Invacare Oxygen Concentrators and Homefills

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-21-2012, 01:22 AM

I was thinking about it and I may want a second setup. Either a duplicate unit, or get an Ultrafill setup. I would do this for several reasons. If I was under high demand for oxygen, high production, I may need faster fill times. My second thought was to alternate the usage, to let one unit rest for a little while. This would reduce the wear and tear on each machine. So neither one will run 24/7. Maybe like every 36 to 48 hours, switch off? OxygenTech, What are your thoughts on this theory?

**Hollister** · 03-21-2012, 04:54 AM

Do you do rebuild exchange?

**OxygenTech** · 03-21-2012, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Hollister

Do you do rebuild exchange?

We repair our concentrators and homefills in house for a number of problems, and mostly those with easy solutions. If a unit needs a compressor rebuild or a new sieve bed, I have a local guy to me, in Riverside county, Homecare Tech Services, who does that work for us. He works on all types of units, last time I spoke to him, he quoted me $80 for a sieve re-pour, no matter what concentrator, with quantity 8.
He does work all over the country, he was telling me about a company that was shipping him product from Delaware.

**OxygenTech** · 03-21-2012, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Emmett's Glass

Are there any uses (more than scrap metal value) for the aluminum homefill tanks after the nipple has been removed? What about an extra tank with the nipple still intact?
E

There is more value in tank than just the nipple, yes. The valves have built in conserving devices (regulators that delivery oxygen on demand). I buy the nipples separate. A homefill bottle with a tank attached would cost more than simply filling a small oxygen bottle with the CGA540 thread on it. There is no reason you could not fill one of those smaller bottles, to 2000PSI, for a more portable use.
Say, for a demonstration or trade show or something.

**OxygenTech** · 03-21-2012, 10:40 AM

750 LBS @ 7:30 when I checked.

**Emmett's Glass** · 03-21-2012, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by OxygenTech

There is more value in tank than just the nipple, yes. The valves have built in conserving devices (regulators that delivery oxygen on demand). I buy the nipples separate. A homefill bottle with a tank attached would cost more than simply filling a small oxygen bottle with the CGA540 thread on it. There is no reason you could not fill one of those smaller bottles, to 2000PSI, for a more portable use.
Say, for a demonstration or trade show or something.

I was thinking if you had use for such things, some of us got some extra stuff when we got our homefills off craigslist.
E

**OxygenTech** · 03-21-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Emmett's Glass

Are there any uses (more than scrap metal value) for the aluminum homefill tanks after the nipple has been removed? What about an extra tank with the nipple still intact?
E

Originally Posted by Emmett's Glass

I was thinking if you had use for such things, some of us got some extra stuff when we got our homefills off craigslist.
E

I would be interested!

**Rockrat** · 03-22-2012, 07:15 PM

Homefills work great! Love mine.

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-22-2012, 07:48 PM

What happens to the water vapor in the air when it is processed by the oxygen concentrator? Does the water vapor get ejected from the machine along with the nitrogen or are we just hoping that it does not build up in appreciable quantities? I can imagine that small amounts of water would be extremely harmful, corroding away at the inside of a tank that will at times hold up to 2000 psi.

**styles1 torchlife** · 03-22-2012, 08:35 PM

I recommend using a timer with the homefill. I do 6hrs on 30min off. cycling
And run 4 tanks in series up to 1000psi or 1250psi and it should run a long time and support a good sized torch like delta.

**Swampy** · 03-22-2012, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by CoreysCollectables

What happens to the water vapor in the air when it is processed by the oxygen concentrator? Does the water vapor get ejected from the machine along with the nitrogen or are we just hoping that it does not build up in appreciable quantities? I can imagine that small amounts of water would be extremely harmful, corroding away at the inside of a tank that will at times hold up to 2000 psi.

Good question and very well presented. Personally, my plan is to keep a couple of rented tanks and swap them out every couple of months, keeping a record of the changes on a chalk board on the wall.

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-23-2012, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by styles1 torchlife

I recommend using a timer with the homefill. I do 6hrs on 30min off. cycling
And run 4 tanks in series up to 1000psi or 1250psi and it should run a long time and support a good sized torch like delta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreysCollectables
What happens to the water vapor in the air when it is processed by the oxygen concentrator? Does the water vapor get ejected from the machine along with the nitrogen or are we just hoping that it does not build up in appreciable quantities? I can imagine that small amounts of water would be extremely harmful, corroding away at the inside of a tank that will at times hold up to 2000 psi.

Good question and very well presented. Personally, my plan is to keep a couple of rented tanks and swap them out every couple of months, keeping a record of the changes on a chalk board on the wall.

Thank you both for your answers. Styles, I like the way you are thinking. I have 4 large bottles (300's) and had a plan to do the same. I am running a Herbert Arnold 40mm and a hand torch on the side. When a friend shows up, sometimes there is a third torch in the mix. I was thinking of putting a regulator manifold at the end of the chain to allow for 2 or more regulators to use the system. In theory, it should be in one side, out the other with some shut-off valves in between... I don't want to turn another wrench again! I will know soon if one homefill or 2 would best suit my needs. I still need to daisy chain the tanks together. I will keep you posted with pics and more info as my system develops.

Swampy, I hear what you are saying about swapping the rental tanks. My bottles are customer owned. I still need to make one more trip back to the welding store to make sure all of my tanks are swapped out for the one's with the yellow ID Ring. This insures that the bottle is in fact customer owned and you can swap it out anywhere. If it's not painted yellow, the tank is considered "asset owned" or a rental. You can only swap them out with that company. The welding supply store gets a huge fine for taking in a bottle that isn't theirs. Sometimes they don't have all customer owned bottles filled, so they give me asset owned one's instead. Since I now have this new system and won't be seeing them for a while. I want to be sure I am not locked in to any one company in the future. Who knows, they my delete my account cuz I haven't been in, managers will change, or I may move... Something ya know.

I may want to swap my bottles out once every year or so... It's not such a bad idea for safety. Kind of like swapping out the fuel and oxy hoses every year. Some things wear out over time. I am curious to see what OxygenTech has to say about the water vapor. It poses an interesting yet potentially dangerous theory. I wonder if the tank corroded from the inside, would it just leak or eventually explode during a fill?

**drew1492** · 03-23-2012, 07:24 AM

I think the zeolite absorbs a lot of the moisture in the incoming air. I wouldnt be that worried unless I was in a high humidity area but would swap my bottles once or twice a year.

**styles1 torchlife** · 03-23-2012, 09:34 AM

Just a heads up for everyone, you can have whips and hoses, swivels ect. Put together at any hose warehouse that will make hydraulic hoses while you wait.

Drew figured this out... And it is a easy way to get the job done safely and cheaply.(AND SAVED ME SOME TIME)

**minerdude** · 03-23-2012, 09:35 AM

Why not just put in a small inline air dryer with blow down valve like most people use with large air compressor setups? Place it in between the oxycons and homefill unit. Shit do they make air dryers for pure oxygen? Time for more online education I guess.

**drew1492** · 03-23-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by styles1 torchlife

Just a heads up for everyone, you can have whips and hoses, swivels ect. Put together at any hose warehouse that will make hydraulic hoses while you wait.

Drew figured this out... And it is a easy way to get the job done safely and cheaply.(AND SAVED ME SOME TIME)

I make no claims to figureing this out lots of people did this before me just in a different way. I just had an affordable supply of homefill II's.

Sorry for thread jacking

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-30-2012, 11:29 PM

Just a little update... I have been filling my bottles one at a time while I search for the best pricing for the rest of the fittings. It is going painfully slow. I calculated out the fill rate and OxygenTech was right. It fills at 1.97 LPM (that's the 2LPM that he quoted earlier). Unfortunately this means that running the Homefill continuously will only fill 3 bottles a week (300's). It was taking just about 55 machine hours to fill 1 tank from bottom to top. I was getting faster fill rates after the 500psi mark but slows down after 1500psi. It seems to go faster from 500 to 1000 than it does 0 to 500. I guess it needs some preasure to build on. So don't completely empty your tanks. There's really nothing to take pics of just yet cuz you've seen it all before, one bottle, one homefill... I will post some pics once I have my other fittings in place. Because of the painfully slow fill rates, I am going back to get another Homefill from OxygenTech. I use 3 to 4 bottles a week without thinking about it... I need to be producing the stuff at a slightly faster rate than I am using it, and have enough stored on the back-end to support a full day's work every day... I'll keep working on it and get back to you.

BTW: I talked with OxygenTech on the phone the other day and we discussed some of the questions I had proposed on this site. He said that it depended on the relative humidity of the environment. I live next to the ocean and we do see fog from time to time. He assured me that this would most likely not be much of a problem. However, if I was concerned with this, I could get a vacuum and suck out any moisture from the system every 6 to 12 months. We talked about Minerdude's dryer idea, and he said that was a nice creative solution as well. We also talked about the normal wear and tear of these machines, that is 3 to 4 hours a day. As glass workers, we push them hard to keep up with our usage.

Much love and many blessings,
~ Corey M.

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-30-2012, 11:53 PM

Oh and for the people that care about the #'s

1 bottle (300CUF) @ 55h (WTF!)
Average Life of Homefill: 6000h
Homefill Full @: 2000psi
Average bottles per Homefill: 100
Amortized cost of Homfill: $6/btl
Cost of electricity @ $0.11 Kw/h: $3/btl
Total Cost Per Bottle: $9/btl

This math isn't exactly perfect... I gave averages to make it easier to read, but you get the idea. I was spending $20/btl plus tax and fees. Then abut a 40mi round trip to go trade the suckers out. I am easily saving half of my oxygen monies! Let's just see how long this thing lasts. I have seen some of the other oxygen compressors out there and they are a bit more expensive, however could be worth the investment. Looking into the one from Hong Kong that I saw in another thread. Pricey thou. The homefills are defiantly an affordable way to get into the OxyCon game!

Running Constantly, the Homefill will reach 6000h in just a little under a year!
This is why I want to get 2 and switch off the usage... Keeping the pressure down around 1000 to 1500 will hopefully prolong their life a little bit as well.

There are many options out there for oxygen... you just got to find the one that fits your glass schedule and usage.

**Swampy** · 03-31-2012, 11:50 AM

Good one. Thanks for doing the maths, it's a lot clearer to see the benefit. Especially like how I pay US$45 per 220 cu ft tank, soon I'll have the system set up here.

It says;
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CoreysCollectables again.

**CoreysCollectables** · 03-31-2012, 04:48 PM

Thanks for the Reps Swampy! Much appreciated as I am just getting started here. If your usage is low, 1 Homefill will do, but if you blow glass for a living on a serious torch, then get 2 homefills. This is what I am learning. OxygenTech is going to figure out if I will need a second OxyCon or of 1 OxyCon will be able to run 2 homefills. If so I could save a little money on the OxyCon. I will get back to you with more info later.

I am glad that my experience is helping others. It was Metalbone's hard work years ago that I was reading thru and discovered that I wanted to try the homefill solution. We are all standing on the backs of giants. Thanks to everyone that makes this forum possible and everyone that participates. You are doing the glass community a great service!

Much love and many blessings,
~ Corey M.