my progression

[paloob]

keep doing you, I'm completely with it. Some of the shops in the suburbs don't want to pay for quality glass that uses quality starting material because "people around here don't know shit about glass" - literally was told that by a shop owner. I merely ask for half of what it will retail for, and some shops don't want to pay that because they can get china shit for 4$ and sell it for 50$.. I've had a shop owner show me that as well. My favorite store is one that sells it for double what I ask (so I get 50%), and if I ask for less, they charge the customers less..

Don't listen to what Nomad says you should charge, he seems to just compare glass to what his sells for, even though he uses cheaper glass lol... which looks the part. I wonder if he's even getting 50% of what they're retailing for, or if he's getting bent over a barrel for cheap work to fill the 'cheap shelf' in the stores.. might explain why shops love him :P

[Nomad]

Yeah I do not get 50% of the retail price for my glass. I charge 20 hour plus materials. So the shop buys a $7 spoon and they charge $20 for it. Yes people love it and they buy them all the time.
I used to ask for 50% when I first started 15 years ago. I got it for a wile. But I learned I could make more money and stay busier if I charge them only $7 a spoon.

[Nomad]

A spoon from China is $5 and less. Most are about $2.50. A bubbler is about $12 each. So you figure out the markup. I have seen them marked up a lot in some areas. Like in NYC.

[Montoya]

Thanks for the tips Mattypo.
Put them to use last night but I want to get some yellows and greens today I hope.
Any idea how to get that electric blue like lightning? That's my next goal to get figured out.
Stoked I caught this gold last night!
Thanks again.

[Ray]

I like that gold look!

[Mattypo]

This was a light even coat of silver. After laying silver down use oxy flame until it's gone. Then use a bushy flame to bring it back. Do that a couple times then repeat with another light layer of silver

[Montoya]

Can't Rep you again yet but dude, that's beautiful.

[AndyH]

Montoya, are you talking about this?

[Nomad]

That was for my production. I just made some custom inside out stuff also for like $17 a 14mm GonG slide and $40 for a I/o Sherlock bubbler for a shop owner. I think they would get more then 50% markup also.

Yeah I do not get 50% of the retail price for my glass. I charge 20 hour plus materials. So the shop buys a $7 spoon and they charge $20 for it. Yes people love it and they buy them all the time.
I used to ask for 50% when I first started 15 years ago. I got it for a wile. But I learned I could make more money and stay busier if I charge them only $7 a spoon.

[Mattypo]

So I have been banging out prodo but I would like to spend a little more time on some pieces with attachments and what not. I suck at attaching marbles and shit. I made this sweet sherly and added a silver honeycomb marble I really liked to it thinking I would be able to sell it for more. Well after I added the marble and used my mini torch to get in everywhere and melt in it looked kind of bad. I don't think I am doing it the best way I see such clean attachments mine are terrible. After I pulled it out of the kiln the next morning one side of the marble where the turbo cobalt is was smooth and the other side of the marble was jagged. Hard to describe but I haven't seen it before on my glass. Heres a couple pics. Do you guys back your marbles and then add that color to the piece then heat both colors and connect? Any help is appreciated. Thanks for looking guys.

[James M]

Did you bridge your marble? I will get wierd things happening if I don't put a bridge on those big lunkers. Also I like to heat both pieces up to a rosy color then push slightly and then pull them apart a bit, if your glass is damn hot then often you don't really need to get the mini torch out, I do anyway. I don't usually back my mibs on pieces I tend to use the piece as the backing. Can't really see whats going on with the mib, those shirleys are looking sick though.

[Mattypo]

Thanks James yes I am bridging the marble. I had turbo cobalt on the back and got both pieces pretty hot and mashed together and pulled apart. Secured my bridge and went in with the mini. There is ridge where the transition from turbo cobalt to clear was. It was smooth when I put it in the kiln and when I removed it there was this ridge like it cracked but it's pretty solid. I don't know what happened it looks like the turbo cobalt expanded only on one side. I'll have to practice some more I guess. Thanks for your process and tips!

[Mattypo]

switched my center fire over to tanked oxy today and boy does it make a difference. going through have a tank a day now though but I immediately noticed a huge difference. my torch is hotter and I am getting better results completely. working on my shaping. just messing around trying to figure out what to do with this guy. also cut my prodo time down cranking these fume and honeycomb capped spoon out.

[gomilobster]

keep doing you, I'm completely with it. Some of the shops in the suburbs don't want to pay for quality glass that uses quality starting material because "people around here don't know shit about glass" - literally was told that by a shop owner. I merely ask for half of what it will retail for, and some shops don't want to pay that because they can get china shit for 4$ and sell it for 50$.. I've had a shop owner show me that as well. My favorite store is one that sells it for double what I ask (so I get 50%), and if I ask for less, they charge the customers less..

DISCLAIMER: I am possibly the last person who should be "telling" anyone anything about sales, or how to work a business.... but these are my unrequested thoughts on the matter anyways.

I pretty much take someone trying to imply my work is worth as much as some poor kid's sweat shop work from overseas as an insult. If someone told me "people around here don't know shit about glass" I would probably reply as I was closing my case something along the lines of "Well I guess you need to become a better salesman then... when you do give me a call!" Actually that would depend on how dragged out it was, like is the shop owner interested in becoming more educated about what they sell, are they interested in educating their customers? You have every right to be proud of what you do and the time and money and effort that goes into it.

If a shop owner wants to be in the business of selling manure, maybe they should work with farmers, and not own a glass shop. Manure mongers everywhere getting local artists to lower their prices while hiking things up past double on their shelves should be put OUT of business, not pandered to. I certainly wouldn't want one of them representing me as an artist and the money I would get would make me feel worse than working as a jizz mop using nothing but my tongue. If you live in a small town or a place with very little in the way of actual shops and that is the general attitude of the owner I could see it being difficult. It also might be an opportunity for someone to open a nice REAL glass shop, educate the customer, and destroy bad businesses (not to mention I am sure as soon as word got around you had the real deal, that other shop would either be forced to change or die).

One thing that has started to give me confidence about what I wanted for a piece was to weigh out everything I use (amount of frit, stringer in inside out, general milli chip weight, marble weight, tentacle weight, point/blowtube blank, etc etc. Figure out how much your exhaust, oxycons, homefill, kiln costs in electric a day, oxy/fuel cost... split that up between pieces too, then add what you want per an hour to that (I am starting at 15 and I will see what happens from there). That way you know and can even explain (or show depending on how you present things) what it cost you to make a piece in just supply cost alone and what you are asking for yourself (you put time, money, pain, etc etc into learning how to do what you do well).

If after showing someone the straight up figures and cost of operations they can either decide to be someone who will do business with you or a douche who wants to pay people less than minimum wage for their own profit. Obviously "you get more bees with honey than vinegar", and if one is trying to charge a full hour for a piece that should/would take most average skilled people half as long you might have trouble charging for that extra time. But if you can set an average or goal to meet in those time frames and work toward it (if a beginner or what not) you will still be easily paying for supply cost if not making a small profit until you get your target amount.

In either case, sorry for the long rant, but I wish more people were willing to walk out of shops trying to fuck us all over by shitting on our community and roots. I know some people have mouths to feed (not including their own) and bills and rent to pay (very few people want to be "homeless") however I can't help but think that if more people were willing to take that jump, in the long run it would be easier for all of us. Plus sometimes you might be surprised how someone might just say "Weeellll wait a second!!..." when yer reaching for the door, esp if you don't mouth off like I might.

[Yeef]

a lot of people aren't interested in the art. sad but true.

i just spent 5hrs working on a recycler for a friend of mine and scrapped everything but the can about 20 minutes ago, because it wasn't perfect. (stem seal got a little wonky and there was some distortion in the mouthpiece you could see in reflection..) my friend isn't a glass artist, and probably wouldn't have ever noticed the issues that went into my scrap bucket... i'm not willing to put that stuff out there with my name on it, though.

this is why it sucks being an artist. fuck art, let's all go be hedge fund managers.

most headshops here deal in functional glass, not art. (i realize the two are not mutually exclusive..) the one guy who was interested in putting my stuff in his shop was only willing to do it on consignment, because he's got the glass catalog hookup too. actually, he's got like 7 different companies' catalogs, and gave them to me for reference. "people like those rasta colors", he tells me.

he's not interested in art, he's interested in moving product. i gave him several rounds of fuckups he'd sell for a markup, advertising them as local, but i never gave him anything i'd put any time into. i never signed anything going his way, either. he offered me the 50% deal, but i can't imagine putting the time into a $300 piece and having to let it go for $150. you can't have a fucking 50% markup on an artist's work, especially not in central wisconsin.

i don't fault people for wanting to move product, buying cheap glass or even making super cheap glass to undercut other local artists. do whatever you think is right, and know that karma's watching. i was really upfront with the shop owner here, and told him straight up that i couldn't compete with the prices in his glass catalogs, and explained to them why, from a production perspective. i told him i was happy to give him my garbage, and he was fine with that. is that unscrupulous? well, when your customers are 19yo heads, what does unscrupulous even mean? for me, unscrupulous is bullshitting each other about the product, and trying to make a situation that jus' ain't happnin work. staying true is more than saying true. insert gratuitous cliche.

i know myself and many others that believe in the artist voodoo of the thing, though, that would rather not put out product in lieu of something really great, even if it means more fucking hot dogs. (god i hate hot dogs)(and sure, i fuck them, you fucking freak)

so yeah. nice rant. appreciated. don't stop knowing what you're worth, that's how soul bits get sold.

[Mattypo]

Got my first lox dewar in today. Shows it's 3/4 full and was venting off when it arrived. Also I was supposed to get a 180 liter dewar and recieved a 160. I'm new to kid, anyone with experience able to inform me? Is this normal??

[Mattypo]

working on these lately. they take a little while to make though. thinking 30 wholesale on these over color tubing 25 over clear. what do you guys think?

[itssteve]

Wow, that's really nice looking man. Keep it up

[Dan Kooper]

My LOX tank does not have that gauge.

[AndyH]

I'm curious how that gauge works. I always thought that LOX tanks worked the same as propane in that since most of the contents is a liquid you could only tell the overall fill amount by weight. I would have thought that the gauge would represent the psi range which it vents at as a full level.