new project/place to burn

[Pogo]

Haven't been really able to rock out the redmax consistently since i got it yet... always setting up here then there.... Here is my new project. A 5'x5'x10' long enclosed trailer.... Gonna build a back wall on the table top so it's like "L" to the roof - essentially creating a 3x3x5 (45 cubic-foot) chamber for working to be vented through the front floor of the trailer with 6" ducting... will secure oxy/prop to wall with ratcheting straps... also, gonna do some improvements on my kiln and place as shown.... got a 4 foot 2 bulb flouro hung just over the door..... tabletop height is 42" from ground and is 3 foot by 2 inches shy of 5 foot.
will use front 6x5x5 for keeping supplies, gas, etc... of course will wall mount speakers and hide cabling.... also, have a friend who is a master electrician who is gonna re-wire this thing eventually (rushing to get built now)

should be done with this thing soon enough and i can get torchin more permanently.... also, next time i drive to austin for a lesson, I'm takin this with me

Comments, questions, quips and calumny(google it) all accepted.

[TheGlassTree]

the flouro lighting is not so good for seeing the glass..... other than that cool idea...

[HOSS]

Sounds like a pretty good plan, having a permanent place to work is mucho importante. And having it be portable will be sweet!

Personally I'd want the bench against the far end (away from the doors), with the fan directly in front of your torch blowing out through the wall... but w/e works I spose.

[Pogo]

was gonna be up in there, till i thought about holding a piece straight up and blowing into it sans blowhose..... this way sky's the limit... ditto with flame cutting 4' tube... 5 wide and 5 tall would make it slightly difficult... need to get a tall ass bench though, don't wanna stand all day

[Pogo]

Also should mention that i'm gonna install a door in the front passenger side of this for ease of bottle swappin'.... and that I'm finally payin' for shit... my old man rolled the trailer like a year or so ago and we straightened it out.. so far the trailer is donation.. will see if he decides he wants some moolah for it.. fan was given to me... I got about $200 total now in parts, etc.

[HOSS]

Ahhhh... ok I get it now, that makes more sense. Do you know the CFM of the fan?

[Pogo]

am gonna have-ta (fantastic grammar) check on that... not sure the CFM rating on the fan, but know it came from some form of HVAC....It's pretty efficient.. will be 3 foot away and 3 foot up... damn... 1 sec for Pythagorean theorem..... four and quarter feet away... gonna seal the shit outta the edges on that workspace also, to help the efficiency of the vent system... Had a slightly larger squirrel cage but it was 240 and i want all 110 so I can drag cords anywhere... (generator in future.... blow glass while sipping pina koloniks(old cheech and chong reference) on the beach )

[HOSS]

am gonna have-ta (fantastic grammar) check on that... not sure the CFM rating on the fan, but know it came from some form of HVAC....It's pretty effecient.. will be 3 foot away and 3 foot up... damn... 1 sec for Pythagorean theorem..... four and quarter feet away... gonna seal the shit outta the edges on that workspace also, to help the efficiency of the vent system...

What if you built a wall right behind the bench and put the fan there instead? With an opening in the other end of the trailer somewhere (like an open side-door) I think you might get more effective venting of the work area?

(generator in future.... blow glass while sipping pina koloniks(old cheech and chong reference) on the beach )

Hey man, pick us up some more of that Fussy Pussy!

[Pogo]

What if you built a wall right behind the bench and put the fan there instead? With an opening in the other end of the trailer somewhere, I think you might get more effective venting of the work area?

care to expand this idea???? I've read it twice and can't see it...
I like little paint drawings too, might help clear it up.

[HOSS]

Actually your paint drawing is where the idea came from, it confuzzled my lil horsey brains.

Basically you'd be dividing the trailer into a front half and a back half with a plywood wall. Just imagine the white part of your drawing with the fan in it is right up against the back of the bench, instead of 4 feet away. Fan pulls clean air in from behind you, blows it into the little storage area with the tanks, then escapes out the side door.

[Pogo]

it is thats why i said the bench will make an "L" in post 1.... then, gonna put the fan in an enclosure attached to the back of the bench wall (ALSO HARDIBACKER), with 6" ducting going to the front of the trailer, then through the floor to prevent rain leaks.... 4 feet is a diagonal measurement... my bench is a full 3x5 of hardibacker... makes 3x3x5.

[Pogo]

Are you sayin that the airspace for exhaust needs to be closer to the size of hole for the intake (the bench not the fan)? I thought about venting out the door also, but say in 2 years i'm doin a show in location x and theres a bunch of scum hangin out wantin to nab what i've managed to cache away in the front half???? Is a 6" exhaust hole too inefficient?

[HOSS]

it is thats why i said the bench will make an "L" in post 1.... then, gonna put the fan in an enclosure attached to the back of the bench wall (ALSO HARDIBACKER), with 6" ducting going to the front of the trailer, then through the floor to prevent rain leaks.... 4 feet is a diagonal measurement... my bench is a full 3x5 of hardibacker... makes 3x3x5.

Ahhh ok, you got it then. I told you your drawing got me confuzzled. I thought the plan was to have the bench, then some empty space and mount the fan in the front wall of the trailer. Still don't get where the "L" comes in but thats ok, sounds like you got it figgered out.

I thought about venting out the door also, but say in 2 years i'm doin a show in location x and theres a bunch of scum hangin out wantin to nab what i've managed to cache away in the front half???? Is a 6" exhaust hole too inefficient?

Its definitely going to add a lot of static pressure, but if the duct is short and fan is strong enough it shouldn't really matter. But if you hooked it up with some 12" duct instead, that would be primo. What you're saying about the open door makes sense. Instead of going through the floor you could run it out the side and have a louver or something that will close to keep the rain out when you're not working, might be less in the way.

[Pogo]

"L" is an imaginary cross section of the two hardibackers. | _... (looking through the trailer from the drivers side)
It's only gonna be a half wall (top).


the infinite safety break makes me think everyone can see my vision.

but if the duct is short

define short. to go all the way to the front it'll take @15'. with 2 90 degree bends... i know that's gonna stretchin' it... i'm glad this is comin up now, though, cause i don't wanna patch the floor
will the burning debris test effectively judge the 6"?



hope you got room for this thing in your driveway hoss... The traveling circus is headin your way.

[HOSS]

Ah ok I get it now, sorry to make you re-explain so much. Now that I re-read it, you explained it right to begin with, I just didn't get it. But yeah that seems like a solid place to start, you can always make changes down the road if you need to.

define short. to go all the way to the front it'll take @15'. with 2 90 degree bends... i know that's gonna stretchin' it... i'm glad this is comin up now, though, cause i don't wanna patch the floor
will the burning debris test effectively judge the 6"?

Thats actually pretty long, and with 2 right angles... it might work for a while but end up burning out your fan. the shorter and straighter you can possibly keep it, the better, esp. if you're using the small duct.

The auralens site has a good calculator you can use to figure it out once you know the fan CFM, I don't really trust the smoke test... mine passes that but I know for sure its not really working as well as it should. That's a 14" 1500 cfm fan, and about 6 feet of 12" duct, 1 right angle. But the squirrel cage fans work better with ducting than the axial kind I've got. Next time I set up I'm doing it right.

hope you got room for this thing in your driveway hoss

No problemo, I've actually got a little mini-parking lot right outside my front door, about 50' x 20'. Not so sure about actually firing it up out there though, the neighbors who also share that little driveway/lot are some kind of rehab church group cult thing, and I don't want to have to explain what we're up to.

[Pogo]

wanted to vent straight down or straight out the wall, but didn't want exhaust to just blow back at me via the breeze.
damn... may be forced to go with what i have for now... I'm hopin "the box" will cause the system to be very efficient.

also gonna be REAL HARD gettin any info off that fan in its current state... maybe if i disassemble i can get a model number or somethin... before i re-wired it, it had an old two-prong plug that was like 6 inches long. gonna have to take a closer look....

[HOSS]

I think you're right, the box part of the setup should be great for directing the airflow. My current setup really isn't a good comparison, (or very good period, really.) But with all the back pressure a long piece of small duct would put on your fan, it might still end up not moving enough air to be effective. It really all depends on how strong the fan is, but either a bigger duct or shorter run would make it work better regardless, if you can manage it. A box of like 25' of 12" flex duct runs about $50. Not cheap, but not necessarily a killer either (unlike gold/silver fumes and carbon monoxide, which cost almost nothing but ARE a killer!)

Another idea might be to just say screw the duct entirely, have the fan blow directly into the storage space and just put a good sized vent hole at the front of the trailer. As long as your work area is sealed off from the front well enough that the air can't blow back out that way (close it up underneath the bench too), it won't have anywhere else to go but out the vent. This way you're getting max power from your fan, instead of bogging it down with duct. As far as exhaust blowing back at you, I'm not sure that having it a few feet farther away will really make much difference, if the wind is going the wrong way. But having it come out up high where it can dissapate rather than trapped down under the trailer where it can be pushed back and come up right in front of you, would probably be better.

I don't know, there's a lot of factors involved here lets give someone else who may be better versed in venting a chance to weigh in with a second opinion.

[FizZle]

looks sweet...the things we will do to blow glass...i love it...i agree with hoss though...use bigger ducting...the smaller the ducting the less cfm u will get...meaning it will be less effective...also i wouldnt duct out the floor...but rather the cieling...if you go out the cieling you will barely need any ducting...if you dont wanna go to a specialty metal store for 12 in duct atleast use 8 in which is available at all home improvement stores...hope you get it all finished soon...ill be lookin for u on the road next summer...we need to rage some pieces in the woods and put that to good use...

[Icarus]

I'm with everyone. 6" ducting is going to burn out that fan real quick, and probably won't move much air. Think of it this way. Let's say you're mouth is full of water which you need to get rid of. Let's say you have two options. You can use the size hose that they would use on a beer bong, or your can use a cocktail straw. Both are going to let you push the water out, but with the beer bong hose, it's practically going to flow out with very little work on your part. But with the cocktail straw, it's going to take a lot longer, and you're going to have to exert a lot of pressure to push that water out.

It's not a great explanation, and obviously the sizes are way out of proportion, but as an analogy, it sort of explains back pressure.

My thought it, since you're going to have a false wall (as I understand it), cut a hole into that false wall where you put in your fan (thought I'm envisioning a gable fan, though you could make it work with your squirrel cage). Then fab a duct out of sheet metal that leads up to a sheet metal collar mounted to your real wall. Put a louver on the outside of your real wall, and you're in business. It would be a straight shot from the fan to the exhaust hole, and you wouldn't have to wory about people sneaking in that hole (since it's covered. Also then, you don't have to worry about glass trash and other nasties collecting on the floor of your storage area, they would be vented out.

My explanation kind of sucks, but if you want, give me a ring, and I can talk with you about it in more detail. You've got my number, and i should be around all day Sunday.

Either way, congratulations on the set up. I was originally thinking about something like that before I moved, but I lived in a not necessarily bad neighborhood, but things went missing from our garage on a regular basis, and I didn't trust that much equipment just sitting out there.

[Pogo]

I appreciate all the comments and ideas... Will call McD Trailers (they built this thing locally) and try to get something to let me vent out the roof right above the fan, effectively removing the need for ducting..... that is if some sort of vent cap is available....