Ronnie's progression thread

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

Also, isn't the sun annoying as shit in there? Fucker makes the flame pretty much invisible.

Lol,it would be but I only work at night it really is quite a enjoyable work space under the open stars

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 07:16 PM

No. You're shooting all the toxic shit right at the fan. It's grabbing it all immediately and pushing it out. You can even build a box around the fan to make sure you catch everything.\

My first studio

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

No. You're shooting all the toxic shit right at the fan. It's grabbing it all immediately and pushing it out. You can even build a box around the fan to make sure you catch everything.\

My first studio

What about just mounting a more powerful fan to the edge of my work bench and not blocking off window?

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 07:27 PM

It'll be like 10% as efficient so, no.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

It'll be like 10% as efficient so, no.

I don't understand why it would be less efficient. Same fan only a few inches closer to me and a whole door to vent out of.
Also what fan. If I have so many open doors do I really need a fan to replace the air as well?

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 07:53 PM

You're not getting the core concept here. You should do some research on fluid dynamics and then come back and try again.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

You're not getting the core concept here. You should do some research on fluid dynamics and then come back and try again.

Look I've done enough research and NOTHING really applies to my situation at least nothing I can find in a reasonable amount of time ( 6 hrs looking for same question is not acceptable) and the responses I'm getting also contradict each other. on THIS forum I've found info saying a lit cig can tell u your good if its smoke is easily pushed out. I'm getting absolutely NO musty smell or build up. And any more wind in my studio and I wouldn't be able to control my flame. Maybe that's why I can't melt my color fast. Either way if anyone else wants to tell me just to do " reasearch" please don't bother to comment in this thread. I making this thread because I COULD NOT Find the info I needed with MONTHs of research and I thought I had it right but apparently not. So I would like to fix it but I want to know the right way and why its that way.

Can you honestly tell me there is a thread here telling me why I shouldn't a full door to vent instead of a small box. Also what thread here addreses a glass room with more then 8 full open sliders and an open roof. I've even looked for " outside ventilation" with almost no info anywhere here. So I'm a little frustrated I appreciate good advice but " do more reasearch" is no help to someone who has already taken the time. Sucks I can't find the info but I have looked and I made that clear in my first post. So I don't mean to be rude I really don't but I'm asking questions I could not find on my own.

I'm not trying to be a pain but I truly feel my situation is unique or at least unique enough my answer is not readily available anywhere I've looked. And I have no one in my area I know who can help so I'm on here.

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 08:44 PM

Have you tried looking off of this board? Like on the concept of fluid dynamics like I suggested? If the fan is not sealed into the window it is going to use the little cracks as make up air and suck the fumes right back in. Having a controlled flow is a million times more efficient than opening the damn windows. I can keep telling you how it is and you can keep not believing me. Or, you can do some research on the basic concept of fluid dynamics like I suggested and actually have an understanding on what I'm talking about. I've given you a description of the exact setup you need to accomplish this. I'm sorry you don't like it for whatever reason. I've spoon-fed you the answer and then after you continued to question it I pointed you towards the information you need to help you understand it. You claim to have done research. Great. It very, very clearly was not enough, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

**Jeffs Pieces** · 08-23-2012, 09:13 PM

http://www.marinechemist.com/documen...ingExhaust.pdf

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...RDS&p_id=10699

these still apply, I was sent this link by a member to get ya up to speed, If you dont get proper ventilation, you WILL hurt yourself. I have known some of the posters here for years and years, they are good people trying to help you, if ya have any questions ask away, Just please be safe.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

Have you tried looking off of this board? Like on the concept of fluid dynamics like I suggested? If the fan is not sealed into the window it is going to use the little cracks as make up air and suck the fumes right back in. Having a controlled flow is a million times more efficient than opening the damn windows. I can keep telling you how it is and you can keep not believing me. Or, you can do some research on the basic concept of fluid dynamics like I suggested and actually have an understanding on what I'm talking about. I've given you a description of the exact setup you need to accomplish this. I'm sorry you don't like it for whatever reason. I've spoon-fed you the answer and then after you continued to question it I pointed you towards the information you need to help you understand it. You claim to have done research. Great. It very, very clearly was not enough, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This was actually helpful. However I'm not again tring to be a pain and yes I have read but I obviously have nt been able to find an explanation that made it clear to me . This one was and I thank you but it still does not answer my question as to if the other does should be open, I'f I still need another fan to pull in air when there is already so much air available to me and also what power fan.

And again why is the cigaret test and no musty smell not enough to tell my my ventilation is fine? That's info I found ON THIS Site.

And while I'm in the room I can feel the air move so much my torch is constantly in flux so I don't get why that's not enough when I can clearly see smoke move away from me quicker then I can breathe it in.

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 09:34 PM

Iunno about a musty smell. Poor ventilation smells like an indoor pool. If you set a smoke bomb off under your torch every last smidge of smoke should form basically a stream to your fan and immediately exit. In regards to what other windows you should have open, as I said in my first post in this thread, One behind you somewhere will be enough. You want to form a wind tunnel basically so that everything is flowing towards the fan.

Research general fluid dynamics. There are HVAC calculators that will tell you how big of a fan you need. I already told you an attic fan would work in this thread.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff3355

http://www.marinechemist.com/documen...ingExhaust.pdf

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...RDS&p_id=10699

these still apply, I was sent this link by a member to get ya up to speed, If you dont get proper ventilation, you WILL hurt yourself. I have known some of the posters here for years and years, they are good people trying to help you, if ya have any questions ask away, Just please be safe.

Thank you for your help and I have no doubt they are trying to help but it feels like no one is even reading my post. It's rather frustrating. Those links are VERY helpful. Im not trying to be spoon fed anything I just have not been able for whatever reason to find info I need . And I asked very clearly not to be told to research as I have and I've waisted so much time nt finding the right answer.

I thought I had but obviously I was wrong which is fine but I just want helpful advice and not smart ass do you research comments. I've spent at least 4-6 hrs a week researching for the last six months and this site can be really difficult finding the right info. Like I've been trying to find how to attach silver to a quartz rod for fuming and can't find it anywhere.

And this is not a great way to start a progression thread whole things messed up now. People ask me to go read but they can't read my very first post so it's just frustrating.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

Iunno about a musty smell. Poor ventilation smells like an indoor pool. If you set a smoke bomb off under your torch every last smidge of smoke should form basically a stream to your fan and immediately exit. In regards to what other windows you should have open, as I said in my first post in this thread, One behind you somewhere will be enough. You want to form a wind tunnel basically so that everything is flowing towards the fan.

Research general fluid dynamics. There are HVAC calculators that will tell you how big of a fan you need. I already told you an attic fan would work in this thread.

Maybe I should have explained one thing about me is when it comes to mechanical shit I'm the worst guy to go. So when you say attic fan all I think is there must be a hundred types and sizes and I have no clue where to start. Your fluid. Dynamics search term is EXTREMLY helpful and is exactly what I mean when I say I don't always know what term to search for and I thank you for it. Ive been lingering on this forum for so long the last thing I wanted to do was come across wrong to the community and make a bad first impression which is why again I said pleas don't take my words or questions the wrong way as I know I'm not good at communicating in text form.

So again I thank you

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 09:49 PM

Why in the fuck would you be trying to use quartz as a fuming rod? Also, I've read all of your posts. If you had done pretty much any research you would not have been asking the questions you asked after already getting the answers you need. You claim to not want to be spoon-fed, but that's exactly what I just did. Shit, you want me to link you to home depot's attic fan section? Everything I know about ventilation came from this site. I'm not sure why my first attempt at venting a studio looks so different from yours.

I'm sorry you found my "Do research on fluid dynamics" a smart ass response. I figured, apparently you aren't searching for the right thing in the right place. Fluid dynamics is the basis for everything about ventilation. It explains how air moves when just the windows are open via differences in air pressure, as well as explains how to properly mechanically ventilate a space. If instead of coming back on here and yelling at me for telling you to research you'd taken my advice, you wouldn't STILL be asking questions that you can easily answer with a tiny little bit of research.

Basically, I'm done here. I feel like I had to explain molecular theory to a toddler to teach them to tie their shoes.

**ronnieclaymusic** · 08-23-2012, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

Why in the fuck would you be trying to use quartz as a fuming rod? Also, I've read all of your posts. If you had done pretty much any research you would not have been asking the questions you asked after already getting the answers you need. You claim to not want to be spoon-fed, but that's exactly what I just did. Shit, you want me to link you to home depot's attic fan section? Everything I know about ventilation came from this site. I'm not sure why my first attempt at venting a studio looks so different from yours.
I'm sorry you found my "Do research on fluid dynamics" a smart ass response. I figured, apparently you aren't searching for the right thing in the right place. Fluid dynamics is the basis for everything about ventilation. It explains how air moves when just the windows are open via differences in air pressure, as well as explains how to properly mechanically ventilate a space. If instead of coming back on here and yelling at me for telling you to research you'd taken my advice, you wouldn't STILL be asking questions that you can easily answer with a tiny little bit of research.

Basically, I'm done here. I feel like I had to explain to a toddler molecular theory to teach them to tie their shoes.

I don't know how you took that as a direct statement towards you if you continue to read you will see I said I really appreciate your comment about fluid dynamics and that it was helpful. But whatever it took forever for some one to actually give me a useful statement which was actually you TikQ so again I'm sorry if i come across the wrong way. But my specific question was about opening all the glass doors and nobody seemed to get that except you.

As far as quartz I read somewhere I don't know if it was this site that quartz works well because of the high melt temp

**Matt P** · 08-23-2012, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by TlkQ

Why in the fuck would you be trying to use quartz as a fuming rod?

seriously? I was under the impression it was practically common.

**TlkQ** · 08-23-2012, 10:18 PM

I mean if you have quartz laying around I guess why not. I use a piece of 9 mil or some cobalt and it works just fine.

**Matt P** · 08-23-2012, 10:22 PM

Cobalt I've also heard, and meant to use. Stiffer than clear, but certainly not quartz. I use a 7mm rod of boro, and well, it'd be nice if it was stiffer, but certainly not necessary. Anyway, I didn't mean to dip into this conversation...

All that matters is, ventilation should be one of those most important aspects of your setup, ESPECIALLY when fuming is involved.

**Chad S** · 08-23-2012, 10:23 PM

^^ Rookie you are correct.. Why the fuck "Wouldn't" you use a quartz rod for fuming?

The melting temp is much higher with quatrz, so it doesn't melt up as fast over your silver on the end of your rod when fuming in the flame. Using a boro rod for fuming is a pain in the ass!

**Matt P** · 08-23-2012, 10:29 PM

Also Ronnie, those spoons are looking good. I always like seeing color melted in nice and well in early work threads, its a rarity to see! Granted, I'm not sure why its taking you 2 hours to get there. The only question I could think to help figure it out is, if you were to make a completely clear piece out of 25x4, how long would that take? No color, no fume, no nothing. Just clear glass, pull a stem, puff out mouthpiece, blow bowl bubble, pop hole(s) and push bowl, finish mouthpiece, voila. What's the time for that? Lets not forget about the ventilation issues, but I'd like to know why your spoons take 2 hours. I now make in 12 minutes what used to take 25, and I can make in 30 what used to take an hour, so I know that things start out much slower and than rapidly speed up with experience, but 2 hours is a loooong time. I mean no disrespect, just trying to help. And you are on a lynx no less? Hmm... have you worked with many other glass blowers or on other torches? Again, pieces looked good Ronnie!