Red Max (premix or surface) or Knight Bullet Burner

[TlkQ]

I ran a k tank out in 8-10 hours on my surface mix Max. I run a K out now in 9-11 hours on my Phantom. I can get a lot done in 8 hours.

Also, you're getting straight ROBBED on oxy prices. I would never pay more than $30 a tank and that's double what I get them for now.

[Mr.P0rn]

I don't pay $60, lol. But that's what it would cost me if I went to Airgas and got one. i didn't even like paying 28 from Proxair, thats why im going with a concentrator now. I figured I would go homefill..but after doing the math, homefill was looking terrible for my needs. If this guy wants to do 10-12 hour shifts of practice like I did, and he goes homefill..he might be dissapointed. The other thing you guys are ignoring is that if he goes homefill...that tank won't ever be more than half full. Unless I am mistaken (which is possible, because this is from research, not from using a homefill), the efficiency of the homefill degrades after about half of the tank, as it has to push against the back pressure to fill the tank, causing the second half of the tank to take MUCH longer, which is an issue....when homefills need rebuilt as often as they do.

I was not ever trying to argue that a Redmax isn't a fine torch to use, or that you cant do any work in the time it takes a redmax to drain a half a tank...I was simply looking at the desires of the OP, and doing my best to give him good information, so he might make a choice that he is happy with in the end. That should be what we all try to do, as opposed to being so worried about proving each other wrong, or looking right on the internet (this isn't aimed at anyone, this is just a general statement)

[GoodVibesWooly]

I will only be working for about 5-6 hours a day. Homefill will be able to keep me going I think. I love this thread so much. Thanks guys. Still looking for tools and glass

[TlkQ]

Once again, If you want a Redmax, go with it. But consider this. A couple of weeks ago, the price of a K tank went up to $60 for me. I was ALREADY paying too much.

So this was a lie? You used this as evidence against a Redmax. Just because one of the suppliers in your area is annihilating people with prices doesn't mean this dude is going to pay as much per tank. At $60 a tank and 8 hours to run one dry you average $7 and change an hour. At $15 [What I pay] a tank and 8 hours a tank you average just under $2 a tank. I'd say that's a rather large difference.

It's not cool to exaggerate in order to bolster your point. It's called supplying misinformation.

[Mr.P0rn]

Whats the problem today Tlkq? You seem to really wanna argue with me or something. If you look at my posts, I said that my oxy supplier shut down, and that only left airgas, who then raised their prices to $60. I have -never- bought a tank from Airgas, nor will I, especially at $60 a pop. That doesn't mean that I didn't call them to check prices. I also said that as a result of this, I was going with a concentrator. In my specific case, the concentrator would cost me WAY less than a homefill, and I am only trying to show how I came to that conclusion, in case it helps someone else.

Why read my posts, then attempt to pull them apart just with the purpose of causing an issue? I hope whatever is causing stress with you subsides. Besides, the prices I pay for Oxy won't affect this guy, obviously. I was just stating how I came to figure out that for ME, homefill would not have met my needs, and a concentrator was a better choice. Once again, I am only trying to provide usefull information to this person. I assumed he wanted to work for 10-12 hour days based on how his original post was worded. He has since posted to say that is not the case, meaning a homefill likely would meet his needs, especially since he will be using the topper more often than not. No hard feelings Tlkq.

[BORO]

A blanket statement like " every new worker wastes gas" or " a tank can last days on a red max "

Will not help anyone new to this game. For real , I understand exactly what jr said , and means ... But I have a basic understanding of gas use. Jr even corrected himself with a counter argument , the one I am reiterating .... Some one new could easily breeze past that part ... Selective reading? miss communication?

If you are making production ,if you are learning ....
If you are efficient , a 220cf k tank might get you a day and a half making basic full size spoons... Two days tops ( 20 hours? ) , working correct on a red max IMO .....

If you know nothing about glass and torches .., and take part of jr's advice to heart on a budget and all...(even if that was not the point of his post )

1. It will take you forever to produce glass, very discouraging . You will reduce everything , hard to make a nice product like this.

2. You very well may melt your new toy with soft lazy flames . They will not push the heat away from the torch head , it has happened before , will happen again . This hobby will cost you money period. Trying to save a few bucks based on one persons gas savings may cost you more in the end



3. It is all about what you make. Out side color melts in fast , thick ISo will take hotter flames , and longer melt in times. Tiny spoons take less heat , pendants Ect....And the smaller flame / torch head ...may very well get tanks to last you for days....

Why I would choose a pre mix "rider" torch ...

I personally could not get by day to day on the minor torch for my " pin point flame" only a premix rider not a "mini cc" or "minor" size flame will give me the range to go as small and precise as I need for basic detail , and construction ( pendant loops and such) if you really need to save fuel , time and want the best product you can make....I say premix .

Why I would choose a "minor style" rider torch.(bullet center fire )

Again just like the rest of this post , my opinion .... You may be able to work almost all your glass on a "minor" because it can go a little bigger , and get you by with less gas over all ... I still think you will work slower , and less precise.... You may not notice the lack of tiny flames if this is all you know. As your skills grow , you will be left wanting more range/ tiny flames.....in the end this way ( minor rider) may take you more time? Less gas ? IMO of course.

Or go minor rider , plus a small pre mix hand torch , and have it all.....

[istandalone24/7]

This makes no sense at all. You realize the Red Max comes with a rider right? You realize you can run the rider without the big flame running right? Just like you can run the centerfire of a torch without running the outerfire. The Red Max by definition is a 2-stage torch.

THIS makes no sense at all. did you even read what i posted? i'll cut and paste it for you in case you missed it:

" of course you can get the minor rider, or the premix rider but almost everyone decides they want a two stage in the end...might as well start out with one"

in what world does that not make sense?

[TlkQ]

Because with the minor rider or the pre-mix rider, which come on the redmax from the factory, the redmax is by definition a 2 stage torch. So basically you're saying they can get a 2 stage torch, but they'll end up wanting a 2 stage torch in the end

And yeah, I obviously read what you posted. I even quoted it in my post. You seem to think a redmax is just a 44 jet burner. That that is how it comes from the factory. You seem to think the rider torch has to be purchased separately. This is what you said:

^^all that is why i recommend a two stage. 99% of the time you use the centerfire.....and with a redmax that is 44 ports burning at once. of course you can get the minor rider, or the premix rider but almost everyone decides they want a two stage in the end...might as well start out with one.

Can you explain the underlined part of the quote to me? Why wouldn't the 7 port rider torch be equivalent to most torches 7 port centerfire? You know, the rider that comes on the Redmax from the factory. Why would you choose to equate the Redmax's lower, larger flame to another torches inner, smaller flame?

A redmax is 2 torches. 2. Two. It has a large torch and a small torch. This makes it a 2 stage torch. I think you need to do some more research on torches before you start spreading misinformation.

[istandalone24/7]

i think everyone will agree with me when i say and inner/outer is easier/better/hotter then a topfire/bottomfire. i've never heard of a major/minor being called two stage...that's just a torch with a top mounted rider.
imo/ime inner/outer = two stage.

[istandalone24/7]

...and i think you need to either rub one out or have a safety break and coffee. you seem argumentative this morning.

pretty much every blower i've met has referred to an inner/outer as two stage, i can't say the same about top/bottom. but by all means lets split some fucking hairs this morning. sheesh.

[GoodVibesWooly]

First I just want to say thank you to everyone for trying to help. It means a lot. At the same time we're getting a little off-topic guys. I'm smart enough to make my own decisions on my own equipment. Don't get me wrong, I love the extra information because even the tiniest bit can change someone's choice in equipment. But I've been doing research for at least five months and I have made all of my decisions already. And I hate to see so many people arguing over this subject. It's all good guys at the same time though, I'm lovin how SAWSY you guys are.


So let's get back on topic. Does anyone have any tools or glass they would like to sell? Also I'm still trying to find a good deal on a red max

[istandalone24/7]

check out the "lampworkers classifieds" and the similar groups on facebook. someone almost always has one of those for sale.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/153007134823614/

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/201609669942014/

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/304708892984914/

[talonst]

Because with the minor rider or the pre-mix rider, which come on the redmax from the factory, the redmax is by definition a 2 stage torch.

Can't agree with this. The Redmax is an over and under, 2 separate torches. You don't have the same flame possibilities with it as say a CC where the premix center and surface outer can be mixed together. Not saying the Red Max isn't a fine torch for $$.

[istandalone24/7]

^^pretty much what i was saying too!!

[GoodVibesWooly]

THANKS istandalone! I know this may sound stupid but how do I post in these groups? For some reason after I join the group all it shows me is the description and members. No newsfeed.

And does anyone know the safest way to have something shipped from a private seller? I figured PayPal

[istandalone24/7]

i think you need to be "approved" by the admin, which takes sometimes a couple hours until they log on.

do you mean the safest shipping method, or safest payment method?

[istandalone24/7]

paypal for payments, and i pretty much only trust usps priority these days.

[GoodVibesWooly]

Both! But mostly payment. I refuse to spend hundreds of dollars and get fucked.

But I'm super excited. Why have I never turned to FB before? Lol. I've just been using IG

[istandalone24/7]

paypal is very safe, although be careful if collecting payment for smokeware. paypal has a no paraphinalia policy, so if you invoice someone use "glass art" or something like it.

[GoodVibesWooly]

Thanks!! Also does anyone have any good arguments for a Cheetah? Would I be better off with a Cheetah or a Red Max. I would like to be doing some vac staks within my first year btw