Kultureglass pin tool vs original Vin-Pin

[VinE]

EDIT: conversation moved from sales thread to a discussion forum. Original thread here. http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showt...tools-for-sale!!

Damn that's a cuthroat price on the vin-pins. I hope some slave is getting their fair share in whatever country these are manufactured in. Great idea BTW. Where did you come up with the idea to make a pin frog with a graphite base? Do the pins come out too? If not what's the dif. between your pinfrog and a brass one that I can get for $8 on amazon? ;
http://www.amazon.com/Panacea-Round-.../dp/B00627HD64

[kultureglass]

With all due respect, I manufacture and machine these myself. MADE IN THE USA~!!! Yes the pins come out of course I aim to produce a quality tool at an affordable price for every Flame worker alike. Peace and God Bless!!

[neddowerx]

I think I need a square or rectangle shape one for even coverage over a tube.

[neddowerx]

Stainless pins right?

[istandalone24/7]

unless things have changed, the pins in this Kulture tools are actually finish nails. which annoyed me at first, until i used them. they function perfectly, and can be replaced at the local hardware store.

both devices (vin pin and kulture) have theirr ups and downs. personally i like the vin pin (the real vin pin) rectangle, 2" x 4", but it wasn't cheap. i purchased the kulture tool first, due to cost. 3 months later i got the vin.

much like beth/gtt/nortel/whatever, each have good points and bad points. both are useful, and i'm thankful to have both.

[VinE]

Anyone who supports knockoffs that are made with labor/materials that are less than the living wage ($15 an hour), should take a hard look at what they place value on. Where's the graphite coming from Kulture? You doing all the manufacturing yourself or finishing off what some sweatshop workers started? Post detailed videos and pics of you and your manufacturing process so we can all take you at your word, otherwise we have to trust that you are being straightforward an honest, which is hard considering that you are stealing other peoples designs and calling them your own. I have no problem with competition, but without innovation. Its just a copy of the original at a cutrate price with questionable quality.

[VinE]

Istandalone what don't you like about my design? Ide be happy to get some feedback to help r&d for some of the new patterns I have for the #VINPIN #VINPINTOOL

[oG Glocc Coma]

VinE I have a few ideas that might kick your design to the next level, I know there is a need for the improvements i'm asking for and I'd purchase the first one made if you'd like.

PM me and we can talk! don't want to just throw my ideas out here.

[PyroChixRock]

Personally, I would like to see Kultureglass stop offering this design. Not all of us can afford patents, nor should we have to, and Vine shouldn't have to compete with a knockoff. This industry is growing, but that doesn't mean we should start stepping on others to get where we want to be. Work together. Kultureglass has plenty of other items to offer, he doesn't need to sell knockoffs.

Kulture, would you reconsider offering this item for sale? Instead, point people to Vine's.

[istandalone24/7]

Istandalone what don't you like about my design? Ide be happy to get some feedback to help r&d for some of the new patterns I have for the #VINPIN #VINPINTOOL

i think you may have misinterpreted what i typed (or i mistyped)...i like the vin pin better.
what i don't like about the kulture tool is that it has a very tight (pins are tight) graphite plate (and uses finish nails for the "pins") that when you go to change the pin layout, it's VERY easy to break it in half.

[istandalone24/7]

Personally, I would like to see Kultureglass stop offering this design. Not all of us can afford patents, nor should we have to, and Vine shouldn't have to compete with a knockoff. This industry is growing, but that doesn't mean we should start stepping on others to get where we want to be. Work together. Kultureglass has plenty of other items to offer, he doesn't need to sell knockoffs.

Kulture, would you reconsider offering this item for sale? Instead, point people to Vine's.

what constitutes a knock off?
not trying to smack a bee hive, but when HVO came out with a system, people said it was too expensive and rushed to build them cheaper (and some have).
there isn't only one brand foot pedal. there isn't only blast shield bowl pushes. i'm honestly at a loss.

putting "vin" in the title was in poor taste, and he's (kulture) fixed that.

[istandalone24/7]

the only "downside" to the vin pin is the price, but considering what some diamond shears cost, it really isn't too expensive.

both tools have their place. my kulture pin tool is my "knock around" pin frog, my 2" x 4" vin pin (the real one) is kept in a drawer...it's so nice (and doesn't feel cheap...the kulture feels cheap) i only bring it out once in a while, and not even that often do i use a pin tool. i don't do a lot of airtraps.

[PyroChixRock]

You're right, but the fact that he called it a vin-pin makes me think he got the idea by looking at vine's design. He has plenty of tools to offer us, why step on vine's toes? Vine has one thing, he doesn't need someone treading on his original design.

[330G]

I agree with all this thread. But im wondering why that when Mike Close straight up said abr copied his marble mold. they still uses his picture. and sells cheaper shittier molds. nobody freaked out about that.......


"Personally, I would like to see Kultureglass stop offering this design. Not all of us can afford patents, nor should we have to, and Vine shouldn't have to compete with a knockoff. This industry is growing, but that doesn't mean we should start stepping on others to get where we want to be. Work together. Kultureglass has plenty of other items to offer, he doesn't need to sell knockoffs."

And like isa24 said. Its a free country. He didnt patent it and changed to name so that he wasnt stepping on the other guys toes.

[istandalone24/7]

but they're completely different. other then they both hold pins...they're as different as ford and bmw (ford being the kulture, bmw being Vin's).

[istandalone24/7]

You're right, but the fact that he called it a vin-pin makes me think he got the idea by looking at vine's design. He has plenty of tools to offer us, why step on vine's toes? Vine has one thing, he doesn't need someone treading on his original design.

he changed it. yes it was in poor taste, but it's been rectified.

maybe NS needs to stop selling pomegranite or ruby because red elvis is so much better?

i'm honestly trying to see the logic here.

[PyroChixRock]

actually if a (trusted) vendor does something like this, drama or not, we (the customers) deserve to know.

yeah, and business peoples that actually have scruples will not blatantly copy someone else's design, be it "copywrited" or "trademarked" or whatever. it's just wrong.

i for one will pay the $25 or $30 more to get one that i know Mike Close made. simple as that.

Why is it ok for you in one instance and not the other?

[istandalone24/7]

because abr is the walmart of glass suppliers.
both vin and kulture are mom and pop type operations.

never before have i heard so much flak due to two similar items (when i say similar, i mean in function) being sold by two people.

there are so many hotshop/flamework tools on the market by tons of different makers. i don't see them being asked to bow out or eradicate a tool from their lineup.

[PyroChixRock]

I agree with all this thread. But im wondering why that when Mike Close straight up said abr copied his marble mold. they still uses his picture. and sells cheaper shittier molds. nobody freaked out about that.......


"Personally, I would like to see Kultureglass stop offering this design. Not all of us can afford patents, nor should we have to, and Vine shouldn't have to compete with a knockoff. This industry is growing, but that doesn't mean we should start stepping on others to get where we want to be. Work together. Kultureglass has plenty of other items to offer, he doesn't need to sell knockoffs."

And like isa24 said. Its a free country. He didnt patent it and changed to name so that he wasnt stepping on the other guys toes.

People are freaking out about it, and saying they will only buy from Mike. ABR has made a statement about it, and offered to talk with Mike about the situation.

Please, by all means, let us know, and we can change the situation no problem Mike.

I hope we hear soon about what they decide to do.

If Kulture came up with the idea on his own, why was he calling it a vin-pin? That's great he changed the name but why keep making the knock offs? Where are the people saying they will only buy the original in this situation?

[PyroChixRock]

because abr is the walmart of glass suppliers.
both vin and kulture are mom and pop type operations.

never before have i heard so much flak due to two similar items (when i say similar, i mean in function) being sold by two people.

there are so many hotshop/flamework tools on the market by tons of different makers. i don't see them being asked to bow out or eradicate a tool from their lineup.

Because they are both mom and pop shops, we should be more concerned, not less. We need to look out for each other.


It isn't just a tool, it's an original design and made for a single purpose. There are a ton of tools to cut glass, for example, but only one JAWS. If people started ripping off the JAWS design is that ok, cause hey there are tons of things that cut glass already?