Red Max (premix or surface) or Knight Bullet Burner

[828glass]

^^all that is why i recommend a two stage. 99% of the time you use the centerfire.....and with a redmax that is 44 ports burning at once. of course you can get the minor rider, or the premix rider but almost everyone decides they want a two stage in the end...might as well start out with one.

this is quite possibly the most misinformed quote i have read all year, and your still trying to argue that the red max isn't the same as a 2 stage torch?

[istandalone24/7]

it isn't. two stage = inner/outer....pretty much by definition.
a top/bottom is basically two seperate torches....you can't really run them together (of course some do, with varying degrees of success) unless you modify the base so that they point at the same spot.

a two stage torch, is a smaller torch, with a larger ring (or rings) around it. not too hard to comprehend.

[Mr.P0rn]

Just for sake of information, when my shopmate sold his redmax, he went with the cheetah, and he LOVES it. It is CONSIDERABLY hotter. In my -personal opinion- the triple mix is the way to go. Personally, the only torch I would want to use besides a GTT is a Herbie, and I'm not even sure if I will feel that way once the compressed air attachment becomes readily available through GTT. I want to say that the Cheetah uses less oxy than the Redmax, but I can't quickly find the oxy consumption chart....so I'm not going to say that, but I THINK that's the case. I know my shopmate certainly can melt shit in, and get shit done WAY faster. The only downfall to a cheetah is that the pinpoint isn't AS good as the Lynx, but certainly isn't bad.

[GoodVibesWooly]

Would I be able to pull off tube pulls on the cheetah?? About how thick can it go?

Also, I don't care if a red max is considered 2 stage or not. You are JUST arguing for the sake of argument. I appreciate your help but if you are going to continue bitching at each other, then PM each other.

STILL lookin for tools and now I am considering a cheetah. What do you guys think?

[GoodVibesWooly]

Would I be able to pull off tube pulls on the cheetah?? About how thick can it go?

Also, I don't care if a red max is considered 2 stage or not. You are JUST arguing for the sake of argument. I appreciate your help but if you are going to continue bitching at each other, then PM each other.

STILL lookin for tools and now I am considering a cheetah. What do you guys think?

[Mr.P0rn]

As always, it will depend on the size of the tube, but you can even do tube pulls on a Lynx. The big difference between triple mix torches and others is the penetrating heat. The Red Max will build a nice even heat base, but it takes a lot longer to heat THROUGH the thickness of the glass. This isn't to say that a Cheetah won't build a nice heat base, or that the redmax won't heat all the way through, just a difference in how the heat is applied by the torch. If I were you, I would go with a Cheetah, but keep in mind I am on a Lynx (although My shop started with a single redmax, which was sold for a cheetah, everyone likes it more) In fact, if it makes you feel better, PM me, my shopmate is a Talk Glass member, but never posts. I am sure he would talk to you about the torches and answer any questions you had.

[bluto]

I had a red Max with Mega rider for a little over a yeat I liked It until I got the basics down then i wished it was a full two stage ( meaning the two stages not changing the work angle and have to shut the first "stage" off sucked) I really liked the set up but it got to slow for me in the melting time like melting in lines. I read were some were running it in the 35-40 psi on oxy I was around 15-20 maybe that was the case?

Once I tried a lynx I knew I needed that heat base and sold the Max and got a cheetah and was more then impressed on its size/capabilities and how much I could have the same flame as before slower that allows more pause time in the flame without misshaping the piece and have a hotter driving flame to work faster. not sure but I think the person that had it before me did stick stacks or something in that nature

[GoodVibesWooly]

Thank you guys so much! Wow! I think I might be changing my mind. The cheetah might be what's right for me. Also considering that in the future I would like to run a bigger GTT torch so getting used to the triple mix system now would be prudent. And Mr. Porn, I would love to talk to him if you could get him to PM me. I would love to know what he works on on a daily basis and what are some of the limitations of the torch because at the same time I could pay $75 more and get a bullet burner. So I suppose I would have to find a good deal on a cheetah to really want to buy it. I'm trying to keep the cost of my torch under $500. Ugh. Fuck my budget lol

[Mr.P0rn]

If I were you, and I wanted to spend under $500...I would get a Lynx. GTTs hold value if you take care of them. I would buy a Lynx, save up some more money, and sell the Lynx when you could get a Cheetah, or whatever bigger torch you want. Another question is...what is your expierence on a torch? Are you just starting? Because if you are...then I reiterate the rest of this message :P

[TlkQ]

it isn't. two stage = inner/outer....pretty much by definition.
a top/bottom is basically two seperate torches....you can't really run them together (of course some do, with varying degrees of success) unless you modify the base so that they point at the same spot.

a two stage torch, is a smaller torch, with a larger ring (or rings) around it. not too hard to comprehend.

Define a stage in regards to a torch.

[828glass]

i wonder how manny thousands of your posts are lacking this much knowledge or awareness in general

[istandalone24/7]

jesus fuck, let it go. dude doesn't want this shit in his thread, BRA.

ask about any flameworker what a two stage torch is and they'll probably refer to a cc, a mirage or the like. what they probably won't refer to, is a major minor.

i'm done trying to argue with these children.

[TlkQ]

Yep. Call us children and neglect to respond to my question. Debate at it's finest.

[istandalone24/7]

it's called moving on...dropping the subject and getting out of this dudes want add. i know it's hard to comprehend....someone who doesn't want to argue you.

[TlkQ]

More like someone who doesn't want to admit they were wrong. You equated the RedMax's centerfire to it's 44 port large burner and used that as evidence that it's an oxy-hog. That's called spreading misinformation. Newbies deserve to know the real facts. If you had equated a centerfire to the redmax's rider, which as far as oxy consumption is concerned would be a much fairer comparison, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You obviously have something against the 'Max for one reason or another. Don't let your personal opinions exaggerate the "facts" you lay out in an attempt to "help" someone.

[D. dino i ninjah]

Get the Knight if you can ... Mine (dragon fire) lasted over 12 years of full time use in the worst environments ever.. and I got it used from some one who bought it as a factory refurbished one .. They are tanks .. but I am willing to bet the knight is capable of using more oxy than a red max .. however I doubt you have to run it at full bore all the time .. If it were me and the choice was a Knight or a red max .. I'd get the Knight .... they are so solid ..

[neddowerx]

Ok, this is bugging me- although I run a gtt kobuki, and have run many others including the new Bethlehems and back in the day run carlisle cc's and am not partial towards Nortel burners the fact of the matter is a redmax IS a two stage burner. It has nothing to do with " centerfire and outerfire", it has to do with one small stage and another bigger stage on one burner. A redmax is such a burner, hense "dual stage". And I also recommend these such dual stage burners to newbies often as they are as capable as a cc at a considerable lower cost. Like most things its to each their own, but the fact is when talking " stages" of a torch it is saying how many different size flames that available on the burner, not how they are built. I have 16+ years melting boro, and have owned every type of torch ( carlisle, GTT,Herbert Arnold, Bethlehem, and even Nortel for some students and knight's are like carlisles.

[neddowerx]

The bullet is nice, it has the 7 port centerfire, and 14 port outerfire. I would rather this than a premix cc... A gtt phantom is not such a big step up. Did you get one?