked. Does that make their stuff any less art? Businessmen and salesmen throw around the word art for reasons that usually have little to do with anything other then making money or making themselves feel like they're better then other people. Like how you use the word art to make your stuff seem like it's better then the stuff a guy in china might make. Not that it isn't better in some way, but is his stuff any less "art" just because he gets paid less to make it?

[Slimy-E]

Andy Warhol believed in making art that was reprodicable or could be made in under a minute. He would change one color on each print and run off tons of them, each one an original. A quick scribble. There is a warhol muesum in pittsbugh, he always challanged what is art or what art is. I have no clue if im an artist or a craftsman or a pyromanicac- and honestly, I dont care.
(I like it when the ladies decide that im an artist though!)

[kage]

all i can say is that when i first started, i had a hard time selling to shops. two or three bought from me on the regular, but rarely got what i wanted out of the transactions. craft shows were the most successful. but when it came to making a living on my work, it was a matter of stepping up my game.
for instance, at one point i was making 4-7 pieces a night and feeling really proud about it. now i make 7 pieces an hr on avg. i don't take a break until i've got 10 in the kiln. cig after 10, safety break after 20, lunch after 30 etc. i used to have a "bench buddy" and we would race eachother for motivation, now i just race myself, watching the clock and aiming for $x$.

[The Lorax]

^ good post Kage.

I've been trying to step my game up, get rid of the excuses to go inside, layer up so i can't complain bout the cold, eat so i dont get hungry after making 1 piece... heh, i hate being my own boss as much as i like it sometimes..

[TheGlassTree]

let me tell you as a furnace worker these last two years have sucked! i have seen so manygreat shops in seattle take a serious nose dive or just close down all together... it happening brother low cost nontaxed imports made on a cheap labor force are killing the american industry! i have been a full time furnace worker for years and just a hobbyist lampworker and now i am doing everything in my power both in the hot shop and my own studio just to stay a full time glassblower instead of getting a Mcjob....

[HiAltitude]

Trying to compete over cheap products with a nation of well over 1 billion people who have a low cost of living and a state subsidized industry by upping one's own production of cheap products seems futile. And over-charging for cheap products ($5 for a .30 pendant) seems like a good way to alienate future customers. Seems like people need to offer something unique to justify the price... but maybe most customers can't judge quality, and only care about the low price.

Maybe the clothing industry is a better comparison. That's a sad thought.

[Bluebird]

Gotta give it up to Kage and HiAltitude. I try and see shit from different angles in life but I'm not being true to myself. I keep bouncing back and fourth with this matter. I went to a pipe shop the other day and spoke to some straight business dudes. I asked them if they want to do some biz and they asked me how much they would charge for certain pieces. Dude pulls out a descent looking piezo and asked me how much I would charge him for a piece like that and I replied... $35. Dude said then I would never do business with you cuz I get it from D.Town L.A for $15! Crazy shit man.

[CripSkillz]

I like to make less and sell for more,, but it has taken a while I was in the china competition boat for a while but i jumped ship and didnt sink.. so its game on.. more fun to make anything you want and be able to sell it.. Im not in it for the pay check but it is nice sometimes.. i guess thats what makes it so fun..

[kage]

Dude pulls out a descent looking piezo and asked me how much I would charge him for a piece like that and I replied... $35. Dude said then I would never do business with you cuz I get it from D.Town L.A for $15! Crazy shit man.

exactly. it may be china, it may be india, it may be the dude across town. but there will always be someone willing to do it cheaper than you.

if you are only offered $5 for something, then figure out a way to make it worth your time (cut prep, work straight off the tube, less rakes, less breaks etc.) tell them you'll do it at that price if they buy 50 or 100. or come to the table with a higher number knowing they will want it cheaper, and let them know that there is a price break if the quantity of their order exceeds x.

[bifwitsis209]

when i go into a shop and they have nothing but imports and wont give me 10 bucks for a bubbler i leave the store and sell stuff outside till they freak out.....word of mouth will have poeple looking for your stuff in no time.....they might be cops and pissed off shop owners but your case will get emptied quick.......

[NUBBLET]

And over-charging for cheap products ($5 for a .30 pendant) seems like a good way to alienate future customers. Seems like people need to offer something unique to justify the price... but maybe most customers can't judge quality, and only care about the low price.

Maybe the clothing industry is a better comparison. That's a sad thought.

It wasnt me , the guy didnt even work glass , and if you read what I said , you would notice I said I cant compete with that price but I can make something better as to justify why my work is more .

He went for quick uneducated sales , I will go for quality and sell to the educated market place . The vast majority of people are not the brightest , thankfully there are still enough people left with some kind of thought process still kickin , to give me a fair market .


I know this is not on topic

On the clothes thing , go into a cheap chain clothes store , say TJ Maxx or whatever , smell the clothes . They tend to have some funky ass fishy odor to them , but they are cheap . I will go for my t shirts and lounge pants to a place this is not an issue , even if I pay 5 bucks more .

[e. mort]

. They tend to have some funky ass fishy odor to them , but they are cheap . I will go for my t shirts and lounge pants to a place this is not an issue , even if I pay 5 bucks more .

Ok, so it isn't just me. I ordered some cloth bags to put my stuff in, and had to let them all air out because they smelled fishy too.

[dnug42]

well here we go again...yup yup la is a joke- you can get it all for nothing...tubes, db bubbs, proto- everyday whole blocks of warehouses- all not paying import tax- i saw iso spoons and onies for $2. wholesale...friggin a, thats ruff- but yea why dont they bust containers? who knows...lots of $$ to be scored by gov. but they jus look the other way... soft glass- forget it- there is so much of that sheet pouring into the country, its down right sad- same with every industry out there- i can say how many woodworkers have gone down because of imports- and nothing for nothing- most of the time its the lampworks whom care most about the glass- usually not the purchaser...well lets see what the CHAMPS (all american glass) has in store this year...hehe
goldy

[masterglaster]

The secret to survival?

Cultivate a taste for Kraft dinner and Ramen noodles.

[GlassFreak]

evolve

[NUBBLET]

evolve

I did , got gills now .